Thinking of switching to N gauge... any advice?

[alexl102]

I've been collecting UK models in OO gauge for nearly 15 years. In that time I've built up a fleet of around 8-9 locomotives (though many others have passed through my care), 20+ carriages & wagons and plenty of track. Might not sound a lot for 15 years of collecting, but the main reason I haven't got more is quite simply that I've never actually had a permanent layout. I've simply had to set up for a day or so every few months, enjoy whilst I can and then pack away again, because we've never had space (small shunting layouts, though wonderful to watch and admire, don't tickle the itch for me).

 

I'm moving soon and will have to leave my OO collection in store at my parents' house, so I wondered whether it was worth trying to start a small second collection, in N gauge, in the hope that in my new house I might just have enough space to squeeze in a smaller layout.

 

I know barely anything about N gauge, so wondered if people could help with some advice. From a brief bit of research it looks like N gauge is a bit more expensive than OO second hand because there's less out there and less choice... is that a fair summary? I'd be aiming to start with something like a basic loop of track, an 0-6-0T like an LMS 3F or Hunslet Austerity  and a couple of coaches. I guess I'd also need a power supply - don't know what that would be like in 'N'.

 

• How much would I reasonably expect to pay for a small tank engine and some coaches, second hand?
• Experienced OO modellers often suggest that old Mainline & Airfix locos in that scale should be avoided as the split chassis design can be a problem. Is there anything similar that I should know in N gauge?
• Has anyone ever done N gauge starter sets?
• What is the N gauge equivalent of the standard OO 6'x4' layout - would it be 2'x3'?

 

What other advice would you give? Is it worthwhile or would I be wasting my time and money?

 

 

Thanks!

[The Johnster]

Now, while you are 'between' modelling projects, is a good time to spend in contemplation; when you've finished with your navel, start on railways.  Much depends on what you want from a layout, what aspect of the hobby gives you the most satisfaction. Is it running, (and does this mean watching trains going around or shunting them), is it scenery, is it running long trains at express speed, is it detailing things.  All these will have a bearing on the scale you choose.

 

I do not have any experience in 2mm, being firmly wedded to 4mm, but as a general opinion and taking your points in order, I'd suggest that:-

 

. N gauge stock costs around the same as it's 00 equivalent both secondhand and new.  The material saving to a manufacturer of the smaller model is offset by the smaller space and finer engineering needed to make it run well.

 

. Yes there is.  Older Grafar 0-6-0 chassis are very difficult to control at low speeds, current versions are much better.  Minitrix run well but are usually based on German locos and not to scale.

 

. As in 00, starter sets are fine but make sure all the items are what you want to use in the longer term, or it is an expensive way of starting.  The controllers are often very low quality.

 

. The N gauge equivalent of an 8x4 is an 8x4 with more track.

 

These are opinions and sweeping generalisations at best; we do not know what sort of room you are going to have available, or what your preferred period, area, or type of modelling (if any) is.

[davetheroad]

If you want a simple layout take a look at Kato Unitrack, a bit like Setrack but with ballast included. A plus is the points have the motors included and there are point switches to match

[D9020 Nimbus]

Farish do starter sets.

 

The more recent Farish models tend to be better runners than older ones. The newer 4F is much better than the "old" Farish models. The Farish Austerity is quite a good runner. Other steam options include the Dapol 57xx, 14xx, Terrier and Q1; Farish "Jinty" (there are old and new versions — new is better but the old is reasonable), 57xx. I'd avoid the Dapol Ivatt 2-6-2T, M7 and 45xx—these are almost always poor runners.

 

The equivalent of 6' x 4' is probably 4' x 2' but you might find a long, thin, layout might be better. Remember that first radius in N is 9" — the equivalent of 2nd radius in OO — and some larger engines will need 12" or so.

 

The main issue with Farish locos is "split gears" — diesels are more prone to this than steam, but the latter aren't always immune — spares for British production locos are fairly easy to obtain but you may have a long wait for spares for Chinese produced models.

[Chris M]

There are many questions but the fundamental one - what do you want your layout to do -has already been asked.

If you are doing dc the Gaugemaster controllers are fine for both N and OO and reasonably priced. My personal choice is to buy a separate transformer and hand held controller.

As for N gauge stock, I would say the newer the better. Minitrix is fine if you don’t mind huge pizza cutter flanges and models that don’t look much like what they are meant to be. All Lima stock is old and to a different scale so is largely best avoided but one or two items of rolling stock aren’t too bad. Old Farish locos seem to work for a long time and pull well. I haven’t bought any because, for me, they look too crude and not a lot like the real thing they are trying to represent. New Farish are extremely well detailed and seem to be quite robust. Some of the steam locos can’t pull as much as you might like them to. The diesels all seem fine. Farish does have a reputation for cracked gears. This is not really a problem as spares are readily available in most cases.

A lot of people moan about Dapol locos but all mine are working fine. Their outside cylinder steam locos have very delicate and therefore have very fragile valve gear and need to be handled with care. The shaft linking the motor in the tender to the drive wheels works very well but some people struggle to get them reconnected if they come apart. Their small prairie looks nice and can run ok with careful driving but the gearing is stupid giving it a ridiculously high top speed. Later models such as the 57xx are much better and all the Dapol diesels I have are very good. Dapol did set a high standard of detail and fine moulding work and all of their locos look very good indeed.

Union Mills make reasonably priced locos which have a good reputation for reliability and pull well. The downside is that they are not very well detailed when compared to Farish and Dapol; for instance they have moulded rather than separate handrails. Union Millsdo not have a web site but the guy who owns the business is well known for providing excellent service. The best thing is to phone him to see what he has.

 

I ran OO layouts for many years but sold everything about 18 years ago. I then took up G in the garden but found that it gets cold in the winter and took up N in 2013 as a winter hobby. I must say I love N gauge (despite what might sound like criticism above). You can get so much in a small space. I think the trick is to make sure you leave room for scenery. N is especially good for creating the look of a train running through the landscape. The choice of models is far less than OO but I see that as a good thing because there is less temptation to spend money.

 

My two layouts are quite different in character but may give you some thought starters.

The Ridgacre Branch which is a rather lightweight 44 inches by 27 inches. This is a little branchline and whilst it cannot accommodate big locos or long trains it gives plenty of operational interest.

 

 

 

Little Aller Junction is 7 ft by 3 ft 3 ins. It is my attempt to sort of emulate the real Aller Junction. There is no station which saves a lot of space but there is quadruple track and a junction which is great for watching the trains go by. I operate this in different eras.

1960

 

1963

 

1968

Edited September 2, 2018 by Chris M

[woodenhead]

Stick to the modern manufactured locos from Bachmann and Dapol. If you can, give yourself flexibility with DCC ready locos, it might narrow choice but if you decide later to go DCC then it will be easier.

 

Also try and look for NEM couplings as you can easily swap out for Dapol easishunt couplings for hands free operation.

 

I think you might find N secondhand is cheaper via EBay. I couldn't sell some of my almost new locomotives at £85 and seeing them much less in biding makes me think for a buyer there are bargains to be had.

 

I went to OO a couple of years back, I sold some N but I've kept the vast majority as I want to do a proper N layout sometime.

 

Dapols 45xx (not DCC ready) are nice little locos once run in, don't pay more than £40 for one though as Dapol were flogging them cheap for £50 a couple of years back. The Ivatt 2-6-2 is another nice but not DCC Dapol loco. Steer clear of the Dapol M7 it couldn't pull the skin off custard. On much the same chassi is the 14xx but that isn't so poor and you'll likely only have an auto coach on it.

 

All recent Farish stuff runs sweetly.

[daftbovine]

I would agree with the points made so far and would like to add a few more.

 

Avoid old Lima locos however cheap they may be, they don’t run well and the scale is very inaccurate - oversized locos and undersized coaches.

 

Although N takes up less space, try to avoid set track first radius points, most N gauge steam locos are happier on second radius points and the manufacturers often recommend second radius as the minimum for their locos.

 

Don’t be tempted to use an old controller for the newer models especially not a feedback controller, I’ve found the controllers that come with the Farish sets to be perfectly adequate.

 

Peco have produced a bookazine - The Peco Guide to N Gauge Modelling which contains a lot of useful information.

[The Johnster]

I would also recommend Gaugemaster if you are going DC.

 

My main objections to N are the oversize couplers, overscale height rails, and pizza cutter flanges on older models, but more modern stuff is making amends to all these problems.  Paint the sides of your rails dark brown to disguise the height and ballast up to sleeper top level.

 

I'd suggest avoiding secondhand locos or track unless you have a bit of experience in fettling up and repairing stuff; ask yourself why the seller doesn't want the item if he's not a dealer!  You'll maybe (and possibly maybe not) save money, but you'll spend a lot of time getting the best out of some of what you've bought; this comment is based on experience in 4mm, and working on mechanisms is harder in the smaller size.  Stock is not so fraught, but avoid Lima as they are not to the same scale as other UK outline, and much of the freight stock is based on European prototypes with wheelbases much too long for steam age UK use.  If modern image is your bag, few of these models will interest you anyway.

[F-UnitMad]

.... in the hope that in my new house I might just have enough space to squeeze in a smaller layout.

 

... I'd be aiming to start with something like a basic loop of track, an 0-6-0T like an LMS 3F or Hunslet Austerity  and a couple of coaches.

 

What other advice would you give? Is it worthwhile or would I be wasting my time and money?

 

 

Thanks!

Given what you've said about what sort of layout you'd want, I'd suggest familiarising yourself with the "Warren Branch" layout that was built by Editor Chris Ellis in the old Airfix Model Trains magazine, Jan - Sept 1980 issues.

To help, there's a post here on RMweb that has the original trackplan, on a 3ft x 2ft board:- http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129615-currently-nameless-long-term-n-gauge-project/?p=3163325

 

It may look like 'just' a simple oval and some sidings, but it was a very clever design that could be operated as a 'serious' end-to-end layout, as well as just being able to let a train chase it's tail. It has far more operational potential than most average 'train set' oval plans.

[yelrow]

Hornby (Arnold) N gauge, do a good starter set, as do Bachmann. john

[Right Away]

2mm scale can offer significant advantages where space is at a premium; simply observing the longer trains that can be operated can be very satisfying.

 

There are other issues which must also be considered. For example, the smaller rolling stock can prove quite "fiddly" for large hands when performing maintenance especially on locomotives.

 

N gauge RTR examples of recent years are very realistic indeed with good detail for their size. But it is this size and the minute detail given to these models that can be difficult to appreciate for modellers whose vision has become less acute.

It was for this reason that I made the decision to revert to 4mm scale a few years ago. Nevertheless, I am constantly amazed at the accuracy which modellers can achieve, proving that the size of N gauge does not have to be a compromise.

 

With regards to actual costs, it would appear that the smaller gauge is not that much cheaper than 00 for new stock.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Right Away

[Chris M]

Osbornes do their own sets

https://www.osbornsmodels.com/train-sets-61-c.asp

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Experienced OO modellers often suggest that old Mainline & Airfix locos in that scale should be avoided as the split chassis design can be a problem. Is there anything similar that I should know in N gauge?!

  First time out, don't even think about s/h. You really don't want to start out struggling with something that has been sold on for a reason.

 

Select for new purchase a loco (or locos) with a rep for good performance, that you can see demonstrated in the shop and choose the one that runs most to your liking. Use that loco to gain experience of the 'how to' of good operation in N gauge. Your experience with OO is still relevant, but you need to find out how the smaller scale works for you by 'hands on'.

[justin1985]

Some really good advice here.

 

If you're starting out from scratch, it's much better to stick to "new generation" stock. It's probably pretty clear by now that you kind of have to know your way around which models are good and which are old generation, or problematic designs. While there are exceptions, sticking to the newer style packaging from both Farish and Dapol wouldn't be a bad rule of thumb for avoiding the old generation Farish models or the problematic early Dapol steam locos. For Farish that means boxes which are black with a solid yellow section (old ones had several thin yellow lines) and for Dapol it's blue/silver boxes, rather than purple.

 

For track, if you're starting from scratch, the KATO system would probably be a better bet. It's miles better than PECO's SetTrack, and almost as good as the PECO "streamline", which is much harder to lay.

 

The sets linked to at Osborne's (I think Gaugemaster also sell them) are usually Dapol rolling stock with KATO track and controller - a really good combination.

 

The new style Farish 4F and Jinty steam locos would both be ideal for a beginner, and I think both are, or have recently been, available in starter sets (with own-brand versions of PECO SetTrack style track).

 

The only think you'll find lacking in N are some of the retailer exclusive models that becoming more common these days. As a general rule, anything that is in the Bachmann OO range is pretty likely to also appear in Farish N (eventually) and models in the Hornby OO range tend to get made in N by Dapol. Obviously there are exceptions, but a reasonable rule of thumb.

 

Justin

[dasatcopthorne]

Don't do it!!

[sp1]

As regards width : it seems to be recommended that 4’ x 2’6’’ is preferable, rather than 4x2’ for a ‘roundy roundy’ to allow for curve radius (a little bit more than the recommended minimum) otherwise you may struggle depending on choice of prototype.

Kato Track- yukk! Similar qualities to Hornby Dublo tinplate...( just my opinion) - it looks horrible!! Peco code 55 , if nicely ballasted and weathered looks much nicer, and that is before you look at alternatives such as ‘Finetrax’

Setrack is horrible, even though’ Unitracck’ is easy to assemble (that is about the only thing going for it!).

[Steamport Southport]

If you are going into it as a reasonably priced option then I think you might be a bit disappointed. N gauge is anything but cheap.

 

If money isn't a factor then I don't think you could go wrong with something like this.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/182013/Graham_Farish_370_185_A_Day_at_the_Races_Train_set/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

 

Jason

[woodenhead]

If you are going into it as a reasonably priced option then I think you might be a bit disappointed. N gauge is anything but cheap.

 

If money isn't a factor then I don't think you could go wrong with something like this.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/182013/Graham_Farish_370_185_A_Day_at_the_Races_Train_set/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

 

Jason

Only if you are a sucker for lined green 3MTs (yes I have one but not from the set).

 

I'm getting all sentimental now for my N gauge stuff, I need to crack on with OO first.

[alexl102]

[i'm the OP]
Wow - thank you everyone for a set of responses that have really outweighed my greatest expectations. I really, really appreciate the time each person has taken to respond. I'm going to take time to read through everything properly and thoroughly, and weigh it all up before deciding how to proceed.

 

With regards to the type of layout, I'd be thinking of modelling based on a larger preserved railway, but initially just happy to have something to go round and round and make up some different formations with.

 

Thanks once again everyone.

[Karhedron]

• How much would I reasonably expect to pay for a small tank engine and some coaches, second hand?
• Experienced OO modellers often suggest that old Mainline & Airfix locos in that scale should be avoided as the split chassis design can be a problem. Is there anything similar that I should know in N gauge?
• Has anyone ever done N gauge starter sets?
• What is the N gauge equivalent of the standard OO 6'x4' layout - would it be 2'x3'?

What other advice would you give? Is it worthwhile or would I be wasting my time and money?

 

Buying locos second hand is always a bit risky. You won't know ahead of time if you are getting a bargain or a dud. Coaches are generally safer as there is little to go wrong with them. Locos tend to fall into the following categories:

 

1. Graham Farish Poole models. These are the original production models from when the company was based in the UK. They have cast bodies and shiny wheels with large flanges. Whilst you can get some good runners, they look pretty crude by modern standards and I recommend avoiding them.

 

2. Graham Farish Bachmann models. These models were produced by Bachmann after they took over the Graham Farish range and moved production to China. They feature the same bodies but generally with better paint application. They also have finer darkened wheels. If budget is your priority, this would probably be the minimum standard to consider.

 

3. Modern Graham Farish models. These are all-new products and are generally well designed. Examples of small tank engines include the BR 3MT, GWR 6400 pannier tank and LMS Jinty. If you can get something like this at a good price, you should be well satisfied.

 

4. Early Dapol tank engines. The M7, GWR small Priaire and Ivatt tank engine were some of Dapol's earliest models. Whilst they look good, they had high gearing which made them hard to control at sensible speeds. The Prairie and the Ivatt were also prone to having the valve gear come off. I would probably avoid these unless you particularly want them as prototype models.

 

5. More recent Dapol tank engines. Everything Dapol has produced since their SR Terrier is much better. The Terrier and GWR Panniers are very good.

 

N Gauge is more than half the size of 00 gauge. The tightest curves in 00 are 15" radius but the tighest in N gauge are 9" (which would be around 18" in 00 gauge). For this reason you cannot simply take most 00 plans and halve them. If you want a continuous run layout in N gauge, I would suggest that 4'6" x 2'6" (135cm x 75cm) is probably the smallest you should consider. This will give you space for a decent oval rather than the smallest possible oval with sidings and scope for some scenic development.

[DCB]

I acquired an N gauge layout (from a skip! yes literally) and bought a loco and some stock to test it, but it was simply too small and fiddly for me.

I think the layout was 4ft 6" X 2ft 3" which was a nice size, Actually portable unlike a 6 X 4.  I still have the baseboard so will check when I can actually get to the back of the shed, I have an idea Dapol recommend 12" as a minimum radius so the 6 X 4 (3X2) sort of needs to be 2ft 3" X 3ft 3" better still the exact size of the dining room table. 

 

That way after dinner while the wife washes up you can fish the layout out from behind the settee, pop it on the table and play trains oblivious to what your guests, family, the mother in law is yattering on about. 

 

I would agree with comments about controllers, use a proper N gauge unit with a low amperage cut out. My OnTrack is barely 12 volts and less than 1/2 amp and very kind to N gauge mechs. Some of the 00 controllers are 19 volts and over an Amp so horses for courses and N gauge power units are generally cheaper than 00 anyway.

[Karhedron]

Dapol recommended a minimum of 2nd radius (10.5") for some of their tender engines but their tank and diesel engines are OK with 1st. Tender locos on tight curves seem to vary. I have a Dapol Brittania which does not like 1st radius curves but a 2884 which is fine on them despite having a longer coupled wheelbase.

 

As a general rule of thumb, you should try to make your curves as generous as possible in the space available rather than trying to fit in the tightest curves possible. As well as running better, most trains look better on wider curves. It helps to make them look less like a trainset.

 

Another good thing to do is to make the curves on your oval continuous rather than having 2 semi-circles at each end with a stretch of straight between them. This is only possible if you use flexible track rather than set track so may or may not appeal to you.