Hornby Signature Train Sets and Sovereign Train Packs

[BWsTrains]

TBH the best deal I ever got was a Hornby Train pack, R1184 (still current at £199). I paid £125 retail during the Halcyon discount days, got a lovely Hall (OK - just TTS), eLink which is superb for letting the grandchildren loose with DCC, a 3 Pullman Coach set I on-sold for a good price and a whole basic track set that went to my son to start off his layout.

 

Now thats what I reckon was a bargain bundle!

 

Colin

Edited September 28, 2018 by BWsTrains

[Trains4U]

It may be worth pointing out, that in regards to some of these packs, I do agree that they will struggle to sell.

for example, I haven't ordered any of the class 71 packs or Adams radial packs.

 

I've had to sell 71s at a loss (even after the huge discounts from Hornby) as they just do not shift.

 

The market for both models was overestimated and duplication of manufacture really hasn't helped

 

I've ordered what I believe will be good value for customers, and what I believe I can sell.

 

Repackaging and matching complimentary products will help to drive sales and clear this old stock, plus, there are other means at my disposal of adding value to these items and making them more saleable.

[NIK]

Hi,

 

The train sets appear to be called Signature and the train pack Sovereign.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Legend]

You know what? At the end of the day LD is going to have to go back on his grand plan and sell these at a discount. Why ? Well no one wants them at their original price , so that’s the only way to shift them. He’s going to look pretty stupid with a warehouse stacked high, which presumably costs him money in storage charges (back to these high distribution costs), as the company runs out of working capital. Somethings got to give. Hopefully learning from past experience they will offer discounts to their retail customers to shift them

 

The 71 was a poor choice of model to make . Even worse to bring out a second batch. There was never going to be a huge demand for an uninspiring box like loco restricted mainly to South East England . The Southern enthusiasts may be vocal looking for one, but in the wider market these are not particularly useful models.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Legend

[adb968008]

You know what? At the end of the day LD is going to have to back on his grand plan and sell these at a discount. Why ? Well no one wants them at their original price , so that’s the only way to shift them. He’s going to look pretty stupid with a warehouse stacked high, which presumably costs him money in storage charges , as the company runs out of working capital. Somethings got to give. Hopefully learning from past experience they will offer discounts to their retail customers to shift them

Or refinish them.

In the world of expensive models and small production runs, I would have thought there could be justification in a spray booth and Tampo print machine in the UK.

 

It could be used to refinish these (at least weathering), but in future liveries order them from China in batch unnumbered, and do their own numbering in Margate as limited releases in the UK.. i’m thinking bread and butter locos and coaches like mk1/2’s, diesels, Black 5’s etc.

 

I believe Dapol did something similar to move Terriers some years back, and the Class 52 is a very good example of this.

Edited September 28, 2018 by adb968008

[Legend]

Or refinish them.

In the world of expensive models and small production runs, I would have thought there could be justification in a spray booth and Tampo print machine in the UK.

It could be used to refinish these (at least weathering), but in future liveries order them from China in batch unnumbered, and do their own numbering in Margate as limited releases in the UK.. i’m Thinking bread and butter locos and coaches like mk1/2’s, diesels, Black 5’s etc.

I believe Dapol did something similar to move Terriers some years back, and the Class 52 is a very good example of this.

Yep good point . Would work for some models , but not the 71s where I think saturation point is past. A new number or rehash of livery will do nothing to shift them

[adb968008]

Yep good point . Would work for some models , but not the 71s where I think saturation point is past. A new number or rehash of livery will do nothing to shift them

Depends how you spin it, a 71001 in NRM with gloss finish (to cover how it was renumbered) - code 3 finished product might attract a few.

But I agree the reason why it’s still here is volume.

I have 5 class 71’s.

 

I actually could be in the market for this set as I have only 1 tops one, and no K type Pullman’s.

But it’s so far down my interest list, it would be an accidental purchase, on a day with spare cash when looking at a Bargain.

 

I paid £159 for my NRM Gloss 71.. what I mug I was, as I’ve 3 others for sub £80.

[JSpencer]

The 71 was a poor choice of model to make . Even worse to bring out a second batch. There was never going to be a huge demand for an uninspiring box like loco restricted mainly to South East England . The Southern enthusiasts may be vocal looking for one, but in the wider market these are not particularly useful models.

 

Even me, a big suppoter of the South East.... I find having 3 of them is enough. If they drop much further, I may get another to do a silverfox class 74 conversion but right now i need my pennies for the H1, H2, P class, B4s, Nelson, additional H class that are coming/came out this year and next year sees those pricy Bachmann HAPs.

 

When they did a fire sale on BILs and HALs, I increased my number of those from 2 to 5 and there were still other numbers and liveries at reduced prices I could have brought to increase that number further, some can be found now, 2 years on. But I really cannot run more than 2 of these on the layout at any one time so there is little point in having 8 of them.

 

LD is struggling with stock issues from before his time. This to me states that Hornby needs an effective pre-order system process to get a good grasp on how many they should produce and want at least 80% sold to pre-orders to be viable.

[adb968008]

remove the bodies and do a class 74.

 

Seriously though this could be an opportunity for a kit builder, like OO works to make a chassis deal on a lot and spin up an exclusive run of professional painted / finished Silverfox bodies.

 

Given the price of this set, I think next year it may be closer to this scenario anyway if they are still in the Hornby warehouse.

 

It’s clear a rtr 74 is never coming, the chassis is a match and I doubt Hornbys stock of them will fly out of the door.

Edited September 28, 2018 by adb968008

[brushman47544]

Combining slower selling models and selling them as a package at a reduced price is not new. Hornby has done it in the past and some retailers such as, as it happens KMRC, with their limited editions.

 

If it produces extra sales - perhaps even if only from the R number collectors - is that a bad thing? And at least it will hopefully mean that Hornby will not offload overstocked items at rock bottom prices which has so alienated smaller retailers in particular who still have unsold stock bought at the original price.

[jjb1970]

I’m reminded of Shakespear’s famous lines – “What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other word would smell as sweet”.

 

Or as it might alternatively be said, a discount by any other name is still a discount. Despite what LD might have said, clearly Hornby is trying to shift slow moving stock by offering attractive deals by bundling items. Personally I’d rather they offered a normal discount, my understanding was that the issue for retailers was Hornby fire sales directly to consumers, if they offered these items to the trade at a good discount to clear stock I’m not sure there would be such objection as both retailers and end consumers could benefit.

[The Stationmaster]

It may be worth pointing out, that in regards to some of these packs, I do agree that they will struggle to sell.

for example, I haven't ordered any of the class 71 packs or Adams radial packs.

 

I've had to sell 71s at a loss (even after the huge discounts from Hornby) as they just do not shift.

 

The market for both models was overestimated and duplication of manufacture really hasn't helped

 

I've ordered what I believe will be good value for customers, and what I believe I can sell.

 

Repackaging and matching complimentary products will help to drive sales and clear this old stock, plus, there are other means at my disposal of adding value to these items and making them more saleable.

 

The interesting thing about this is that you, asa. retailer, are allowed to split them - contrary to Hornby's normal T&Cs where anything split out of a set immediately loses any sort of Hornby guarantee/replacement etc.

You know what? At the end of the day LD is going to have to go back on his grand plan and sell these at a discount. Why ? Well no one wants them at their original price , so that’s the only way to shift them. He’s going to look pretty stupid with a warehouse stacked high, which presumably costs him money in storage charges (back to these high distribution costs), as the company runs out of working capital. Somethings got to give. Hopefully learning from past experience they will offer discounts to their retail customers to shift them

 

The 71 was a poor choice of model to make . Even worse to bring out a second batch. There was never going to be a huge demand for an uninspiring box like loco restricted mainly to South East England . The Southern enthusiasts may be vocal looking for one, but in the wider market these are not particularly useful models.

 

As I said yesterday on another thread in Hornby land I don't see how Hornby will shift some of their surplus stock without discounting it (because the market is sated - the 'King' being a good example).  So we'll get a bit of this instead but some things, like the 71, probably still won't shift.

[The Stationmaster]

I’m reminded of Shakespear’s famous lines – “What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other word would smell as sweet”.

 

Or as it might alternatively be said, a discount by any other name is still a discount. Despite what LD might have said, clearly Hornby is trying to shift slow moving stock by offering attractive deals by bundling items. Personally I’d rather they offered a normal discount, my understanding was that the issue for retailers was Hornby fire sales directly to consumers, if they offered these items to the trade at a good discount to clear stock I’m not sure there would be such objection as both retailers and end consumers could benefit.

It was also Hornby fire sales to a very limited selection of retailers I think.  The fire sales direct to consumers had ended before that and we're repeated although they no doubt started the rot.

[The Johnster]

I think this is evidence of Hornby's continued commitment to the trains set, to be expanded for further xmases and birthdays with track packs and train packs on the pre-printed track mat.  How successful this will be in marketing terms and how profitable I am in no position to say, but if it's a way of disposing of slow moving stock it may not make them a lot of money as such, just clear shelf space.  There are costs involved in repacking the items.  

 

It will have no impact on my modelling, but good luck to them!

[Pandora]

These sets are for the  general public,  the general public will buy them  from bricks and mortar outlets as safe choice christmas and birthday presents  for children and will not be delving into the specialised world of Hattons or Rails etc.

Slow moving items in the sets? Probably,  but a welcome change from when Hornby would have a retailer fire sale,  then once the retailers shelves were groaning with fire sale stock,  dropping the online prices to undercut the retailers  who have been lumbered with stock they could not move.

[Bulleidboy100]

These sets are for the  general public,  the general public will buy them  from bricks and mortar outlets as safe choice christmas and birthday presents  for children and will not be delving into the specialised world of Hattons or Rails etc.

Slow moving items in the sets? Probably,  but a welcome change from when Hornby would have a retailer fire sale,  then once the retailers shelves were groaning with fire sale stock,  dropping the online prices to undercut the retailers  who have been lumbered with stock they could not move.

 

I know my place!

 

"General Public - ordinary people in society, rather than people who are considered to be important or who belong to a particular group" 

[Steamport Southport]

The 71 was a poor choice of model to make . Even worse to bring out a second batch. There was never going to be a huge demand for an uninspiring box like loco restricted mainly to South East England . The Southern enthusiasts may be vocal looking for one, but in the wider market these are not particularly useful models.

 

I beg to differ that it was a poor choice to make.

 

The only problem was there was a rival model announced just as it was near completion. Even "popular" models such as LNER B1s, Royal Scots and BR 4MT 4-6-0s struggle when there is a rival.

 

 

 

Jason

[JSpencer]

Of course, it could be a new policy. Instead of defining each year new train sets (other than the obvious big names using Railroad standard stuff), they take last years unsold stuff and stick them into delux boxes with delux names.

 

I'm glad they give shops the right to break them down if needed.

 

I rest skeptical in that I know from experience, high end luxury train sets did not sell even from a big shifter like the Signalbox where I worked. Smokey joe and 3 wagons, we could shift easily.

They will probably have to adjust the price further downwards even it it means no margin in the end. The purpose hopefully to bring new people into the hobby.

[YesTor]

I’m not sure why there is so much cynicism...

 

Agreed.  If it helps clear dead-stock and keep Hornby in business then I don't see a problem? 

 

 

Meanwhile on ebay, there are:

17 R3374 for sale, and 7 sold, all 7 were less than £90.

8 R4739 for sale, 1 sold under £46

7 R4741 for sale, 1 sold under £46

 

So I can buy it all for c£180 new, and in the last 3 months there’s not many of them actually sold.

 

eBay isn't the 'be all and end all' of trading.  These sets are clearly aimed at a different market and in the run-up to Christmas I'm sure these sets will appear in what remaining High Street toy stores there are and be visible to a fresh and potentially uninformed audience.  This seems like a very wise move in an attempt to clear what is effectively dead stock.  Any sensible business in any marketplace would do exactly the same.  In fact they would be crazy not to.

Edited September 28, 2018 by YesTor

[blueeighties]

Shambles. No matter what Hornby seem to be doing, and this has been the situation for a few years now, sales continue to plummet, whilst stock and overheads don't. Something has to give soon.

[steve1023]

If Hornby had packaged the 71 with blue/grey Mk1s they may have enticed me....

[Steamport Southport]

 

I’m not sure why there is so much cynicism...

 

My problem isn't the price or the concept. Just the odd selections. No wonder newcomers get confused about what goes with what when the manufacturers are getting it wrong.

 

 

An express passenger locomotive that spent almost it's entire career on expresses between London and East Anglia with three PO wagons and a couple of BR wagons.

 

A goods engine with four BR Mark Ones.

 

Why not swap the vehicles around? Put a couple of Mark Ones in the B17 set and a handful of wagons in the J15 one and it makes much more sense. 

 

 

 

Jason

[jonathan452]

If Hornby had packaged the 71 with blue/grey Mk1s they may have enticed me....

Or repainted the Pullmans blue/grey as in the last years of the Golden Arrow.

[The Stationmaster]

Shambles. No matter what Hornby seem to be doing, and this has been the situation for a few years now, sales continue to plummet, whilst stock and overheads don't. Something has to give soon.

 

As the latest Annual Report shows they are getting some of the overheads down at long last albeit far too late in my view.  

 

However year-on-year sales have fallen over the edge of a cliff from £47.4 million last year down to £35.7 million this year although there are a number of widely differing reasons for this fall varying from no fire sale to - probably far more importantly and definitely critically - continuing supply problems especially in the model railway area.  Of course reduced sales don't necessarily mean reduced profitability but in Hornby's case it has with 2018 showing even bigger losses than 2017 just about whatever way you care to measure the losses in money terms.

Edited September 30, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[dibber25]

Or repainted the Pullmans blue/grey as in the last years of the Golden Arrow.

 

Hornby does not have the correct Pullman cars for the 'Golden Arrow' with Class 71 haulage, whatever colour they were painted. However, these sets are aimed at customers who either don't know that, or who don't mind that the cars aren't correct. Repainting finished models is not usually a practical proposition due to original colours and lettering showing through. Also, the model would need to be sent back to China, dismantled, painted and re-assembled. The costs involved in all that would make it a pointless exercise. This looks to be simply a bid to move some excess stock. It shouldn't be confused with an attempt to solve all Hornby's problems with one single 'silver bullet' solution. (CJL)