A New Hope - Great Model Railway Challenge benefits

[Pacific231G]

I

 

My only real gripe was actually with the Manufacturers, why oh why weren't there any adverts for Model Railways in any of the programmes advert breaks?? surely this would have been a grand opportunity for the likes of Hornby, Bachmann, Peco et al to advertise the stuff that the Modellers were actually using!!! Someone in the Advertising dept of these manufacturers wants shooting, or at least a kick up the jacksy   

 

I've not noticed any adverts around Bake Off for self raising flour, eggs or even cookware nor, and perhaps more to the point, for supermarkets . You get a bit of that on the specialist channels- bike adverts around Eurosport's  Tour de France coverage for example- but it's very limited and very specific to a partucular segment of the audience who are your potential customers but one you know is there. What you don't get are the tourist departments of various French regions running adverts for themselves when the Tour is going through their area, Only an idiot pays for advertising when someone is giving it for free. .

 

You may assume that marketing departments are asleep on the job (all of them....really? ) but it's probably far more cost effective to let the TV series create the interest in the minority of its viewers who may be potential customers that leads them to buy a magazine or go to an exhibition and make sure your presence is felt there. That way you're reaching an audience who have already pre-selected themselves by showing a particuar level of interest. Even that though has to be subject to an ROI (return on investment) analysis which, amongst other things, is why manufacturers may not take stands at some of the shows you might expect them to be at. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Pacific231G

[Robin2]

That said, all the airtime in the world won't make a lot of difference unless there are sufficient entry-level models to enable people to try the hobby for themselves without significant outlay.

Never mind "sufficient". As far as I can see there is none that is aimed at an adult customer.

 

...R

[Legend]

The difference though is that the model railway magazines are aimed at people who are already in the hobby, whereas GMRC is aimed at people who aren't.

 

And if the hobby is to continue to thrive, Hornby et al need to be able to bring new people into the hobby.

 

That said, all the airtime in the world won't make a lot of difference unless there are sufficient entry-level models to enable people to try the hobby for themselves without significant outlay.

Ironically something like the Hornby Yearbook that they had out a few years ago , which contained details of their new models and was available at WH Smith would be a useful marketing device. It might help the complete newcomer from interest in the TV program to transition into the hobby . I think you can forget people settling for an oval of track a loco and a few trucks going round and round . With the tablet generation expectations are higher than that. So something that shows what can be done on a 6*4 or 8*4 board would be useful.

 

A significant barrier to entry, as Scottish Modeller has found, is baseboard construction , so I also think there’s an opportunity for someone to supply simple modular baseboards .

 

There was a really good little book out dating back to 1990 “Build a Model Railway layout” by Dave Lowery . It showed you how to build a layout I think 8*4 but significantly it was interesting to operate , while relatively simple had a wow factor which was a double track terminus . I used the techniques to build my baseboards for my loft layout (pretty standard but well explained). The track formation for the terminus is still in use on my layout. It was setrack even using the Hornby R numbers. It had an incline , oval, town scene even a faller road system . An updated version of this in colour and using latest products and techniques I think would be very useful. If they could buy preformed baseboards even better, as I really think people are put off building these. And of course these days you’ve got great scenic products from Woodland Scenics , Static grass etc

 

But the point is this book showed a route to get an interesting model railway for the beginner. That’s what’s needed now. It’s possibly too late for this series with Christmas fast approaching and presents already bought. More than TV adverts I think a book like this generally available and in model shops would be useful . Of course if it was mentioned in the program as being available, even better

Edited December 13, 2018 by Legend

[Dunsignalling]

The difference though is that the model railway magazines are aimed at people who are already in the hobby, whereas GMRC is aimed at people who aren't.

 

And if the hobby is to continue to thrive, Hornby et al need to be able to bring new people into the hobby.

 

That said, all the airtime in the world won't make a lot of difference unless there are sufficient entry-level models to enable people to try the hobby for themselves without significant outlay.

 

There are very few hobbies one can get into without "significant outlay", even if you want to go rambling you'll need a decent pair of boots and some good waterproofs.

 

Any that require the acquisition of equipment are expensive to a greater or lesser extent - look at the cost of angling, photography or cycling. Many people get initially into those via second-hand purchases or hand-me-downs from friends or relatives who are either packing it in or upgrading.

 

The initial capital cost of getting into model railways is mitigated by relatively controllable ongoing costs so long as one can acknowledge the differences between "I need", "I want" and "that's nice" and apply some self-discipline accordingly. If you can't, you effectively become a collector, and that has always required deep pockets.

 

I don't think there are many new entrants who woke up one day thinking, "I think I'll have a go at model railways". Most hang around the fringes, visiting exhibitions  for a year or two, becoming casual contributors to club activities etc, to get a feel for things, neither of which need incur huge expenditure.  

 

Once they decide to make a move, they may well have acquired a mentor or two and picked up enough knowledge to go to swapmeets with the ability and confidence to recognise and avoid a dud loco. As with cameras, even entry-level models don't come cheap, and you can get a bigger choice and/or better specification second-hand for the same or less money.

 

There was a boom in youngsters becoming interested in railways, real and model, through the 1950s and much of the 1960s. That's currently, with sad inevitability, working it's way out of the system so, for the next decade or two, there are likely to be more people leaving the hobby than joining it.

 

Consequently, there are thousands of high quality models out there at swapmeets or on eBay for Railroad prices or less if one is prepared invest some time looking.

 

What's never going to be on offer, and never has been, is a way in using all new gear for next to nothing. My first proper train set cost my dad a significant chunk of a week's wages and I didn't get one until I'd been using some hand-me-down Hornby tinplate for long enough to convince him that my wanting one wasn't a passing fad.

 

John

Edited December 13, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[RJS1977]

Up to the 1980s, the Hornby catalogue included a section on how to build a layout (using Hornby components of course, but also advising on baseboard construction etc).

[Dunsignalling]

Never mind "sufficient". As far as I can see there is none that is aimed at an adult customer.

 

...R

Never has been, I'd suggest.

 

I'd be interested in what you might consider "entry level for adult customers". Presumably cheaper but what would you be willing to forgo in return?   More robust? The truly "ham-fisted" are probably better off going for the kid's stuff (or ancient Hornby Dublo) anyhow. Maybe scale models (of any sort) can never really be their "thing".

 

Entry level has traditionally meant child-level and Hornby, the only maker that really goes in for "entry level" has spent a couple of decades unsuccessfully trying to work out what (apart from Thomas vs non-Thomas) might constitute the difference. 

 

Most "adult customers" want "state of the art" products in most areas of life, which always means expensive and often means delicate. Look at the multiple many people are willing to pay for a highly sophisticated phone over a more basic one that still has the capability to deliver every function they actually use.

 

Why should model railways be any different?.

 

John

Edited December 13, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Phil Parker]

The difference though is that the model railway magazines are aimed at people who are already in the hobby, whereas GMRC is aimed at people who aren't.

 

And if the hobby is to continue to thrive, Hornby et al need to be able to bring new people into the hobby.

 

That said, all the airtime in the world won't make a lot of difference unless there are sufficient entry-level models to enable people to try the hobby for themselves without significant outlay.

 

Which means your return on investment for a magazine advert will be much higher than that for a TV advert costing many times as much.

 

Telling the company accountant that you've dropped pretty much your entire marketing budget on a TV ad because it might bring new people into the hobby is going to result in a long, cold stare and possibly your P45. Long term, this might be A Good Thing, but to the man writing the cheques, it's not so appealing. 

[Phil Parker]

A significant barrier to entry, as Scottish Modeller has found, is baseboard construction , so I also think there’s an opportunity for someone to supply simple modular baseboards .

 

 

You mean like White Rose, Tim Horn or even Modula Layouts?

[Phil Parker]

There was a really good little book out dating back to 1990 “Build a Model Railway layout” by Dave Lowery . It showed you how to build a layout I think 8*4 but significantly it was interesting to operate , while relatively simple had a wow factor which was a double track terminus . I used the techniques to build my baseboards for my loft layout (pretty standard but well explained). The track formation for the terminus is still in use on my layout. It was setback even using the Hornby R numbers. It had an incline , oval, town scene even a faller road system . An updated version of this in colour and using latest products and techniques I think would be very useful. If they could buy preformed baseboards even better, as I really think people are put off building these. And of course these days you’ve got great scenic products from Woodland Scenics , Static grass etc

 

But the point is this book showed a route to get an interesting model railway for the beginner. That’s what’s needed now. It’s possibly too late for this series with Christmas fast approaching and presents already bought. More than TV adverts I think a book like this generally available and in model shops would be useful . Of course if it was mentioned in the program as being available, even better

 

A book like this one from Peco, or this one from Hornby or even this one from Warners?

 

These are all available now, and at least 2 of them will be in model shops. Once still crops up in WH Smiths. All are within the grasp of anyone conversant with Google.

[Phil Parker]

The initial capital cost of getting into model railways is mitigated by relatively controllable ongoing costs so long as one can acknowledge the differences between "I need", "I want" and "that's nice" and apply some self-discipline accordingly. If you can't, you effectively become a collector, and that has always required deep pockets.

 

 

This deserves carving in stone and then being wheeled out next time yet another "It's all too expensive" thread develops. Learn and understand these wise words and you'll find the hobby much easier on the pocket!

[Jol Wilkinson]

Up to the 1980s, the Hornby catalogue included a section on how to build a layout (using Hornby components of course, but also advising on baseboard construction etc).

And presumably they dropped that with, for them, a good reason.

 

Is one manufacturer likely to invest in attracting new entrants to the hobby, knowing that all the other manufacturers will benefit from taking no action? Perhaps you should be considering how the manufacturers could be enrolled in a mutuality beneficial "The Joy of Railway Modelling" marketing campaign. Perhaps that is a role the DOGA, the only UK national OO Society, could get involved in, if they had sufficient support from the OO modelling community. However, given our national apparent unwillingness to agree to get involved in something they didn't invent or might not personally benefit from, that probably wouldn't get off the ground anyway.

[john new]

Which means your return on investment for a magazine advert will be much higher than that for a TV advert costing many times as much.

 

Telling the company accountant that you've dropped pretty much your entire marketing budget on a TV ad because it might bring new people into the hobby is going to result in a long, cold stare and possibly your P45. Long term, this might be A Good Thing, but to the man writing the cheques, it's not so appealing.

 

And something every Society PRO involved in the railway enthusiast hobby also knows. You have to target spend to where you think it best nets results, if you don't it is just vanity advertising.

[Legend]

You mean like White Rose, Tim Horn or even Modula Layouts?

 

Easy for us to find , but maybe not so for the beginner . Maybe he doesn't even know what to look for.  I was referencing Scottish Modellers post that he'd built 5 baseboards for people , so clearly they weren't visible to them . Also I'm sure Scottish Modeller was a friendly face and able to offer advice

[Legend]

A book like this one from Peco, or this one from Hornby or even this one from Warners?

 

These are all available now, and at least 2 of them will be in model shops. Once still crops up in WH Smiths. All are within the grasp of anyone conversant with Google.

 

Must  admit not aware of the 2 mags . I've got the Hornby Track Plans book because I collect all Hornby publications , but I certainly wouldn't recommend that as a route for beginners. Some of the designs are extremely implausible and would be difficult to operate . It does need to be inspiring and that's where Dave Lowerys book scored . It had a two track city terminus  but at the same time you though I can build that

['CHARD]

Also, following on from Phil's points, the manufacturers may well have considered that the show itself was good advertising for them. If it leads people to seek out a local model shop, or search for model railway related terms on Google, then they will come across the main brands anyway. And if they're not interested enough to go shopping or browse the web, even after watching a programme about model railways, then more advertising is unlikely to change that.

 

Good points, well made (Peco, that slogan is still available to you for marketing, just cross my palm with silver).

 

I've not noticed any adverts around Bake Off for self raising flour, eggs or even cookware nor, and perhaps more to the point, for supermarkets . You get a bit of that on the specialist channels- bike adverts around Eurosport's  Tour de France coverage for example- but it's very limited and very specific to a partucular segment of the audience who are your potential customers but one you know is there. What you don't get are the tourist departments of various French regions running adverts for themselves when the Tour is going through their area, Only an idiot pays for advertising when someone is giving it for free. .

 

You may assume that marketing departments are asleep on the job (all of them....really? ) but it's probably far more cost effective to let the TV series create the interest in the minority of its viewers who may be potential customers that leads them to buy a magazine or go to an exhibition and make sure your presence is felt there. That way you're reaching an audience who have already pre-selected themselves by showing a particuar level of interest. Even that though has to be subject to an ROI (return on investment) analysis which, amongst other things, is why manufacturers may not take stands at some of the shows you might expect them to be at. 

 

Exac-ruddy-absolutely.  If one of the manufacturers, say, had the cash sloshing round to place an advert during the breaks, then how and at what level would they pitch it?  Drone-style video wizardry of some masterpiece in the style and scale of Miniatur-Wonderland, just for the wow-factor?  How would they populate such a visual effort, could everything featured be from within their own range?  What disclaimers might they have to scroll along the bottom of the screen?  How about their relationship with retailers (be that High Street or internet), if they don't sell direct - there's little point Heljan or Dapol getting their name out, to name but two.

 

My suspicion is that the major model railway manufacturers were happy/ delighted to have their name associated with the programme, and contented that the show's popularity would drive an eagerness in viewers to find out more.  Let's face it, in the internet age, that latter action is not difficult.

 

Which means your return on investment for a magazine advert will be much higher than that for a TV advert costing many times as much.

 

Telling the company accountant that you've dropped pretty much your entire marketing budget on a TV ad because it might bring new people into the hobby is going to result in a long, cold stare and possibly your P45. Long term, this might be A Good Thing, but to the man writing the cheques, it's not so appealing. 

 

Precisely.

[Zomboid]

The program itself is the best advert, in that it shows normal people having fun building and playing with toy trains. What better message could there be?

 

The manufacturers will benefit when those who were inspired by it go online and look at what's around. The RTR industry, aside from track, is not really competitive in the normal sense - if you want a new OO Southern N class, you've only got the Bachmann one to choose from. Most other items are the same, so they're not really competing with each other that much.

[Phil Parker]

Easy for us to find , but maybe not so for the beginner . Maybe he doesn't even know what to look for.  I was referencing Scottish Modellers post that he'd built 5 baseboards for people , so clearly they weren't visible to them . Also I'm sure Scottish Modeller was a friendly face and able to offer advice

 

If the beginner types "model railway baseboards" into Google, the results are pretty impressive and useful. I'm not quite sure what you are expecting the baseboard makers to do to be more visible. Most take adverts in magazines, which is where many beginners will head if they don't go to the web. 

[009 micro modeller]

I think what might be good in terms of baseboards is a larger version of these: https://www.scalemodelscenery.co.uk/large-baseboard-modules-279-c.asp

 

Yes, for an area suitable to lay an 00 circuit on it’s going to need to be bigger, made of thicker MDF and have more supporting pieces, but these could still be laser cut and slotted together, secured with just glue. I like them although I wonder whether they would be quite as durable if made to a larger size, but as a starting point it’s a good idea and could be flat packed in with an existing train set. On a slightly different subject, as an 009 Society member I was pleased to see some 009 in episode 2, and I thought it was refreshing that they didn’t make narrow gauge modelling seem inherently more complicated for beginners. On the other hand I thought the difference between 00 and 009 (and thus scale and gauge generally) could have been explained a bit better. This is something that seems to confuse beginners and I still get asked to explain the difference between 00, 009 and N, sometimes by people relatively familiar with model railways as well as beginners.

[D9020 Nimbus]

I seem to remember that the presenters got confused between N Gauge and 009 at least once! A brief explanation on the episodes where these were used might have helped a little.

[peterl]

I think what might be good in terms of baseboards is a larger version of these: https://www.scalemodelscenery.co.uk/large-baseboard-modules-279-c.asp

 

Yes, for an area suitable to lay an 00 circuit on it’s going to need to be bigger, made of thicker MDF and have more supporting pieces, but these could still be laser cut and slotted together, secured with just glue. I like them although I wonder whether they would be quite as durable if made to a larger size, but as a starting point it’s a good idea and could be flat packed in with an existing train set. On a slightly different subject, as an 009 Society member I was pleased to see some 009 in episode 2, and I thought it was refreshing that they didn’t make narrow gauge modelling seem inherently more complicated for beginners. On the other hand I thought the difference between 00 and 009 (and thus scale and gauge generally) could have been explained a bit better. This is something that seems to confuse beginners and I still get asked to explain the difference between 00, 009 and N, sometimes by people relatively familiar with model railways as well as beginners.

 

And if you now add '09' into the mix you really do confuse many people! Even fellow railway modellers!

Peter

[Dunsignalling]

And if you now add '09' into the mix you really do confuse many people! Even fellow railway modellers!

Peter

That's just the easy stuff. I have a friend who models Sn3 (American). That's (I think) three sixteenths of an inch to the foot (1:64) on a track gauge of nine-sixteenths of an inch.

 

Try explaining that to anyone who only thinks in metric.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Robin2]

I'd be interested in what you might consider "entry level for adult customers". Presumably cheaper but what would you be willing to forgo in return?  

John

I don't think the issue is price so much as completeness. I reckon there needs to be the ability to buy the whole thing in one package - trains, track, baseboard, scenery, buildings, electrics etc.  Take it home; take it out of the box; minimal assembly; call friends and family in to admire its looks and the way it works. Something that can be presented as piece of art, as well as a working model.

 

Maybe the baseboard is just a plastic moulding, or extruded or expanded polystyrene. And, for obvious reasons it will be a lot smaller than 8x4. Maybe a shunting plank that can fit on a shelf. Or a 4x4 (2 off 2x4 for ease of carrying) that can sit on a table.

 

Maybe the boards could be designed so you could buy another one and join it on. That concept is well established among some groups of modellers. Why not commercialise it?

 

...R

Edited December 13, 2018 by Robin2

[Phil Parker]

I don't think the issue is price so much as completeness. I reckon there needs to be the ability to buy the whole thing in one package - trains, track, baseboard, scenery, buildings, electrics etc.  Take it home; take it out of the box; minimal assembly; call friends and family in to admire its looks and the way it works. Something that can be presented as piece of art, as well as a working model.

 

Maybe the baseboard is just a plastic moulding, or extruded or expanded polystyrene. And, for obvious reasons it will be a lot smaller than 8x4. Maybe a shunting plank that can fit on a shelf. Or a 4x4 (2 off 2x4 for ease of carrying) that can sit on a table.

 

Maybe the boards could be designed so you could buy another one and join it on. That concept is well established among some groups of modellers. Why not commercialise it?

 

...R

 

Something like this: https://www.noch.com/en/product-categories/model-railways/preformed-layouts.html

[Jol Wilkinson]

Something like this: https://www.noch.com/en/product-categories/model-railways/preformed-layouts.html

Prices shown on the Gaugemaster site. Beyond what most people might consider entry level.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

That's just the easy stuff. I have a friend who models Sn3 (American). That's (I think) three sixteenths of an inch to the foot (1:64) on a track gauge of nine-sixteenths of an inch.

 

 

You are correct with those figures. Americans in general don't like the metric system and so their O gauge is not 7mm to 1ft (1/43) but 1/4 inch to 1ft (1/48)

Edited December 13, 2018 by TEAMYAKIMA