Buying 2nd hand risks

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I have to say about 75% of all my railway has come second hand. I have never had a problem with Ebay and as yet not had to return a product either new or second hand. Yes it is always nice to go to a shop and see it run before you buy it and you can feel a little more confident. But you should not have to worry. As many have said here buying second hand railway stuff is not like buying a second hand car. If it does break it is easier to send back and does not leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere.....

[Nedrahn]

Regarding buying from stalls at shows, I sometimes help a trader. His policy is to check if locos run. If they don't, they tend to go in the spares or repairs box - always look in such a box, because if you're prepared to service a loco yourself you can get a real bargain. This trader has long experience of servicing locos, so he knows what's he's doing. However, he just doesn't have time to dismantle every defective loco to see what's wrong. Traders often buy collections of locos and stock, and so can't go into detail with every one.

 

With this trader locos that have been sold as tested work at the time of testing, but sometimes they can be stored for a period and subsequently develop problems. He gives out his card with locos, so that any problem can be resolved. It would seem sensible to me to buy secondhand items from a trader who is relatively local to you, or at the very least is happy to give you his contact details. As said in another post, a good trader would also trust you to test the loco in the show, although I think only within reason. For example, at one show I was in charge of a stall near a 'loco doctor'. I was happy for customers to take locos to him for testing, as I could see them. I wouldn't have been so happy if someone had wanted to disappear with the loco! I suppose in this situation buying the loco and then testing it in the show would be the best solution.

 

I know some traders who just don't care as long as the money rolls in, but most do and can be trusted. However, things can be missed, and models do have a finite lifespan - a loco might go another ten years without trouble, or it might fail a few weeks after purchase. For example, a shop I do the the repairs for had a Hornby Dublo loco in recently. It had been sold six months ago, and had just stopped working. The armature had failed. The shop owner didn't consider it acceptable to give a refund on an item that had been running for six months after purchase, but we did feel the need for some form of compromise. So I sourced a replacement armature, fitted it and serviced the loco. The owner was charged only for the armature, which was the cheapest I could find. A good trader will be understanding if something goes wrong, but a buyer must accept that a loco can fail at any time, and it's no-one's fault.

 

There's good advice on this thread about buying secondhand, although I would add that many Mainline locos can be saved if you're prepared to cut or purchase new driving axles (the most common failure). You also take a chance with the motor. Some are excellent, most are okay, and some couldn't do damage to a rice pudding. Most things can be replaced on older locos. It's just a question of time and cost. When servicing certain locos, though, a third hand would be desirable!

[Steamport Southport]

There is, or was at one time, some sort of restriction on charity shops selling electrical items in working condition, because of possible claims against them if the users got themselves electrocuted or set fire to something.  This may explain Golden Plover's cut wires.

 

Only applies to things you plug directly into the mains. I doubt the charity shop staff would have the inclination to cut wires inside a model locomotive, but the donor may have done it.

 

You can get things PAT tested and some of the larger charity shops have this facility such as Oxfam and BHF. But for the majority of charities it's usually not cost effective. You are spending more than the item's worth unless you have someone who is qualified to do it.

 

I just politely tell them that we can't take them and send them to the hospice shop round the corner which will take them and also sells furniture. Most of the time you wonder why anyone would want to donate out of date electrical goods. Does anyone really want a dirty old 1970s teasmade? 

 

 

 

Jason

[Damo666]

Does anyone really want a dirty old 1970s teasmade? 

Ooooh, they are coming back into fashion. Which shop did you see it in?

[Phil Bullock]

Ooooh, they are coming back into fashion. Which shop did you see it in?

 

Certainly are - SWMBO asked for one for her birthday recently and thinks its the best thing since sliced bread!

 

Saves me getting up 15 mins earlier too.....

 

Phil

[Lacathedrale]

For these second hand locos that have gummed up, does anyone have a 10,000 ft view on what one should use to clean off old grease, and what grease should be used to replace?

[Oldddudders]

Does anyone really want a dirty old 1970s teasmade? 

 

Theatre company props department, for the next time they do a 60s/70s play? And such a kitsch item will have plenty of admirers who might buy if they have the space.

[Crantock]

I have topped out on locos and further purchases will be selective and likely to be kits.  I find the biggest danger is me and impulse buys at shows.  Failing to look for obvious faults etc.  Then finding you have bent or missing buffers, missing whistles, safety valves, steps etc etc.  A show produces pressure of "will someone else get it".  In contrast an Ebay auction actually comes with a description which often flags a fault and usually photos you can study at leisure.  The only pressure on Ebay is to pay too much but that's manageable.

 

I showed a colleague at work a loco on Ebay.  I explained it was a "handbag" - it would cost too much, I did not need it, I had no possible use for it and I couldn't justify buying it.  She was very helpful and explained that if it made me feel good about myself it was worth it.

[Lacathedrale]

I showed a colleague at work a loco on Ebay.  I explained it was a "handbag" - it would cost too much, I did not need it, I had no possible use for it and I couldn't justify buying it.  She was very helpful and explained that if it made me feel good about myself it was worth it.

 

I had this experience with guitars - I was talking to a friend saying that I really wanted a particular instrument but couldn't justify it because I had two already which covered both styles, and he said something like 'Not everything has to be useful', which I think is probably even more germane to railway modelling!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

For these second hand locos that have gummed up, does anyone have a 10,000 ft view on what one should use to clean off old grease, and what grease should be used to replace?

 IPA (iso-propyl- alcohol / propan-2-ol) does the job very efficiently and is generally modelling plastics compatible, but avoid getting it on painted bodyshells.

 

Replacement greases should be sold as plastics compatible. Never had any trouble with the Labelle and Woodland Scenics brands. I have read good things here and elsewhere about super slippy plastics compatible greases for RC helicopters and drones, but have been too idle (currently have a good supply of satisfactory product) to get any to evaluate...

[John Tomlinson]

For these second hand locos that have gummed up, does anyone have a 10,000 ft view on what one should use to clean off old grease, and what grease should be used to replace?

 

The stuff marketed by Slaters as their "Track and Mechanism Cleaner" works as well, like IPA keep away from painted bodyshells.

 

Another vote for Labelle's products.

 

John.

[Damo666]

For these second hand locos that have gummed up, does anyone have a 10,000 ft view on what one should use to clean off old grease, and what grease should be used to replace?

When I was servicing my very old rediscovered Hornby locos (c.1980) I was told Silicone Grease was suitable.

 

Got this from Maplin at the time, but it is still available from other suppliers.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Damo666

[Steamport Southport]

Ooooh, they are coming back into fashion. Which shop did you see it in?

 

Last time I saw it, it was in a Biffa bin after I slung it in there with the rest of the garbage. 

 

 

I seriously doubt anyone would have wanted it. It was something that had probably been in a garage for forty years and been donated after a house clearance. We get that sort of stuff all the time. It was checked though. I check everything.

 

 

If you want one go to places like Argos as they have "retro" ones that are hygienic and probably work.

 

 

Getting back to model railways. The only items I've seen come in was a couple of Triang Big Big Train coaches and I bought them.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[cypherman]

 

E still have a Goblin Teasmade unused in it's box. Was a wedding present from 26 tears ago. Never used and still in mint condition. I wanted to sell it but SWMBO has repeatedly said no. I just do not understand women......

[John Tomlinson]

When I was servicing my very old rediscovered Hornby locos (c.1980) I was told Silicone Grease was suitable.

 

Got this from Maplin at the time, but it is still available from other suppliers.Servisol Silicone Grease.jpg

 

I use the same, which came from Hobby Holidays IIRC.

 

John.

[HonestTom]

I find the biggest danger is me and impulse buys at shows.  Failing to look for obvious faults etc.  Then finding you have bent or missing buffers, missing whistles, safety valves, steps etc etc.  A show produces pressure of "will someone else get it".  In contrast an Ebay auction actually comes with a description which often flags a fault and usually photos you can study at leisure.  The only pressure on Ebay is to pay too much but that's manageable.

 

This is something I've been guilty of in the past - seeing a loco at an absolute bargain price without stopping to wonder why it's such a bargain. Or seeing that one item that I really need, buying it and then discovering that actually I should have held off - I once had a van literally fall to pieces on the way home, for instance. These days, I try to be more careful.

[The Johnster]

When I was servicing my very old rediscovered Hornby locos (c.1980) I was told Silicone Grease was suitable.

 

Got this from Maplin at the time, but it is still available from other suppliers.Servisol Silicone Grease.jpg

 

I don't replace the grease with grease, but always use plastic compatible fine light machine oil.  Cleaning of old grease or oil is done with a can of Maplins (similar stuff must be available elsewhere but the one I've got probably has a few years left in it) spray switch cleaner (also good for cleaning switches).  The spray is powerful enough to blow most of the crud away and cleaining is easy.  Apply your new lube as sparingly as you can get away with.

[Oldddudders]

I don't replace the grease with grease, but always use plastic compatible fine light machine oil.  Cleaning of old grease or oil is done with a can of Maplins (similar stuff must be available elsewhere but the one I've got probably has a few years left in it) spray switch cleaner (also good for cleaning switches).  The spray is powerful enough to blow most of the crud away and cleaining is easy.  Apply your new lube as sparingly as you can get away with.

 

And, really, when did we start getting grease in RTR locos? I mean - grease? The light oil you mention is the trad lubricant for model locos, to the extent that, as many of us remember, a tiny bottle of oil was provided with the loco. But grease? Since plastic gears replaced brass I recognise that some care is needed in the choice of lubricant, but Labelle 102 Plastic-compatible lubricant has been on sale for decades and it can't exactly be a secret formula, so no doubt every manufacturer has access to an equally suitable product. Is there an advantage to the manufacturer in using grease instead of oil?

[47164]

Like many I purchase numerous second hand loco's, and despite what most traders claim , in my experience they rarely give loco's a 10 min service in the form of wheel cleaning and a brief oil, it's amazing how a little time will turn a potential dog into a solid working loco....meths and a cotton wool bud are excellent wheel cleaners! .. and oil not grease for ringfield type units.

[hayfield]

All of my 4mm loco's were bought 2nd hand, 90% are great runners and have needed no more than wheel clean.  One is a non-runner but it was advertised as that and its caused by solidified factory lubrication, which I'll get rid of when I get a round tuit.  The others that werent so great runners where stripped down, wheels, pick-ups (bushes etc in Lima motors) give a good clean.  All of those are great runners now.  The worse was a Mainline 45 which had split gears, sold as a good runner.  I could have returned it but I had spare gearsets and 10 mins later, it ran great.  I ended up selling that loco for nearly 3 times what I paid.

 

The worst that can happen is that you are sold a dog, but then the distance selling rules come in to force.  Though as mentioned above, if you get one that stinks of smoke then I dont think you'd have any comeback but a good scrub will sort it out.

 

If you see a loco at an exhibition, if the seller doesnt have a way of testing, tell the trader you'll get it tested on a layout and if it doesnt work you'll bring it back.  If the trader refuses, walk away.  Most will welcome you to do that

 

If something seems too cheap to be true, then its usually masking something - but not always and shouldnt be overlooked

 

 

I have bought locos in the past described as non runners which just needed a clean, another was a Bemo loco for under £30 which after taking out the DCC chip worked like a dream, kit locos can also be easily repaired, but care is needed in buying

 

If bought on eBay and described as running, if not then refunds can be obtained. Plus just check the sellers feedback, plenty of honest sellers there