Urgent Safety Advice today from RAIB

[big jim]

For what it's worth, in contrast to the almighty fuax pah discussed aboce, today there was a blanket 50mph speed restriction on all lines between London Euston and Crewe due to high winds, the instruction was broadcast over the GSM-R to all Drivers every few minutes until it was lifted just after mid-day.

 

As for remote booking on and reading our late notices etc (in my company's case at least) if we don't book on by phone within twenty minutes or so the BOP will be ringing us up, leaving several voicemails if necessary. All of our notices come to our company issued ipads these days and the dates on which we open and read them are all part of the annual audit.

regards that blanket 50 yesterday i had to phone erewash signaller to see if we were still under it at toton as the notices had stopped via the gsm-r, he knew nothing about it at all despite the warning we got being for as you say the wcml and east midlands south!

 

similar to you i remote book on and have done for the last 7 or so years, all my notices come electronically and can be tracked to when you opened them and for how long etc, the only thing we dont see is late notices but we can and do get them emailed to us as and when through the day (ok its not much use when in the cab driving but you may get something important through when you put the pad/phone on on a break)

[RANGERS]

But I have heard "A yellow light showing Amber".

 

There is a common belief that the word Amber means Caution or Warning, not a description of a colour. It's not a word often used in everyday language as a colour -- who has seen an "amber" Lego brick or an "amber" egg yolk or a tin of "amber" paint?

 

In fact Amber is "a yellow or yellowish-brown hard translucent fossil resin derived from extinct coniferous trees that occurs in Tertiary deposits and often contains trapped insects."

 

Martin.

They’re not even yellow, common parlance says they’re white lights showing green, red etc. Traditionally they may have been fuelled by red oil but the light was still white!

[iands]

They’re not even yellow, common parlance says they’re white lights showing green, red etc. Traditionally they may have been fuelled by red oil but the light was still white!

 

To be pedantic, on semaphore signals the flame on the lamps burnt a yellow colour, with is why the "green" colour spectacles are actually a blue colour - Yellow + Blue = Green! 

 

The replacement "electric lights" in the semaphores were such that they mimicked (as closely as possible) this yellow flame, the bulbs being only '4 volt 0.5 watt', i.e. pretty dim (which was an in-joke at the time - he's as bright as a 4v bulb!).

 

The colourlight signals were obviously brighter, when I started on the railway they were 12 volt 16/24 watts but I think these values may have changed since I moved from "signalling" to "telecoms".

[Oldddudders]

But I have heard "A yellow light showing Amber".

 

There is a common belief that the word Amber means Caution or Warning, not a description of a colour. It's not a word often used in everyday language as a colour -- who has seen an "amber" Lego brick or an "amber" egg yolk or a tin of "amber" paint?

 

In fact Amber is "a yellow or yellowish-brown hard translucent fossil resin derived from extinct coniferous trees that occurs in Tertiary deposits and often contains trapped insects."

 

Martin.

Then there is a 1940s novel called Forever Amber. Despite Beyond Our Ken (BBC Radio) trying to imply it was about a traffic jam, this was so racy/smutty it was banned in 14 US states!

[101]

this was so racy/smutty it was banned in 14 US states!

Which I guess made it sell extremely well in all the other states

[Banger Blue]

For the ‘Laypersons’ out there who may have never seen a Late Notice, here’s a screenshot of a small part of one from a couple of weeks ago:

 

“EROS = Emergency Restriction of Speed”

 

 

If it’s printed off, at the bottom there is an area for the Driver / Guard details, Turn worked and signature/date/time of having read the notice.

[The Stationmaster]

From previous RAIB: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/overspeed-at-sandy-south-junction

 

 

Photo showing the 20 mph commencement board and the termination board for the emergency speed restriction (still taken from ffcctv footage from the incident train, courtesy of LNER)

 

Yes, but in this case (although they were there)  the critical things are the 'metal mickey' and the magnet because they are what give the Driver his braking distance.  The 20 board simply tells a Driver exactly where the EROS starts.

[The Stationmaster]

What part of the world was that 101? NRN was operational well before 1993, though I admit some areas were somewhat patchy for a while.

 

I carried out the NRN training of WR HQ Control Office in the late 1980s - can't remember the exact year but it was prior to 1989 when I moved to another job.  However the system was bit patchy but I tried the portable set I used for training from my living  (about 1 mile from the GWML in those days) and it worked not only in contacting a Control Office number but also in being called by a pal who at that time was a driver at Saltley who rang me from a train somewhere in the West Midlands.

 

But the problem with NRN is that it might not necessarily be wholly reliable in those days and how could you call a traction unit if you didn't know what it's number was and even if you had one number for it did you have the. umber for the other driving cab?  Far better might be a printed message over a GSMR link but you still need to know if it is going to the right people at the right time.  Hence the ultimate reliance has to be the 'metal mickey' and the magnet because they are, when correctly placed, the only absolutely certain way of indicating the presence and position of an EROS.

 

another point which is worth bearing in my ind when it comes to written advice and what we used to call Red Notices is just how many contemporary Drivers know exactly where they are at any time by milepost mileage (or indeed by some lineside place names which are neither marked not otherwise obvious except to somebody long acquainted with a route (Rugd's views on that would be informative I'm sure - please Nidge).   For example the EROS could be on a 10 mile. or more. stretch between two currently know railway locations so the only guide will be the milepost mileage although a Driver would obviously be alert to look out for the 'metal mickey' having passed one of those places.

[Ken.W]

I obviously will not make any comment regarding the actual incident at present, and yes, I do know the driver concerned, who's currently removed from duty pending investigations.

 

Regarding only the RAIB notice itself;

Remote signing on was introduced under the Driver Restructuring Initiative under GNER. No provision was made for posting of ESR notices.

Since the RAIB notice was issued we are now, as an interim measure, e-mailed copies of the notices issued by NR advising of the imposition of ESRs, and there's been a section listing ESRs added to the POIS sheet (Train formation, timing, and other info, issued at start of journey)

 

As an aside, it's been interesting to see on there the term 'Restriction of Speed' used, including in the notice copied above, is this a WR thing? Elsewhere, I've only ever seen the term 'Speed Restriction' used, whether Permanent, Temporary, or Emergency

[caradoc]

Working in Scotland we always referred to speed restrictions as a PSR, TSR or ESR as appropriate, Where EROS is used, does that mean the corresponding PROS and TROS are used too ?!

[Covkid]

Working in Scotland we always referred to speed restrictions as a PSR, TSR or ESR as appropriate, Where EROS is used, does that mean the corresponding PROS and TROS are used too ?!

 

"Working in Scotland" you do things different to the other zones !!!!!

 

I don't know how long we have been using our current system but basically I am one of a team of 14 shift crew controllers who manage our crews between Edinburgh and Plymouth, Manchester and Reading  (that should give you an easy clue which TOC). Our information all comes electronically via email from the NR zones in the case of emergency restrictions, and Milton Keynes HQ for weekly and periodic notices. It is all within a database and on a friday night we update it for the folllowing week. 

 

First of all the difference between an ESR and a TSR.  An ESR is an emergency speed restriction which has not been published anywhere except in TOCs and FOCs late notices.  A TSR is a planned speed restriction and will have been "advertised" in the weekly notices issued to relevant staff. This means staff will only need to know about ESRs and amendments to TSRs through late notices. There are sections for EROS (Emergency Restriction Of Speed) Cancelled Items, Miscellaneous Items and a section for signalling alterations (rarely used). As an example the Anglia zone might impose an ESR

 

They will post the following ;

 

Route code EAxxx Ely Jn - Trowse

Location Brandon

Line Up

Speed 20

From xxx m xx c

To      xxx m xx c

Reason - cracked rail

NR Ref No

 

This information is transcribed into our software in our LN database, an updated paper report is generated and kept in the office as well as a paper copy of the email kept on file and recorded in a paper log.

 

The updated database is uploaded each time into a data holder where each driver signing on duty can download a copy onto their tablet. Guards when signing on duty have a copy of the LNs printed to take with them.

 

The NR zones we deal with are Anglia, LNE (formerly LNES, LNEC and LNEN) Scottish, LNW North, LNW South, East Midlands & Continental, Swindon, Wales and Wessex.  There is one other zone which we no longer need which is SouthEast.

 

All NR zones except Scottish measure track in miles and chains, Scottish use miles and yards.  The words used are important and again Scottish are different.  A speed restriction is imposed.  When the work is complete the restriction is withdrawn, except the Scottish who use cancelled. In my view this is confusing because on Late Notices there are cancelled items.

 

For example an engineer plans to repair some track at XXX between mileage X and mileage X, and will impose a restriction of 50mph.  This will be published in the weekly notices and relevant staff will see it and act accordingly. The engineer subsequently cancels his planned work at XXX, but because the restriction is being published in the weekly notices, the relevant NR zone issues a cancelled message, which we place on our Late Notices for the period it relates to. Obviously our cancelled means something different to Scottish Zone !!!

 

Hope this is of some help in explaining how Late Notices work currently, and that is different to when I started and we had to pin each A5 size form in a red painted notice case - a pin to each corner, and a pin in each corner of the little slip signifying who placed it in the case and when !!

[Hobby]

As an aside, it's been interesting to see on there the term 'Restriction of Speed' used, including in the notice copied above, is this a WR thing? Elsewhere, I've only ever seen the term 'Speed Restriction' used, whether Permanent, Temporary, or Emergency

I was taught restriction of speed and Mick was a Midland lad through and through. Edited December 1, 2018 by Hobby

[royaloak]

Drivers’ notice cases, and an allowance for reading them before taking the first train of the shift, were mandatory items in my day.

 

How far has the industry slipped?

We get 5 minutes to sign on (remotely by phone), wait for our late notices to be printed (normally 3, 4 or 5 A4 sheets) and read them, I will leave you to work out if it is long enough.

 

An ESR can be set up at any time of the day (the clue is in the E for emergency) so drivers who signed on before it was set up wont have it on their late notices, thats why we have eyes (to see the dalek and boards through the windscreen) and ears (to hear the buzzer as the train goes over the magnets), all this mock indignation about drivers not being made aware of them is actually quite funny.

 

Signed a current mainline train driver who has never had an issue seeing and reacting to an ESR whether it was on the late notices or not.

[royaloak]

"Working in Scotland" you do things different to the other zones !!!!!

 

I don't know how long we have been using our current system but basically I am one of a team of 14 shift crew controllers who manage our crews between Edinburgh and Plymouth, Manchester and Reading  (that should give you an easy clue which TOC).

Island line!? 

[Oldddudders]

But what happened to dets and signals maintained at danger when an ESR was required?

 

From 1948 until 1996, the railway was required to run a service, not make a profit. It did so, by and large, safely, but without benefit of half the gismos now in use.

 

Very glad to be retired!

[caradoc]

"Working in Scotland" you do things different to the other zones !!!!!

 

All NR zones except Scottish measure track in miles and chains, Scottish use miles and yards.  The words used are important and again Scottish are different.  A speed restriction is imposed.  When the work is complete the restriction is withdrawn, except the Scottish who use cancelled. In my view this is confusing because on Late Notices there are cancelled items.

 

(Abridged)

 

I have never understood why the railway in other parts of the UK continues to use such an archaic and imprecise unit of measurement as chains; Apart from the railway, and the length of a cricket pitch, I have never encountered them in any other walk of life, ever !

[caradoc]

But what happened to dets and signals maintained at danger when an ESR was required?

 

From 1948 until 1996, the railway was required to run a service, not make a profit. It did so, by and large, safely, but without benefit of half the gismos now in use.

 

Very glad to be retired!

 

Until all the ESR equipment is in place trains still require to be stopped by signal and the Driver advised by the Signaller of the restriction. That has not changed (and overall the railway is safer now than at any time in history).

[iands]

I have never understood why the railway in other parts of the UK continues to use such an archaic and imprecise unit of measurement as chains; Apart from the railway, and the length of a cricket pitch, I have never encountered them in any other walk of life, ever !

Archaic maybe, but how is a 'chain' an imprecise unit of measurement?

[caradoc]

Beca

 

Archaic maybe, but how is a 'chain' an imprecise unit of measurement?

 

Because the minimum length it is possible to quote is 22 yards (as opposed obviously to one yard !)

[jim.snowdon]

I have never understood why the railway in other parts of the UK continues to use such an archaic and imprecise unit of measurement as chains; Apart from the railway, and the length of a cricket pitch, I have never encountered them in any other walk of life, ever !

Because all the structures records, which go back a very long way, are in miles and chains and it is easier not to change them.

 

Jim

[TheSignalEngineer]

Because all the structures records, which go back a very long way, are in miles and chains and it is easier not to change them.

 

Jim

Big job! Based on the figures NR quotes on their website they are responsible for 1.6 million chains of track.

['CHARD]

Beca

 

 

Because the minimum length it is possible to quote is 22 yards (as opposed obviously to one yard !)

 

Although ironically and coincidentally, a top link locomotive covers its own length in approx. 1 chain!  Whether or not that helps judge distance in some way, I won't presume to guess.

[martin_wynne]

Because the minimum length it is possible to quote is 22 yards (as opposed obviously to one yard !)

 

A Chain is divided into 100 Links. Distances can therefore be described to the nearest link. A link is 7.92 inches or 8 inches in practical terms.

 

A Gunters Surveying Chain is made up of 100 physical links, with various shaped tags to mark subdivisions:

 

 

More info: https://www.rushdenheritage.co.uk/land/gunterchain.html

 

It's a very convenient measuring device to drag across a muddy field in the pouring rain, indestructible and weatherproof, and needing no batteries.

 

Martin.

Edited December 1, 2018 by martin_wynne

[Ncarter2]

In my depot my staff report faults to me in miles and chains, never a issue. 22yds is but one length. For a specific issue, say a UTU fault, we not only get GPRS coordinations, you get miles, the chain plus yards eg, 72m 6ch + 7yds.

[ess1uk]

"Working in Scotland" you do things different to the other zones !!!!!

 

 

The NR zones we deal with are Anglia, LNE (formerly LNES, LNEC and LNEN) Scottish, LNW North, LNW South, East Midlands & Continental, Swindon, Wales and Wessex.  There is one other zone which we no longer need which is SouthEast.

 

All NR zones except Scottish measure track in miles and chains, Scottish use miles and yards.  The words used are important and again Scottish are different.  A speed restriction is imposed.  When the work is complete the restriction is withdrawn, except the Scottish who use cancelled. In my view this is confusing because on Late Notices there are cancelled items.

 

For example an engineer plans to repair some track at XXX between mileage X and mileage X, and will impose a restriction of 50mph.  This will be published in the weekly notices and relevant staff will see it and act accordingly. The engineer subsequently cancels his planned work at XXX, but because the restriction is being published in the weekly notices, the relevant NR zone issues a cancelled message, which we place on our Late Notices for the period it relates to. Obviously our cancelled means something different to Scottish Zone !!!

 

Hope this is of some help in explaining how Late Notices work currently, and that is different to when I started and we had to pin each A5 size form in a red painted notice case - a pin to each corner, and a pin in each corner of the little slip signifying who placed it in the case and when !!

Thought they were Routes now not zones?

LNE and EM route is one, the Continental is HS1 which is not owned by Network Rail but mantained by NR