Hornby 2019 announcements

[Merfyn Jones]

Does anyone know if the Northern Belle train pack R3697 will contain the newer Mk2E/F coaches or the ancient and crude Mk2D coaches? Various retailers (Hattons, Colletts, etc) are advertising them as Mk2F coaches. Hornby don't seem to mention what coaches come in the pack, though their picture shows the old style Mk2D.

 

The seperate Northern Belle coach pack, R4898, is listed as Mk2D coaches yet the picture shows them with updated underframe, bogies etc. This time Kernow are advertising them as Mk2E. 

 

This confusion will lead people, including myself, to hold off buying these items.

I would really like to buy both sets, but not if it comes with thoes awful ex airfix/ Dapol Mk2D coaches. The windows really do look bad. As Hornby have already produced the Mk2E coach in the railroad range and are developing the Mk2F it would make sense to use an updated version for these packs, and scrap the old Mk2D tooling altogether.

 

There are 2 x Mk.2D and 4 x Mk.2E coaches in the Northern Belle train. Hornby could do all from their existing range ,  BUT ?

[JDW]

There are 2 x Mk.2D and 4 x Mk.2E coaches in the Northern Belle train. Hornby could do all from their existing range ,  BUT ?

 

Without wanting to get too far off topic, it would be good to use the right coaches if available, but then there's be half the people here saying "thank goodness they used the right ones" and the other half saying "why did they do that, the old 2Ds don't match the new 2Es, the detail is poor, why not just use all matching well detailed ones,etc etc"

[tomparryharry]

Let me try explaining....

 

The coaches used by Hornby are from the older tooling and they are coaches that feature in the Hornby RAILROAD range from time to time. If Hornby released them under their main range, you'll have a few hundred people questioning Hornby (and rightly so) as to what an older model with absolutely no detail is sitting in the main range when it should logically be in the RAILROAD range.

 

Hornby do not have the correct tooling to make the Coronation trains and it will not happen for the foreseeable future. It's tool costly to tool up and not worth it. It's far easier to chop up some budget coaches and make a realistic set that to go about chopping up their higher end Stanier coaches.

 

Secondly why will Hornby add a Princess Coronation locomotive to the range? That's utterly stupid. They've literally just re-tooled the loco, no company in their right mind would do that. With the release of the NEW Princess Coronation there'll be a flood of older ones available second hand. Why would Hornby flood the market with "BRAND NEW OLDER TOOLING" models??? Makes no sense.

 

Understood?

.

Yes...

Oooh, goody! kitbashing time! I wonder if Hornby can release 'just' the coach bodies? They can make some very passable pre-group coaches. Preferably, in a plain grey, non-tampo'd, solid colour.

 

 

On the basis of both this & last years releases, would it be presumptive to think that Hornby are making some product in house? After all, I'd question the economics of shipping tools 15,000 miles to make a 60 year old toolset.... 

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[Londoner]

I've just seen this thread and am mystified that LNER modellers have been virtually ignored. There's nothing in the new catalogue for me and that means a zero spend on Hornby assets. As I imagine my view may be shared by many ER, LNER etc modellers, this seems like a potential revenue downside for Hornby.

[MGR Hooper!]

I've just seen this thread and am mystified that LNER modellers have been virtually ignored. There's nothing in the new catalogue for me and that means a zero spend on Hornby assets. As I imagine my view may be shared by many ER, LNER etc modellers, this seems like a potential revenue downside for Hornby.

And should be a happy year for your wallet....win win for you.

 

Not really a revenue downside for Hornby. Not everything is about the LNER. Other companies did exist you know.

 

To explain my use of win-win to those who think otherwise.

Win for his wallet: as it won't have to drain itself out.

Win for him still: there's also the Bachmann announcements to come and maybe other companies, so if he does still insist on buying more models (don't we all) he'll have extra money to support other brands.

 

Either there's a benefit. Either for his wallet or for his affection for the LNER.

Edited January 11, 2019 by MGR Hooper!

['CHARD]

I'm mystified that Hornby haven't announced a Gloucester Carriage & Wagon Class 100 2-car DMU in their Railroad range.  That's £89.99 they won't be getting from me, or any other modellers who might have bought a Gloucester Carriage & Wagon Class 100 2-car DMU, for that matter.  

 

On the upside, they may be getting some revenue from other modellers who are interested in the over 400 new items in the catalogue.

[Downer]

And should be a happy year for your wallet....win win for you.

 

Not really a revenue downside for Hornby. Not everything is about the LNER. Other companies did exist you know.

 

You obviously don't understand the concept of a win-win, which, in this case, would involve a good year for the wallet and LNER stuff to buy.  And where in Londoner's post is there any suggestion that other companies should be ignored?

[jonathan452]

I've just seen this thread and am mystified that LNER modellers have been virtually ignored. There's nothing in the new catalogue for me and that means a zero spend on Hornby assets. As I imagine my view may be shared by many ER, LNER etc modellers, this seems like a potential revenue downside for Hornby.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_12_2018/post-1-0-01937900-1545643994.jpg

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_12_2018/post-1-0-44068800-1545644000.jpg

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_12_2018/post-1-0-30386900-1545644143.jpg

[KDG]

Without wanting to get too far off topic, it would be good to use the right coaches if available, but then there's be half the people here saying "thank goodness they used the right ones" and the other half saying "why did they do that, the old 2Ds don't match the new 2Es, the detail is poor, why not just use all matching well detailed ones,etc etc"

Surely we would want Hornby to produce the correct vehicles? Would we wish for the days when it was ok for Hornby's class 37 and 47 to share the same motor bogie?

[Islesy]

I've just seen this thread and am mystified that LNER modellers have been virtually ignored. There's nothing in the new catalogue for me and that means a zero spend on Hornby assets. As I imagine my view may be shared by many ER, LNER etc modellers, this seems like a potential revenue downside for Hornby.

 

Swings and roundabouts Londoner, every region and traction type will have its day - I'm sure when we were unveiling the B12 and Q6 in 2016 there were LMS enthusiasts saying the same thing...

[Gilwell Park]

Hi. Has anybody noticed, or even care, that the short, panelled clerestory in the railroad range is now an 8 compartment 3rd rather than a 7 compartment 1st?.  Have Hornby cut & stuck, or photoshopped, two brake sections together?

[MarkSG]

I've just seen this thread and am mystified that LNER modellers have been virtually ignored. There's nothing in the new catalogue for me and that means a zero spend on Hornby assets. As I imagine my view may be shared by many ER, LNER etc modellers, this seems like a potential revenue downside for Hornby.

 

Pretty much every year, there's at least one region/company/era that prompts this comment. But it's a different region/company/era every year. LNER/ER modellers have done pretty well out of Hornby in recent years - and, of course, many of their hardy perennials, such as the A4s and Flying Scotsman, belong to that side of the country.

 

Each year's new announcements have to be seen in the context of a multi-year marketing and development strategy, and maybe there simply aren't that many LNER products close enough to production to be announced in this year's range. Maybe we'll see them next year.

 

Also, I wonder if Hornby have concluded that the market for LNER/ER is a bit saturated at the moment. Certainly, I was able to pick up a J15 at well below RRP (over the counter at a model shop, not online from a box-shifter), and there are plenty of them on eBay. That tends to suggest that supply is currently more than adequate to meet demand, and maybe Hornby are waiting until sales of those dry up before releasing more along the same lines.

[Londoner]

I'm mystified that Hornby haven't announced a Gloucester Carriage & Wagon Class 100 2-car DMU in their Railroad range.  That's £89.99 they won't be getting from me, or any other modellers who might have bought a Gloucester Carriage & Wagon Class 100 2-car DMU, for that matter.  

 

On the upside, they may be getting some revenue from other modellers who are interested in the over 400 new items in the catalogue.

 

It's hardly the same thing. I didn't mention an obscure and irrelevant sector of the market, I referred to a significant part of it, on a territorial basis, approx. a quarter of it. Many people who model the ER/LNER etc are unlikely to be buying a load of Great Way Round and Southern items. That potential revenue, is likely to be lost.

[john new]

I asked this at the event. The Railroad models are the old Tri-ang versions with panelled sides.

 

That's good news, thank you. Coaches that may be inaccurate but look the part.

['CHARD]

It's hardly the same thing. I didn't mention an obscure and irrelevant sector of the market, I referred to a significant part of it, on a territorial basis, approx. a quarter of it. Many people who model the ER/LNER etc are unlikely to be buying a load of Great Way Round and Southern items. That potential revenue, is likely to be lost.

 

I was only teasing!  As others have said, far more eloquently than I, there has been a fair amount of emphasis on LNER/ ER prototypes over recent years. 

 

As for your 'obscure and irrelevant' remark, I'm not sure what that applies to!  

[tomparryharry]

And should be a happy year for your wallet....win win for you.

 

Not really a revenue downside for Hornby. Not everything is about the LNER. Other companies did exist you know.

 

Oh come along! That can't be true! Even Harry Potter travelled via Kings Cross!

 

On the Western side of things, we've been very good boys & girls. It's not every day we see a new set of coaches we've been waiting for  20+ years....

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[Miss Prism]

Hi. Has anybody noticed, or even care, that the short, panelled clerestory in the railroad range is now an 8 compartment 3rd rather than a 7 compartment 1st?.  Have Hornby cut & stuck, or photoshopped, two brake sections together?

 

It's a fake photoshop, but it fooled me initially: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/141104-a-new-triang-clerestory-or-just-an-apparition/

[tomparryharry]

It's hardly the same thing. I didn't mention an obscure and irrelevant sector of the market, I referred to a significant part of it, on a territorial basis, approx. a quarter of it. Many people who model the ER/LNER etc are unlikely to be buying a load of Great Way Round and Southern items. That potential revenue, is likely to be lost.

 I'd suggest you research your demographic before using the keyboard...

 

It might cover a quarter of the country, but not a quarter of the wallet....

 

Well, my wallet anyway....

 

Happy modelling,

 

Ian.

[Wickham Green]

I've just seen this thread and am mystified that LNER modellers have been virtually ignored. There's nothing in the new catalogue for me and that means a zero spend on Hornby assets. As I imagine my view may be shared by many ER, LNER etc modellers, this seems like a potential revenue downside for Hornby.

............. but, as far as Hornby are concerned, that ought to be an increased spend from the rest of us ................................. and WE might be crying in our beer on Monday if t'other lot make an ALL LNER announcement and leave US out in the cold.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Swings and roundabouts Londoner, every region and traction type will have its day - I'm sure when we were unveiling the B12 and Q6 in 2016 there were LMS enthusiasts saying the same thing...

 Indeed, Hornby have produced a steady run of new introductions of LNER/ER oriented product over the previous nine(?) years: B1, B12/3, B17, D16/3, J15, J36, J50, K1, L1, O1, P2, Q6, an optimum selection of Gresley and Thompson non-corridor stock, an even more optimum group of all-steel Pullman K cars, Toads and Trouts, come to mind. And all gratefully received because every one of them is a winner.

 

However - and I know this isn't always easy to arrange, having myself been under the lash of product development and production management - I do feel that for Hornby to perform optimally in terms of market opportunity it would be best if every year's introductions had 'something for every interest', Not at the micro level, but at least attempting to have 'something all new' in six categories: for each of the big four groups,  for post steam BR and for the privatised contemporary railway. I think Hornby managed five out of six this year on that basis. My opinion would be that this is very good performance, and all responsible at Hornby should be proud of that.

 

(But when you can fit in B16, J6, J69; and a new range of end vestibule Gresley coaches and a pair of GN/LNER quadarts to the standard achieved on your Gresley non- corridors I will be very grateful. 'Koff'.)

[MikeParkin65]

I've just seen this thread and am mystified that LNER modellers have been virtually ignored. There's nothing in the new catalogue for me and that means a zero spend on Hornby assets. As I imagine my view may be shared by many ER, LNER etc modellers, this seems like a potential revenue downside for Hornby.

Well I've just bought a J36 and a NE Brakevan so Hornby are currently getting my 'LNER' money . I missed the 01 last time round so Hornby will probably be getting some more of my money next year .

 

There are also 3 versions of Flying Scotsman and 3 very attractive new liveries on the A4 - I hardly think the LNER has been ignored!

[wombatofludham]

I've said elsewhere that although this year there was very little of interest to me, I feel this year's announcements were solid and marked some important new trends that if continued might help Hornby in the long run.  To me it marked an important rebalancing of the company, not in the meaning of "something for every interest", that is physically impossible without a truckload of cash, but in the context of market strategy, perhaps moving slightly away from the grey pound collectable kettle market emphasis of previous years, although that sector hasn't been ignored with the Princess Royal and 51xx, towards a broader base including horror of horrors, some contemporary stuff.  The sliding door Mk3 announcement marks a return to the Hornby of old when they launched their Class 58 and APT, ahead of the real things, aimed at the up to date market, but also their decision to release the ex-Lima 66 in contemporary liveries to try and generate interest in the younger market is again going back to first principals and could be a relatively low risk, high reward strategy as not everyone can afford the high end prices of the competition and there are many who don't haunt these pages who would be happy with a robust, slightly dated but cheap 66 in an up to date livery who have been ignored in the nuclear arms race to finer and finer details that have raised prices to where they are today.  Again, neither set of announcements appeal to me, the sliding door Mk3s are too new for my layout and I'm in the position of being able to afford the more detailed 66 when I want one but if this is going to be a new trend, then I'm all for it.  The other strong point for me was the continuing development of the industrials market, something that Hornby have pretty much created for themselves.  Again, not my interest at all but with a nice balance of pretty tea urns and oil burners it looks as if for once Hornby have taken a lead and not been playing catch up.

The biggest surprise for me was the amount of almost aggressive direct competition being unleased, not just with the 51xx but with the surprise, and potentially only announcemtn of interest to me, the Mk2f.  Whilst both clearly have been launched because significant sums had already been spent on R&D and toolings, nevertheless it shows a level of confidence in the company that they are going to carry on competing on price (Mk2F) and not be afraid to release something that another company is planning.  

So for me there was nothing of interest, but I found the announcement intersting and encouraging.

[Londoner]

Pretty much every year, there's at least one region/company/era that prompts this comment. But it's a different region/company/era every year. LNER/ER modellers have done pretty well out of Hornby in recent years - and, of course, many of their hardy perennials, such as the A4s and Flying Scotsman, belong to that side of the country.

 

Each year's new announcements have to be seen in the context of a multi-year marketing and development strategy, and maybe there simply aren't that many LNER products close enough to production to be announced in this year's range. Maybe we'll see them next year.

 

Also, I wonder if Hornby have concluded that the market for LNER/ER is a bit saturated at the moment. Certainly, I was able to pick up a J15 at well below RRP (over the counter at a model shop, not online from a box-shifter), and there are plenty of them on eBay. That tends to suggest that supply is currently more than adequate to meet demand, and maybe Hornby are waiting until sales of those dry up before releasing more along the same lines.

 

You raise a very good point, particularly the one about saturation, thank you.

[Ian Hargrave]

I've just seen this thread and am mystified that LNER modellers have been virtually ignored. There's nothing in the new catalogue for me and that means a zero spend on Hornby assets. As I imagine my view may be shared by many ER, LNER etc modellers, this seems like a potential revenue downside for Hornby.

Well it had to happen.My first current sighting of that immortal phrase.Well maybe not for some but a good deal for others.

Capital investment/ expenditure for new tooling/projects being necessarily limited,as the wheel turns there will be winners and ( here I was about to print losers) some who are disappointed.

 

Remember the Sondheim song....the one about clowns...the one that ends..”Maybe next year.

[MGR Hooper!]

You obviously don't understand the concept of a win-win, which, in this case, would involve a good year for the wallet and LNER stuff to buy. And where in Londoner's post is there any suggestion that other companies should be ignored?

Edited my post and explained my use of "win-win" and whilst it's not in the conventional sense (yes I do know when it's used, but thanks for your input). The win win applies to his wallet and him. Though not the same entity it's still him and something he possesses.

 

And I didn't say that he claimed other companies should be ignored. But his post makes it seem like as if the LNER is one of the best selling items which is not entirely true. He hinted at how it would be a loss for Hornby to which I said that other companies existed.

 

Sorry for my quick post...I can see why it confused you. Hope I cleared things somewhat?

 

And anyway the LNER fans have had their days with a multitude of locos and lots of rolling stock from Hornby and other manufacturers.