Formula 1 2019

[Dunsignalling]

On ‎22‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 12:34, Roy Langridge said:

 

Whilst the history books will probably look back at Vettel as a good driver (not a great one) I think he will also be remembered as a bit of a sulky so-and-so who didn't always play fair.

 

Roy

IMHO Sebastian Vettel hasn't been "the driver he was" since the change to the hybrid cars.

 

Part of his problem could be that (also IMHO) he may think so too.

 

John

Edited June 26, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[RJS1977]

23 hours ago, melmerby said:

Not quite, I didn't mention the BBC.

Following ITV the BBC bought exclusive rights from 2009, in 2012 they sold 50% to Sky to save cash.

The BBC passed on their part of the rights to C4 in 2016 as they wanted to save yet more cash on sports coverage, (so they could bid for football? )

Then I assume Sky outbid C4 for the total package. Sky's coffers are far bigger then any public broadcaster so can outbid them for anything and not just the UK.

There has been a gradual shift with F1 coverage generally, from free to air which the teams like, to pay per view, which the rights holders want to monetise their holding.

The viewer is not considered at all.

As an example, viewers in the last year of live BBC coverage averaged 3.1m, C4s in 2017 was 1.9 m, Sky's was 625,000

Sky's figures were actually falling year on year, so it remains to be seen whether splashing the cash to get full coverage as really worth it.

 

The BBC passed to rights to C4 in 2016 in order to make savings as a result of taking on the cost of the free TV licences for the over 75s from the Government. 

[Kingzance]

8 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

The BBC passed to rights to C4 in 2016 in order to make savings as a result of taking on the cost of the free TV licences for the over 75s from the Government. 

The BBC was then paying some of its presenters over £1.5m a year, was involved in building a new set for Eastenders that was already way over budget (and remains wildly so today without yet being in use) and was in the throws of moving to Salford. Like so many publicly funded organisations, it doesn’t recognise the concept of living within one’s means. If it didn’t have public funding from the license fee, it’s management wouldn’t be capable of ensuring its survival. F1 is becoming less attractive to the general public and this has been apparent for several years. Compared to audiences for the likes of soaps and Eurovision, it doesn’t have enough appeal.

Blaming free licenses for over 75s is ok until you reach 75 and find yourself being given a criminal record!

[Pete the Elaner]

10 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

IMHO Sebastian Vettel hasn't been "the driver he was" since the change to the hybrid cars.

 

Part of his problem could be that (also IMHO) he may think so too.

 

John

It was known within the sport that Mercedes had developed a great Hybrid car.

Rosberg had one of them & Hamilton grabbed the other one.

 

The next best available was Ferrari & they paid the best wages, so that seemed like a good move.

Vettel is in a way in a difficult position. If he does not make mistakes then he could be seen as not trying hard enough & it seems the Italian media are even more vocal about Ferrari than British media are about the football team.

Try that little bit harder & it can easily become too hard, which is a mistake.

[Andrew P]

I have a feeling Gasley may be about to have his last Race at Red Bull if it's not a stunner in Austria, and he can beat, or at least live with Max.

 

I also see Estaban Ocon is back in the news with Toto bringing his name to the fore again for 2020, if not sooner to replace the Hulk at Renault, if he goes to RB. If he went to RB and stared to do well that would upset the grinning Aus.

 

I also think that George Russel needs a better car soon.

 

Lando Norris is fighting way above his weight, and will be looking at some Podiums soon I would think.

 

As for Seb, he hasn't been at the top of his game since Mark Webber and Danny R started to beat him fairly and squarely.

 

Bottas is still quick, and hasn't tailed off since the start of the season, it's more a case IMHO that Lewis has got on top of his game and into a rhythm with the Car and is on a roll, and his driving style is a joy to watch.

 

Just some opinions from an armchair slouch.

 

 

[RedgateModels]

Pretty much spot on there Andy

[melmerby]

IMHO Seb's only good when the car he is driving is better than anyone else's.

Hamilton winning "is boring". I bet he wouldn't say it's boring if he was winning.

[Kingzance]

8 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

I have a feeling Gasley may be about to have his last Race at Red Bull if it's not a stunner in Austria, and he can beat, or at least live with Max.

 

I also see Estaban Ocon is back in the news with Toto bringing his name to the fore again for 2020, if not sooner to replace the Hulk at Renault, if he goes to RB. If he went to RB and stared to do well that would upset the grinning Aus.

 

I also think that George Russel needs a better car soon.

 

Lando Norris is fighting way above his weight, and will be looking at some Podiums soon I would think.

 

As for Seb, he hasn't been at the top of his game since Mark Webber and Danny R started to beat him fairly and squarely.

 

Bottas is still quick, and hasn't tailed off since the start of the season, it's more a case IMHO that Lewis has got on top of his game and into a rhythm with the Car and is on a roll, and his driving style is a joy to watch.

 

Just some opinions from an armchair slouch.

 

 

Pretty good points there Andrew! I have a contact in RB who says the team were really sorry to lose DannyRic.

We are at a point when the old guard must naturally make way for the new and certainly the likes of Norris, Russell, Albon, LeClerc and Giovinazzi are the future and might just attract a sufficient following amongst a younger audience to see the sport survive. Certainly re-employing the likes of Riakkonen and Kubica was never going to do that. Grosjean is doing his best to get sacked by Haas too!  I am not sure from where teams will find enough really good new drivers WITH BIG BAGS OF SPONSORSHIP to fill the empty positions as we head for a global recession and the wider issues of climate change.

[PaulRhB]

It all points back to the two tier money problem, mentioned a lot, and maybe the saving of F1 will be to let Ferrari throw a paddy and leave and put all the teams on a even return? Depends if the brand managers can manage to bear such a leap into the unknown   Persuade Audi to jump in under the Bugatti label to replace them . . . 

[Pete the Elaner]

53 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

 

Bottas is still quick, and hasn't tailed off since the start of the season, it's more a case IMHO that Lewis has got on top of his game and into a rhythm with the Car and is on a roll, and his driving style is a joy to watch.

 

 

 

Bottas has made a great start to the season & seems to have pushed Hamilton in a positive way without the friction when Rosberg was there.

It seems like the team have made him feel that he can be their No1 if his driving merits it. If things are not actually like this within the team, then they are managing the situation very well.

 

2 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

It all points back to the two tier money problem, mentioned a lot, and maybe the saving of F1 will be to let Ferrari throw a paddy and leave and put all the teams on a even return? Depends if the brand managers can manage to bear such a leap into the unknown   Persuade Audi to jump in under the Bugatti label to replace them . . . 

Ferrari need F1 much more than F1 needs them. It is good for their image.

[Roy Langridge]

57 minutes ago, melmerby said:

IMHO Seb's only good when the car he is driving is better than anyone else's.

Hamilton winning "is boring". I bet he wouldn't say it's boring if he was winning.

Not a case of needing to bet, he didn’t complain when winning in the superior Red Bull. 

 

Roy

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, Kingzance said:

We are at a point when the old guard must naturally make way for the new 

 

I think that will only happen when Hamilton decides to call it a day, if anything he seems to be improving year on year at the moment. I do see some really good youngsters but at the moment I don't see a stand out young driver or anyone else on Hamilton's level, perhaps in a year or two there may be such a driver come to the fore. 

[Kingzance]

36 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

I think that will only happen when Hamilton decides to call it a day, if anything he seems to be improving year on year at the moment. I do see some really good youngsters but at the moment I don't see a stand out young driver or anyone else on Hamilton's level, perhaps in a year or two there may be such a driver come to the fore. 

I was fortunate enough to watch Hamilton as a kid in lower formulae - he was very impressive then but has simply got better as his F1 experience has grown.

 

Anyone new into F1 needs to learn the skills to drive at those extremely high levels so the performances of the new F1 kids so far is pretty good, whatever teams they are in. Beating your established team-mate is No1 priority for them. A second question we need to ask ourselves is regarding the future of F1. Does it have one given the costs of moving the circus around the globe by air, even if the hybrid engines are less damaging to the environment? Even Formula E isn't addressing these concerns with races in five continents.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

4 hours ago, Kingzance said:

...We are at a point when the old guard must naturally make way for the new and certainly the likes of Norris, Russell, Albon, LeClerc and Giovinazzi are the future ...

We now need to see the newer drivers who have recently moved to more competitive cars in a wet race. Leclerc still looks like the business to me, clearly developing the all essential racecraft necessary for being on that very special piece of tarmac where the likely podium contenders are to be found. (I reckon both he and Verstappen will be trouble for Bottas in the wet.) Norris likewise, just needs a good deal in a wet race and could easily get himself a podium. Nursing his ailing car home at Paul Ricard for points was a good advertisement of his skills.

 

And have we noticed how Verstappen is a whole lot calmer and more professional this year? I think he might have his eye on the future now: graft away and get solid results in what is not a winning car, and see when Vettel's seat becomes vacant?

[Andrew P]

10 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

We now need to see the newer drivers who have recently moved to more competitive cars in a wet race. Leclerc still looks like the business to me, clearly developing the all essential racecraft necessary for being on that very special piece of tarmac where the likely podium contenders are to be found. (I reckon both he and Verstappen will be trouble for Bottas in the wet.) Norris likewise, just needs a good deal in a wet race and could easily get himself a podium. Nursing his ailing car home at Paul Ricard for points was a good advertisement of his skills.

 

And have we noticed how Verstappen is a whole lot calmer and more professional this year? I think he might have his eye on the future now: graft away and get solid results in what is not a winning car, and see when Vettel's seat becomes vacant?

Or even the Bottas one at Merc for that matter, although I think the grinning Aus will be chasing that one very soon, even maybe for next year?

[Kingzance]

3 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Or even the Bottas one at Merc for that matter, although I think the grinning Aus will be chasing that one very soon, even maybe for next year?

Can't see DR getting the Silver Arrows seat for two reasons:
1 - he still wants to be top dog having been 2nd to Max and

2 - I don't think that TW and LH would think he is as much a team player as they need to continue their dominance.

Given LN showed last week how calm he can be - head down and deliver (or JFDI as an old colleague would say) - and is ensuring his star is ascending into view, he could be in the frame as a two or three year succession plan for Mercedes but would they be looking for a star from closer to Stuttgart?

[woodenhead]

15 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Or even the Bottas one at Merc for that matter, although I think the grinning Aus will be chasing that one very soon, even maybe for next year?

Mercedes have a driver Esteban Ocon - he is the current reserve as he lost his drive seat through other shenanigans at Racing Point.

 

He may be their first choice still for a second driver to LH - it is who will replace LH that will be the interesting drive - I doubt it would be DR, either Verstappen or Norris I should think.  LeClerc would only leave Ferrari I think if the team deteriorated or they don't give him top status when Vettel eventually goes.

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 

And have we noticed how Verstappen is a whole lot calmer and more professional this year? I think he might have his eye on the future now: graft away and get solid results in what is not a winning car, and see when Vettel's seat becomes vacant?

He will not sign for Ferrari if he wants to win the championship.

I am always quite shocked when media suggests drivers move to Ferrari with the ambition to win.

 

Some Ferrari history:

Their first foreign 'leader' was Jean Todt in 1993, who spent several years rebuilding the team. It took 7 years to win a world driver's championship with Ferrari, key signings being Michael Schumacher & Ross Brawn.

He left in 2008, which was their last driver's championship.

If you take away his influence, Ferrari have not won a driver's world title since 1979 & have consistently been the 2nd or 3rd best team.

They signed Todt because they saw him as the best leader & who can argue with his record there.

Before & after, they have been patriotic & signed the best Italian. 

 

So why would anyone who has genuine ambitions of being a world champion want to sign for them? They pay the most wages but don't win world titles.

[RJS1977]

4 hours ago, woodenhead said:

 

 

He may be their first choice still for a second driver to LH - it is who will replace LH that will be the interesting drive - I doubt it would be DR, either Verstappen or Norris I should think.  LeClerc would only leave Ferrari I think if the team deteriorated or they don't give him top status when Vettel eventually goes.

 

I don't know, I think having a better car, possibly more money might tempt M. LeClerc over, if Lewis retires before Vettel.

 

However Lewis said the other week that to retire now he's so close to Schumacher's records, would be a "wasted opportunity". On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if Vettel called it a day even before the end of the season.

[Sidecar Racer]

George Russel is also on Mercedes driver list so is another one to stake a claim to a seat , 

shame he cant display his best while stuck with the Williams , and remember he beat Lando last year .

[Andrew P]

24 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

I don't know, I think having a better car, possibly more money might tempt M. LeClerc over, if Lewis retires before Vettel.

 

However Lewis said the other week that to retire now he's so close to Schumacher's records, would be a "wasted opportunity". On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if Vettel called it a day even before the end of the season.

I stated on the 2018 thread, and again early on here that I never expected Vettel to even start this year, but I was wrong, now I think you may be right, time to go at the Summer Break if no wins by then, and convincingly out classed by Leclerc all season.

[Andrew P]

9 minutes ago, Sidecar Racer said:

George Russel is also on Mercedes driver list so is another one to stake a claim to a seat , 

shame he cant display his best while stuck with the Williams , and remember he beat Lando last year .

Merc need to make Williams their No 2 Team with the same philosophy as Ferrari apply to Hass and Alfa.

[Mike Storey]

34 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Merc need to make Williams their No 2 Team with the same philosophy as Ferrari apply to Hass and Alfa.

 

Now that is a Very Good Idea.... I wonder whether Frank would go for it though. When you see the frustration in his daughter's eyes, who so clearly wants to start winning, or at least not come last every race, I think we can guess what she might say.

 

[Roy Langridge]

17 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Mercedes have a driver Esteban Ocon - he is the current reserve as he lost his drive seat through other shenanigans at Racing Point.

 

 

And strongly rumoured to be replacing Kubica at Williams, possibly sooner rather than later.

 

Roy

[Andrew P]

Another name that I forgot about in my ramblings above is young Mick Schumacher, will he replace Kimi at Alfa next season, ready to join Leclerc when Vettel goes?

Edited June 28, 2019 by Andrew P
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