Pete the Elaner Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 LeClerc has been out-performing Vettel over the past few races. It is possible for a driver to turn things around though: Bottas is a different driver from the one we saw last season. He was unlucky on Sunday, both with the safety car being deployed at the right time for his team mate & also that the team did not expect a 1 stop strategy to work. They were planning to pit Hamilton a 2nd time but this seemed unnecessary. Seeing Bottas out-qualify Hamilton is no longer the surprise it would have been last year. Verstappen seems to be a different driver this year, taking less risky manoeuvres & benefitting as a result. He seems a lot calmer over the radio too. It may be that he is the clear team number 1 this season & this has taken some pressure off him, but I get the feeling he is just benefitting from his experience. For the past 2 seasons, the contest has been quite tight until the summer break. After this, Hamilton has upped his game. Maybe tracks suit him, or car has had decent upgrades? I suspect he just seems to be in a different frame of mind, but it seems like he is already there this year. Maybe other things have been a factor in each case, but I believe all 3 have been a change of attitude, which has to start with the driver being honest with themselves. Vettel has to start by being self-critical & looking at how he could have coped with things differently. 4 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Oldddudders said: ... he was coping with initial understeer, terminal oversteer, June bugs in his goggles, hot oil in his lap, pistons swapping cylinders....." Did I hear it right that Max' seat wasn't fully anchored to the car structure after Sebistiram's calling card? The FIA will have factors like that monitored soon enough, as that meant Max was in a car with a major element of the safety features at best compromised. Then it will be a compulsory immediate pit stop for rectification. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I’ve said it before that Vettel doesn’t seem able to see the bigger picture, and sacrifice short-term loss for long-term gain. Hamilton was a case in point on Sunday - tried to pass Bottas, then was trying to work the undercut (go longer on his first set of tyres) when the safety car happened and the race came to him. On Sunday, Vettel should have known (be told by his team) that Bottas had to stop again for tyres, and that even after being passed by Verstappen, he would still be on for a podium finish. Having qualified sixth, that’s not a bad Sunday outing given that he was never going to catch Lewis or Max. Then again, I’ve yet to see evidence that Ferrari can “read” a race as well as Mercedes or Red Bull, to get the best for either of their drivers. 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted July 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2019 20 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Did I hear it right that Max' seat wasn't fully anchored to the car structure after Sebistiram's calling card? The FIA will have factors like that monitored soon enough, as that meant Max was in a car with a major element of the safety features at best compromised. Then it will be a compulsory immediate pit stop for rectification. The only thing said about that by the commentators IIRC was about the gravel being thrown up and getting into some very awkward/uncomfortable places. I did observe some entering the cockpit in the slow motion replays and thought that if it got into an intake and thence the engine it would be race over. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted July 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2019 There was definitely a comment I read (not during the race) that yes, Max’s seat was loose after the shunt. 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, EddieB said: I’ve said it before that Vettel doesn’t seem able to see the bigger picture, and sacrifice short-term loss for long-term gain. I agree that it seems that way, but it seems that Verstappen made rash decisions, Hamilton seemed to need the summer break to get himself into top gear & Bottas really had no answer for Hamilton. They all seemed to have turned around these issues this year, so maybe Vettel can surprise us too? 18 minutes ago, EddieB said: I’ve yet to see evidence that Ferrari can “read” a race as well as Mercedes or Red Bull, to get the best for either of their drivers. They appear to be put under more extreme media & management pressure than any other team. I believe this does not help them attract & keep the best engineers & strategists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted July 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2019 25 minutes ago, EddieB said: I’ve said it before that Vettel doesn’t seem able to see the bigger picture, and sacrifice short-term loss for long-term gain. Hamilton was a case in point on Sunday - tried to pass Bottas, then was trying to work the undercut (go longer on his first set of tyres) when the safety car happened and the race came to him. I think it was even more than that, Lewis kept within the DRS window of Bottas for a long time and seemed to be able to do this without trashing his tyres. Rather than using the DRS to effect a pass he was using it to pull out of the slipsteam, cool his engine, brakes and tyres and still maintain the gap. Bottas had to go full on just to stay ahead. Smart man that Mr Hamilton 2 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said: ...Verstappen seems to be a different driver this year, taking less risky manoeuvres & benefitting as a result. He seems a lot calmer over the radio too. It may be that he is the clear team number 1 this season & this has taken some pressure off him, but I get the feeling he is just benefitting from his experience... Some of it from experience, but I suspect someone he respects has helped him, or he has gone in for some serious self examination - or even some of both - and is now aware and acting on the fact that he is no longer the 'outstanding newcomer' but has real competition from several other new hotshots. Now he has to graft away solidly, getting the best results the machine can obtain, and advertise his potential for that moment when a championship seat is available. 1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said: ...Bottas is a different driver from the one we saw last season... At very least he's a driver who has at last caught a break and obtained a couple of wins early in the season, and that will not have hurt his confidence. Better still, this year the Merc is significantly better than last year; goes around corners like it wants to. He has always been able to do a hot lap. Next step, can he do long stints at or near maximum pace without taking excessive life out of the tyres? He needs to find that, because it is available; his team mate very definitely can. What we need now is a good wet weekend. No nonsense of rain halfway through and the luck of the draw in who can get back to the pits for wet tyres, just wet throughout. Then we will get the measure of the current front runner's and new hotshot's relative abilities. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2019 It’s good that F1 has actually produced some racing drama in the last two and if they can reel Merc’s performance advantage in a bit imagine what’s possible! If Renault and Honda can both move the engine up a level it will be back to 4 or more drivers in the running. Max & Charles already so close but give them the power and get Daniel, Carlos, Lando and Nico in the mix too. We got free coverage and a classic race, this was what hooked me on F1 back in the 80’s but paying for the procession it’s been becoming didn’t interest me when there was better racing free with a Touring Cars, Moto GP and Rallying. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted July 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: Touring Cars, Now there's a series that needs to look at consistent application of the rules. Last round was deleted from the recordings without being watched having seen what went off in FB. Shame really as I used to watch all the support races too over the week following the event. It's all too cliquey for me, bit like F1 was in the 80s when Ferrari/Renault had sway and banned anything that threatened them. So sorry Mr Gow and your mates, but I'd rather watch F1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Collier Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Did I hear it right that Max' seat wasn't fully anchored to the car structure after Sebistiram's calling card? The FIA will have factors like that monitored soon enough, as that meant Max was in a car with a major element of the safety features at best compromised. Then it will be a compulsory immediate pit stop for rectification. That's what Max said during his interview with Sky after the race. Not sure if it's available for all to watch but here's his interview when he explained the issue at about 1:50 https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/f1/11763036/aggressive-battling-i-enjoy Edited July 16, 2019 by Gareth Collier 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted July 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2019 It's an interesting point, as that's clearly a massive safety issue. When Hamilton's head restraint came loose at Baku in 2017 he had to pit (with the time 'penalty' associated) for it to be fixed. Clearly had anyone in authority known about Max's seat then he would have had to retire. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted July 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2019 8 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: The FIA will have factors like that monitored soon enough, as that meant Max was in a car with a major element of the safety features at best compromised. Then it will be a compulsory immediate pit stop for rectification. If the seat mountings have ripped out, it will no be rectifiable. That will be a "black flag". 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 If Max's comments about his seat were heard on commentary, then officials would have heard it too. Since the car has been through scrutineering and there has been no post-race penalty, I assume it has been inspected & not considered dangerous? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 15 hours ago, 57xx said: If the seat mountings have ripped out, it will no be rectifiable. That will be a "black flag". That's still rectification of the primary issue, driver exposed to a hazard due to compromised safety system. He may burst a blood vessel in the garage in fury at having to be withdrawn from the race in a car he considered completely driveable: but that's a whole separate issue, he is safe from the potential consequences of broken seat mountings on track. 1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said: If Max's comments about his seat were heard on commentary, then officials would have heard it too. Since the car has been through scrutineering and there has been no post-race penalty, I assume it has been inspected & not considered dangerous? Cannot make that assumption. For a start is there a rule that requires a driver and/or the team to formally report such damage during the race? (Can they even detect it while the car is running around the track, or is it known to the driver alone in terms potentially as vague as 'my seat is a bit loose'?) If there isn't, then that's driver/team decision. I expect the damage has been found at inspection, but if there was no rule infringement then no penalty would apply. (And if there were a post-race penalty then in a rational world - so not F1! - it should surely apply to Sebastiram as the one who caused the damage leading to the infringement?) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Did anyone see the BIG bit on the Sky News on Sunday night, or even Monday about Lewis Hamilton's new record of 6 wins at the British Grand Prix? I must have either missed it, OR it wasn't mentioned. I watched both of Sky's evening News programs on Sunday and Monday morning from 8am when they were at the Cricket ground. Strange really, as SKY cover all the F1 live and were big at the British Grand Prix. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted July 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Andrew P said: Did anyone see the BIG bit on the Sky News on Sunday night, or even Monday about Lewis Hamilton's new record of 6 wins at the British Grand Prix? I must have either missed it, OR it wasn't mentioned. I watched both of Sky's evening News programs on Sunday and Monday morning from 8am when they were at the Cricket ground. Strange really, as SKY cover all the F1 live and were big at the British Grand Prix. same on BBC news Monday morning, loads of coverage of the marginal victory in the cricket but not a mention of F1 ...... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 4 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: That's still rectification of the primary issue, driver exposed to a hazard due to compromised safety system. He may burst a blood vessel in the garage in fury at having to be withdrawn from the race in a car he considered completely driveable: but that's a whole separate issue, he is safe from the potential consequences of broken seat mountings on track. Cannot make that assumption. For a start is there a rule that requires a driver and/or the team to formally report such damage during the race? (Can they even detect it while the car is running around the track, or is it known to the driver alone in terms potentially as vague as 'my seat is a bit loose'?) If there isn't, then that's driver/team decision. I expect the damage has been found at inspection, but if there was no rule infringement then no penalty would apply. (And if there were a post-race penalty then in a rational world - so not F1! - it should surely apply to Sebastiram as the one who caused the damage leading to the infringement?) I wonder if it was scrutineered after the race anyhow? Perhaps the top three are but not lower down the grid, Anyone know what the rules are for post race scrutineering? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted July 17, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 17, 2019 Article here . http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/scrutineering.html 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 17, 2019 Is it just his seat insert, which I’ve seen being stuck in, or the harness mountings? If the seat insert is moving it’s not a major issue to safety, although uncomfortable and requiring more bracing, than actually not being restrained in the car. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Sidecar Racer said: Article here . http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/scrutineering.html 24.6 seems to be the relevant section, as regards to the Verstappen issue? It was clearly not utilised. I guess it is up to another team to query, if they feel it necessary. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 seen this? Lewis takes Sir Frank Williams on a couple of hot laps round Silverstone 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy100 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 According to the news this morning Grosjean to be fired - Haas keen on Ocon - watch this space. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 4 hours ago, Bulleidboy100 said: According to the news this morning Grosjean to be fired - Haas keen on Ocon - watch this space. Indeed - as per this - still stated as a rumour from someone in the know on Reddit: https://www.planetf1.com/news/grosjean-to-be-fired-haas-keen-on-ocon/ An interesting snippet at the end - Wolff willing to release Ocon apparently. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 19, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mike Storey said: An interesting snippet at the end - Wolff willing to release Ocon apparently. Toto is able to be generous right now. And who would thank him for frustrating Ocon's chances of another F1 drive? 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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