Worst station improvements/modernisations 1950s to today

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... Perhaps the thinking is that

a) there's only one way out of those platforms anyway, and

b) if a bemused visitor has navigated the suburban system that far, they probably realise they need to change platforms.

That's probably the logical thought process that led to the result achieved. But those doing that thinking probably haven't attempted a seven day tour of multiple European countries with a mean 8+ hour offset from their home time zone, and with a knowledge of English that runs to 'please' and 'yes'. The particular lost foreigners judging from their airline tags were Korean. Shit happens!

[jjb1970]

Euston is possibly the most maligned station in the country. Take arguments about it's architectural style out of the debate for a moment and consider it from a user perspective. The open concourse (degraded by adding retail units as others have mentioned but still pretty open), the logical platform layout in a straight line, the clearly visible departure board and ease of access and egress make it a very efficient station for users. If looking at the architecture, for sure elements are less than attractive but the marble floor is very impressive and if you look up to the sky and notice the concourse ceiling you start to notice it is nothing like the bland box devoid of style or redeeming features it is often claimed to be.

[4630]

Euston is possibly the most maligned station in the country. 

 

 

My issue with Euston is not the building itself, but the subsequent 'tower blocks' and assorted retail units that were subsequently built in front of it.  They successfully hemmed the station in and reduced the open space available as Euston Square Gardens.

 

It will be interesting to see how the Euston station area is developed to accommodate HS2.

[Clive Mortimore]

Bedford Midland Road, transformed from a dirty, windy, cold, and uninviting place to a clean, bright, warm and welcoming place, and they call it progress.

 

As Ian said before many of the modern structures do not look as nice as those built by the Victorians but I for one would not liked to have worked in some of the rundown buildings I use to buy my tickets from. 

[Oldddudders]

The reconstruction of Euston, into the station we now know, was not easy, and ISTR being told there were all sorts of hurdles in getting the place to be as good as it is. Which is at least functional. The ubiquitous impedimenta of concourse tenancies again goes back to pressure on BR to make money. So new ideas of turnover-related rents were developed in the ‘80s, and Network Rail, which now runs most of the Major Stations because in 1996 the TOCs collectively said they didn’t want them - “Not our core business” - is hardly going to kick an income stream into touch.

[Nearholmer]

Another vote in favour of Euston, from me.

 

It has now been rather outclassed by the sheer volume of passengers and, of course, all that parcels space is now wrongly deployed, but it worked well as a station for 35+ years ........ the big open 'ha;;' is far more practical than a load of little spaces.

 

I do love interesting stations, but am no sentimentalist, having spent c25% of my career with a professional involvement in the design and function of exceedingly busy stations ......... whatever else, function absolutely has to lead, and a lot of old Victorian places simply had a form that didn't meet modern function. One does not need a multi-room, expensive to maintain, mock-italian pavilion to permit people to access and egress two platforms, so in many places they were genuinely more trouble than they were worth.

 

That having been said, 'functional' can be done very well, or very badly, and there are examples at both extremes, plus a big stodge of lacklustre stuff in the middle.

 

Most disappointing current station, given its function and volume of traffic? Probably Finsbury Park, unless a magic wand was waved over it in the past two or three years. It is really awkward as a tube/train/bus interchange, has its entrances and exits in the wrong places, is difficult and expensive for all the owners to maintain, yet is used by zillions of people every day.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Hobby]

New Street us a vast improvement on BR's version though most of the improvements are abice platform level though even at that level they've opened it up. Snow Hill is far worse.

[wombatofludham]

New Street us a vast improvement on BR's version though most of the improvements are abice platform level though even at that level they've opened it up. Snow Hill is far worse.

 

It's all very well criticising Snow Hill but what people seem to forget is when the station re-opened it was because WMPTE effectively paid for it.  The Department for Transport didn't want to know, (as incidentally they didn't want to know about the Cross City electrification until the MP for Lichfield and Tamworth committed suicide and suddenly it looked like they would lose the seat.  Amazingly the money was found for the electrification of what Whitehall described once as a "rural branch line") so most of the funding came from local sources.  That meant there wasn't a huge amount available.  The old station site had become a well used car park and the City Council was concerned about the loss of parking (it was far more pro car back then than today) so the new station had to have a new car park on top of it.  The entrance off Snow Hill had to have commercial office blocks to help fund the scheme.  

 

What would you have preferred, the station not re-open or what you have now?  That was the choice in the 1980s.

 

The same applies to places like West Yorkshire, where they had a successful programme of re-opening stations on existing lines - but only by building basic wooden platforms and bus shelters, and replacing trains with Pacers.  The view - rightly in my opinion - was better a basic train and station that a replacement bus or using the car.  That policy bore fruit when eventually traffic grew to the point where the Aire Valley lines justified electrification.  In the Midlands the Chase line is exactly the same, a line the Government didn't want to re-open, so it had to be done on the cheap, but which is now being electrified and with improved line speeds and signalling.

 

Personally, I'd rather an open basic station with decent train service or a modern simple building where the staff have good working conditions than a "heritage" station with loads of no longer needed derelict rooms and an continuous list of annual repairs which is an expensive, unworkable anachronism.  The railway is there to move people and goods not provide gricers with photo opportunities.

[Reorte]

A better challenge would be to find a rural station which has been improved over the last 60 years (not including heritage sites).  

Improved since 60 years ago or just from some nadir during that 60 year period? Quite a few are better than they were twenty or thirty years ago. The most unchanged were probably tattier 60 years ago than they are now so are probably nicer places to be than they were then (at a guess, I wasn't around then to tell for sure!), if you're not a rail enthusiast noticing things like the vanished goods yards and signal boxes. For example the Settle-Carlisle stations are in decent condition these days (the roof was starting to fall in at Ribblehead in the mid 90s).

[john new]

It's all very well criticising Snow Hill but what people seem to forget is when the station re-opened it was because WMPTE effectively paid for it.  The Department for Transport didn't want to know, (as incidentally they didn't want to know about the Cross City electrification until the MP for Lichfield and Tamworth committed suicide and suddenly it looked like they would lose the seat.  Amazingly the money was found for the electrification of what Whitehall described once as a "rural branch line") so most of the funding came from local sources.  That meant there wasn't a huge amount available.  The old station site had become a well used car park and the City Council was concerned about the loss of parking (it was far more pro car back then than today) so the new station had to have a new car park on top of it.  The entrance off Snow Hill had to have commercial office blocks to help fund the scheme.  

 

What would you have preferred, the station not re-open or what you have now?  That was the choice in the 1980s.

 

The same applies to places like West Yorkshire, where they had a successful programme of re-opening stations on existing lines - but only by building basic wooden platforms and bus shelters, and replacing trains with Pacers.  The view - rightly in my opinion - was better a basic train and station that a replacement bus or using the car.  That policy bore fruit when eventually traffic grew to the point where the Aire Valley lines justified electrification.  In the Midlands the Chase line is exactly the same, a line the Government didn't want to re-open, so it had to be done on the cheap, but which is now being electrified and with improved line speeds and signalling.

 

Personally, I'd rather an open basic station with decent train service or a modern simple building where the staff have good working conditions than a "heritage" station with loads of no longer needed derelict rooms and an continuous list of annual repairs which is an expensive, unworkable anachronism.  The railway is there to move people and goods not provide gricers with photo opportunities.

Concur, need to go to Sparkford tomorrow, the direct train from Weymouth still goes through the village and passes within 50 yards of where I am driving to. Unfortunately Sparkford station was closed in the 60s. A bus shelterised station would have sufficed.

[Hobby]

We were asked about poor stations not who built or rebuilt them and financing. Snow Hill is poor as is New Street. If the two SH is the worse. Quite frankly I don't care who paid for it.

[wombatofludham]

 

A better challenge would be to find a rural station which has been improved over the last 60 years (not including heritage sites).  

 

One urban station that today is much better than when built is Canley near Coventry.  It was a wartime built halt to serve the adjacent Standard Triumph plant and was built as a basic emergency reinforced structure typical of wartime structures.  When the politicians at the West Midlands Passenger Transport Authority voted against it's closure (Railtrack wanted to close it to free up paths citing it's low useage) and instead chose to rebuild it and provide a park and ride facility, it was rebuilt using the "VSB90" style of "chalet" station, a basic but traditional style pitched roof, brick and slate structure which had been used widely in the Midlands having first been used on the Southern.  In addition, in accordance with the PTA "Public Art" policy, Worcester artist John McKenna was invited to come up with a series of art installations in and around the station and car park.  These included a blue kangaroo on the façade (the station is in Sir Henry Parkes Rd, named after the Coventry born man who first brought Australia together as a Commonwealth), a plaque in the booking hall illustrating some of the history of the area and the bollards and height restrictor in the car park were made to represent car parts, an allusion to the Standard Triumph works the station was built to serve.  Immediately the staff adopted their new station by bringing in potted plants and a table with magazines, and the local Coventry makers of the car park furniture would not only take clients to see their castings when tendering for business, but also would pop out and repair any damage without asking.  From an unloved station in terminal decline, it has been transformed into a station which has had the park and ride facility increased, and is an attractive gateway to the rail network, where the clever integration of clean, modern architecture and art, plus the provision of a safe car park, has saved the station.  Of course I am a bit biased as I was involved peripherally in the project, but it does show how a fairly awful station, built of necessity in a way that minimised materials and manpower but which could never be described as attractive, can be rejuvenated by use of standard modern designs "with a twist".

 

Lea Hall on the same line is another case study.  The 1930s LMS buildings at street level had been set alight twice and it was another station seen as being at threat.  Again, the politicians at the PTA voted to rebuild the station and, surprisingly given the amount of vandalism in the area, put in some park and ride.  Again artists were involved but to try and get some ownership by the local youths, a community artist group were recruited who worked not only with the local youths but with local user groups, schools, groups for the elderly, basically anyone in the area to develop the station design.  One thing the artists found was that users complained about the station was "facing the wrong way" - it transpired the LMS built the station facing what it thought would be new housing development, but, when after the war the Green Belt was established, never got built.  So the new building was turned to face the existing housing.  Each group contributed a mosaic which is in the booking hall, and the overall concept was based on the ideas generated by the local youths who had probably been behind a lot of the trouble at the station.  The result was an immediate reduction in vandalism and trouble, which was recognised by the Department of Transport's own research.  Whilst the end result is definitely not to everyone's taste, being bright and gaudy, and the existing platform structures were kept, albeit modestly refurbished, again it shows that there are ways of reducing anti social behaviour that don't need replacing everything with brick bunkers and treating your customers like they can't be trusted with nice things.  It also shows that not all local politicians are idiots and sometimes they might just have a better solution than naturally cautious officers. 

 

 

Playcraft made a kit for Macclesfield Station, not quite to scale but again it looked good for that era.

 

 

It was available in more than one size and with other WCML names IIRC.

 

I have often wondered if the tooling is still around somewhere. It would be a useful kit for Hornby to reissue.

 

Actually the Pola/Playcraft "Macclesfield " and "Bletchley" stations are not to bad scale wise but are definitely closer to the "System X" designs first tried on the Styal Line rather than the real life stations.  I've sourced two from the Bay of Thief and will be using them as the basis for my "Wednesford" layout, one at street level and one on the platform in the style of Burton on Trent.  Painted up they come up nicely and I agree it would be nice if the toolings were still around.  They were last issued as "Pola Quick" kits in the late 60s and 70s so I'm not sure if the tools are still around.  They do come up from time to time on the Bay though.

[E3109]

The 1960s modernised stations have a tendency to be somewhat brutal to contemporary eyes, Ditton was mentioned and Euston of course.

That said, I do like it that Coventry retains Transport typeface and Manchester Oxford Rd surely deserves its listed status.

 

The nameplate from 46240 is a nice touch on the overbridge though and apparently the old internal number for Cov PSB was.... 46240!

 

It would be great if Euston's Doric Arch were reinstated there at some point though, once/if HS2 happens, while retaining the current building.

Worst thing about that labyrinthine hellhole is the masses of passengers having to occupy the main hall, needing to stare up at the screens for the next departure.

Edited January 24, 2019 by E3109

[wombatofludham]

We were asked about poor stations not who built or rebuilt them and financing. Snow Hill is poor as is New Street. If the two SH is the worse. Quite frankly I don't care who paid for it.

 

Well you should.  Calling it a poor station does those who fought long and hard to re-instate the station and line, against opposition from the Government a dis-service.  A lot of dedicated people who could see the benefits of reopening the station and line worked long and hard to get the station built and you and others sniffily dismissing it as poor is an insult to their work.  Yes it was compromised aesthetically but those compromises were necessary to get the station.  You can't separate the two issues, if the compromises hadn't been implemented there would be no station.

 

Perhaps aesthetically you'd prefer a raft of office blocks and no station than compromise and have a busy, popular station with a car park for a roof? 

[Reorte]

Any thoughts on the fall of once-grand stations and their utilitarian replacements:

 

Manchester Victoria, Blackburn, Rugby, Fenchurch St...add your own?

Manchester Victoria has at least retained its booking hall, complete with the map, and the exterior on that side. It's a few years since I've been there, the main platforms were pretty grim then and AFAIK haven't changed much but there are plenty that have suffered worse.

[Hobby]

We were asked a question and I have stated my views. As far as I am concerned who paid for it isn't relevant to how ugly it looks. You are entitled to your opinion and me mine, why can't you just leave it there.

 

New Street is criticised a lot but appart from complete closure to sort out the platforms they've done as much as they can and in my view at concourse level it's miles ahead of what came before...

 

Again this is my take on it. Please dobt knock me for gaving views different to yours.

[john new]

Improved - Moorthope, W Yorks thanks to community engagement, now it even has decent toilets and a nice cafe. 

[Mike Storey]

The reconstruction of Euston, into the station we now know, was not easy, and ISTR being told there were all sorts of hurdles in getting the place to be as good as it is. Which is at least functional. The ubiquitous impedimenta of concourse tenancies again goes back to pressure on BR to make money. So new ideas of turnover-related rents were developed in the ‘80s, and Network Rail, which now runs most of the Major Stations because in 1996 the TOCs collectively said they didn’t want them - “Not our core business” - is hardly going to kick an income stream into touch.

 

Er...Point of Order Chair: The "new" rental ideas of the 1980's were ineffectual on main tenants, as most were comfortably tied in to traditional commercial tenancies which they would only change voluntarily. The real change came when Railtrack Major Stations arrived, brought in retailing specialists from BAA, and introduced MGR (Minimum Guaranteed Rentals) where RT would receive a minimum whatever the turnover (or profit or lack thereof) of the tenant. This basically ended up contributing to the bankruptcy of some well known chains, such as Tie Rack. It was Railtrack that pretty well doubled the number of retail units on Euston's concourse, including what became Boot's second most profitable outlet in the entire UK, (along with vast increases at most of the original 14 Major Stations). But pressure from the Major Stations Operations Team (which included me at the time), TOCs and passengers, led Network Rail to halve the number of units at Euston within a fairly short space of time after taking over. They then abolished Major Stations as a controlling entity (bar a few HQ support specialists), passing each to the relevant Route to run, so that operational and customer issues would feature more heavily. 

 

So whilst the financial incentive is still there (assuming retail contracts have not changed much), NR have been cognisant of other views and have acted. Note the relative lack of such units to congest the new Kings Cross concourse.

[jonny777]

 

It would be great if Euston's Doric Arch were reinstated there at some point though, once/if HS2 happens, while retaining the current building.

Worst thing about that labyrinthine hellhole is the masses of passengers having to occupy the main hall, needing to stare up at the screens for the next departure.

 

 

At least at Euston they have space to do that in, whereas at Kings Cross everyone staring at screens are confined to a far smaller area (if you wish to see the screens) at the west side of the station. Paddington is slightly better as there are a number of seats facing the screens.

 

I think it is a feature (staring at screens) of most London termini now, because no one is allowed to know which platform a long distance train will depart from until about 5 minutes before it departs (or so it seems to me); followed by an unseemly race down the correct platform, and then a selfish scramble for seats which involves the first person into the carriage blocking the aisle until they have placed all their bags out of the way, decided if they are going to sit by the window or not, and then taken their coat/jacket off, while the rest of the world has to wait before they can get any further. 

 

Sorry to be such a misery, but I have pulled a hamstring in my leg - and it hurts. 

[adb968008]

Just pick any Manchester suburban station in the 1980’s.

Make half the platform derelict, covered in weeds, with boarded up waiting room, but a windowless bus shelter, better still foregoe 3 sides of the waiting room, but leave the platform wall as a mismatch of height / colour reflecting Dark exterior walks, and what was considered rear walls of porters room, waiting room etc that have been demolished but the rear wall left as a retaining wall.

Add a station building, but forcibly remove it leave a raw concrete base and a scattering of red bricks

For the platform make it an unorganised mess of stones, cobbles, tarmac, concrete, asphalt etc.

Put an upturned burnt out car in the car park.

Remove any glass

Add drug paraphenalia in the fourfoot.

 

You could go single line, remove 1 track (very few single lines left their former second line in situe), but fill the second line with weeds and sleeper outlines, with the odd sleeper. The other platform could remain, just make it fully overgrown.

 

Outside the station you need a row of burnt out terraces, boarded up, the last one partially collapsing.

Then add a pub called the Lord Nelson, with at least one raw wood covered window, with an advert for an Elvis band in the Dorchester room with a bling sparkling wine promo.

And a Chinese takeaway next door, room for more .. a Chippy. (No kebabs or indian in the 1980’s) or a 50p store. (Pre £1 shops in those days).

 

Make sure every second car on the road is a police car and add a riot van, plus various decrepit white transit vans, and a flatbed with advertising for “we buy scrap” on the side.

add an advertisement board for Asda indicating a “whoops 10p sale”, another for Carling black label, if youve space for more you can include adverts for Butlins, Blackpool Tower, Benson & Hedges and Coop. Just make sure you rip off the advert at the bottom edges, you can miss part of a panel if you like... for example drop the L of Blackpool.

 

In the back drop include a factory mill in the process of demolition.

You’ll not go wrong putting a scrap yard or a car mechanics yard, with halfs of cars of differing states in what was a goods yard, dogs and lots of barbed wire.

Along the trackside, between a badly damaged fence and the track add detrious like a sofa, bed, washing machine, endless empty drinks cans, discarded childrens toys.

Dont park any cars in the side street, except 1, on bricks, with broken glass in the road.

Grafiti, loads of it, but mostly white (people didnt go fully new york in those days, they couldnt afford more than one can of paint).

 

Dont bother with station signs, most will have been nicked, the main station sign outside should have holes in it and letters missing.

Still got space, add a factory fence, with locked factory gates, behind the fence just leave a brown field of rubble. (No for sale sign, or sold for development.. in the 1980’s there was no signs of hope).

 

 

The good thing about modelling this, is you cant make mistakes with paint.. there wasnt any picassos in the neighbourhood for sure.

 

Make sure in your rolling stock, a good few coaches have shattered windows.

It would be possible to model some lines with a single 2 car blue class 101 for the full day, but to liven it up add a blue grey 101. For more adventure include class 104, 108, 110 or even mix the trailers, class 128.

For freight, class 24/5/31/40/45/46/47/50 all in blue. 16ton minerals, lots of them, any length train you like, add in mixes of battered HUO, 21t mineral, box van, HEAs. Other includes CCT, GUV, BG mixed parcels (red bank vans could be very lengthy). Different areas could include the Salford Binliner, Cawoods Coal (open topped ISO containers of coal on freightliner wagons), RMC, ICI hoppers, BOC tanks, freightliners, Steel BAAs, MGR, 100t TEAs, Civil Engs and Speedlink workings.

At this time few commuted on suburban trains, they just went betwen major stations (Bolton, Wigan, Chorley etc), so you dont need many stopping services, but the freight is what livened it all up.

 

(You can see ive extensively researched this).

 

Examples that come to mind include... Darwen, Moses Gate, Ashburys, Denton, Reddish south, Blackrod, Clifton, Walkden, Whitefield, Radcliffe, anything upto Burnley, Salford, anything to Wigan, anything between Eccles to Warrington, Oldham loop the list is endless.

Manchesters suburban railway stations werent run on a budget, there just wasnt any money.. in revenue or for maintenace, but for Whitehall paying crews wages and providing fuel there wouldnt have been any trains either at these unstaffed stations, many which had hourly services. The 1980’s was as low as it got.

 

One thing i didnt mention in this list was passengers, there just wasnt any, nor people on the streets outside. Passngers on the train usually all read newspapers to avoid looking outside. Propylen had moved on to cars and buses, it was safer, faster, cheaper and often branchlines that fed this stations had gone. The only reason they survived was they cost nothing to run, and it was politically intolerant to close them.

 

The turning point was the arrival 142’s and 150’s. GMPTE / Regional Railways did a miracle for the north west’s railways. The branding effort alone, together with repainting, signage and maintenance recovered them substantially. What followed was the Lazarus recovery, with lines like Blackburn - Helifield saved and services back to Clitheroe, re opened stations like Mills Hill, Hazel Grove chord, Windsor link etc. but there are still some stations that have still yet to feel the love.

 

Make sure before you start to model it, you have a stiff drink, and watch something mind numbingly happy afterwards. Indeed modelling this could be a cure for depression, as you could see how bad things really could be, but it would be an eye opening layout, especially if in parallel someone made a before (1960’s and an after 2000’s layout)... all I need be is a simple 2 track 6ft layout (+ fiddle) between two overbridges or a tunnel with a 4ft platform.., i’d Even run it at a 45degree angle across the table width (giving a nearly 7ft straight) to give differing perspective of coming at visitors from an angle rather than a usual left to right.

Edited January 24, 2019 by adb968008

[Nearholmer]

The Doric Arch qu estion is a funny old thing.

 

Most people transit the Euston complex without going properly outside (the bus interchange is sort of half outside) so don’t really see the ‘streetscape’ view of the station when coming or going, and are grateful for not getting rained on.

 

So, reinstating the arch would add to the ambience of the area, but it might add very little to the most users’ perception of the station, unless it was somehow made ‘part of the inside’.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Nearholmer

[E3109]

You could add to that, ADB, stations such as Hartford where the platform edges have been removed at the extremities in order to (as I understand it) reduce the TOC leasing fees to NR.

Hartford used to have one or two intercity services back in the day, so the extra length was warranted but has nobody thought this through in the current era?

What about in an emergency when a Pendo needs evacuating, yes I know they have SDO but even so the evacuation could be done more quickly if more/all doors were available.

From a purely practical sense the copings should've stayed put, and just to add that had they been retained then station overruns would've been reduced.

 

It's the economics of the madhouse, I tell thee...

[caradoc]

Bedford Midland Road, transformed from a dirty, windy, cold, and uninviting place to a clean, bright, warm and welcoming place, and they call it progress.

 

As Ian said before many of the modern structures do not look as nice as those built by the Victorians but I for one would not liked to have worked in some of the rundown buildings I use to buy my tickets from. 

 

Speaking of Bedford, St Johns (during its time as a terminus) was surely one of the most desolate stations on BR, until the logical step of diverting the service to Midland was taken.

[Pete the Elaner]

It would be great if Euston's Doric Arch were reinstated there at some point though, once/if HS2 happens, while retaining the current building.

Worst thing about that labyrinthine hellhole is the masses of passengers having to occupy the main hall, needing to stare up at the screens for the next departure.

Euston is designed around its concourse. It is warm dry, bright & clean. You can see the screens from most of it & you can understand announcements clearly.

There is no way the old Euston could cope with today's number of passengers.

If there is a delay, I like the option of being able to buy a magazine or get a snack/drink without going to far.

 

& you call this a hellhole?

[E3109]

Yes, but mainly because the platforms are only advertised 5 minutes before departure.

I believe that RTT gets round that, and I must admit that I used to nip up to the Control Room occasionally, with their TOPS/TRUST access to platform allocations.

Edited January 24, 2019 by E3109