Pace Yourself - photos of the final(?) Pacer countdown

[cheesysmith]

On 26/07/2019 at 10:25, Wheatley said:

 

155s had problems with the heavy plug doors when new, they worked fine on straight and level track but on a cant the door proving microswitches were unreliable. They all went back to Leyland for re-working which helped a bit, but it was not really solved until the depot staff got some experience with setting them up for real world use.

 

158s had issues with the air con, as built there were something like nine separate distribution fans in each vehicle, any single failure overloaded the others and then they all went. The other issue was them disappearing from track circuits, that was fixed in the short term by running them coupled to something with tread brakes on high risk routes.  

 

The only issue I remember with 156s was that there were never enough of them !

Don't forget the 158 also had the problem of body shell fractures on the bogie has dampers mounting point. The 156 worked out of the box as it was just a longer 150, and the 153 was just a way to get rid of the old DMUs by doubling the number of units RR had. There is only one or two lines left where they are not too small, and if modified for the disabled regs become pointless for passengers. They only have a future as attached to other units to make 3 cars as they are now.

[adb968008]

158’s had lots of problems in Scotland in their first winter.

 

They were even running as 156/158 hybrids, as the 156’s had ploughs.

At inverness at 2 car hybrid would arrive with the 156 car at the front and needed to be turned on the far north triangle for reverse journey.

snow they didnt like.

[Market65]

It was not just Scotland that the 158’s had problems on first introduction. Down here, in East Yorkshire, on the services they were scheduled to work out of Hull, it was also a case of a two car unit being one 158 car and the other a 156 car. I have the feeling it was a problem with the 158’s everywhere, there just don’t seem to be very many, if any, if photo’s of the hybrid two car sets. Sadly I didn’t take any photo’s of them and I cannot recall why. Perhaps it all happened so quickly for I know those hybrid units did not last too long before all was back to normal, with the fractures and inability to properly work the track circuiting made good.

 

Regarding the 153’s. Sadly it’s not just the toilets that are the problem or the door controls, PIS or other modifications that would be needed to keep them going for another few years. It has been reported that the bodies are in a pretty poor condition and they would need extensive rebuilding to enable them to continue in use. Corrosion of the steel bodies is the big problem, as it is with the 142’s, since it’s adapted Leyland National bus bodywork. This corrosion also is affecting the two car 155’s that remain. Work has been carried out on the bodies of the 155’s but they are not in good condition, overall, with a patching type job on the corroded bodies, and will need to be withdrawn from service sooner rather than later. 

If only aluminium had been used instead of steel, but it’s too late now, the damage has been done. Hence it’s the 144’s that are to carry on into next year and not the 142’s. Their bodies are in a good condition being aluminium. Plus they seem better all round compared to a 142. 143’s could be used too if they were at Northern’s disposal.

 

Best regards,

 

 Rob.

[Owd Bob]

I keep finding these 'Take a pic' of anything to use up the end of roll' negs'  An early frosty & misty morn' on Ince Moss Wigan in the early '90's see's 142 041 climbing up the brew towards Merseyside. 

 

[Market65]

Today, I was in Hull Paragon station again, on my way to York, and saw 142071 departing on the 12.53 to Doncaster and Sheffield. A class 2 service which was well packed with passengers too. It squealed and banged it’s way out of the station and over the station throat in traditional style.

Here’s a couple of photo’s I took of that Pacer.

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 Rob.

[cheesysmith]

The 158/156 combo was because of the track circuit issues. There were even a adaptor plates made up for the gangways because the intermediate gangways on the 158 are wider than standard. This was all caused by the bogies on the 158 riding too well. Because the total lack of hunting they don't wear the muck of the wheels.

[31A]

Modern and less so at York station this afternoon.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Modern and modernised, I think - that's the updated super-Pacer

[Market65]

Yes, 144012 with those terrible seats and over enthusiastic heating! 

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Am I right in thinking that the first pacer is removed from traffic this month by Northern? 

 

Does anyone know the plans/schedule for the pacers withdrawal? Also are they to be scrapped straight away alike the Great Northern Class 313s? If not does anyone have any idea where they will be stored? 

 

Personally, I would like to think that Northern will remove a good handful of the worst pacers this month to really kick start their withdrawal and assure customers that better times are coming. I do like the pacers and always have done but they have seen their time now and in current times passengers in the north are in need of better. 

 

I have seen lots of positive comments on social media by happy passengers on board 195s. 

 

Thank you in advance. 

[Market65]

A small number are due to be withdrawn by the end of the month. That’s really the only information at the moment. Hopefully 142096 will be amongst the first tranche of withdrawals since it is rotting around it’s passenger saloon windows amongst other things.

[4630]

I've not seen any lists published anywhere which gives a date of withdrawal for individual units.  Unlike for the class 91s where a list, based around planned maintenance, was available.

 

Over the past six months Northern has received a significant influx of classes 156, 158 and 170, mostly from ScotRail, but also some class 150 and 153 from First Great Western.  Even allowing for units away for refurbishment there now seems to be sufficient available units for Northern to keep specific classes rostered to specific and more appropriate duties.  Previously the 'Northern random unit generator' would seem to allocate just about anything that was serviceable.

 

It is noticeable though, certainly on the services that I see around the Calder Valley, that both 142s and 144s are (fortunately!) now becoming more confined to shorter journeys.  These are for units that are allocated to Neville Hill T&RSMD.   For example, at the beginning of the year, class 142s were pretty regular on Leeds-Southport services, whereas I can't recall seeing one on that service at all recently. 

 

The latest whisper that I've heard is that some of the 3 car class 144s are likely now to be the last to go.  As I recall, this is the opposite of what Northern originally proposed.

 

Currently around Huddersfield, 144s seem the most regular on Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford Interchange and Huddersfield to Sheffield via Barnsley services.  Class 142s are still common though.   

Edited August 1, 2019 by 4630

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

On 01/08/2019 at 19:44, Market65 said:

A small number are due to be withdrawn by the end of the month. That’s really the only information at the moment. Hopefully 142096 will be amongst the first tranche of withdrawals since it is rotting around it’s passenger saloon windows amongst other things.

 

On 01/08/2019 at 20:19, 4630 said:

I've not seen any lists published anywhere which gives a date of withdrawal for individual units.  Unlike for the class 91s where a list, based around planned maintenance, was available.

 

Over the past six months Northern has received a significant influx of classes 156, 158 and 170, mostly from ScotRail, but also some class 150 and 153 from First Great Western.  Even allowing for units away for refurbishment there now seems to be sufficient available units for Northern to keep specific classes rostered to specific and more appropriate duties.  Previously the 'Northern random unit generator' would seem to allocate just about anything that was serviceable.

 

It is noticeable though, certainly on the services that I see around the Calder Valley, that both 142s and 144s are (fortunately!) now becoming more confined to shorter journeys.  These are for units that are allocated to Neville Hill T&RSMD.   For example, at the beginning of the year, class 142s were pretty regular on Leeds-Southport services, whereas I can't recall seeing one on that service at all recently. 

 

The latest whisper that I've heard is that some of the 3 car class 144s are likely now to be the last to go.  As I recall, this is the opposite of what Northern originally proposed.

 

Currently around Huddersfield, 144s seem the most regular on Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford Interchange and Huddersfield to Sheffield via Barnsley services.  Class 142s are still common though.   

 

Thank you for the replies and the info. 

 

I did read a few weeks ago that some pacers may have to be running on the mainline in service into 2020. Obviously that will miss the target of having them all out of service by December 2019. On a better note I have also read that at least nine 195s are now in service. So things are heading in the right direction, I just hope that as the year goes on we see more pacer withdrawals and that we don't have that many going forward into 2020. 

 

Something I would be interested to know is what are staff at Northern making the decisions on pacer withdrawals based on. Is it practical things for passengers such as water leaking in windows, toilets out of use, rot etc or is it mechanically if a unit runs well or not that is the decider as to what goes first and what stays longer. 

 

I agree, that their has been some significant changes recently. There is now rarely any 142s or 144s on the Leeds to Knaresborough/Harrogate runs and returns. This is mostly operated now by 170s and 150s if they are unavailable. I have seen the improvements as well. There is much more room on early morning services compared to pacers and their is even now free seats on some occasions. The 170s are also really smooth runners and the ones that are directly from ScotRail still retain the first class area so that offers some nice little extras for no extra cost. I just hope that the improvements continue and that removing the pacers isn't delayed further. 

[vulcan product fan]

To days fun in the sun at Doncaster 142050 on a service to Adwick 

[Market65]

I don’t know if it’s me, or the camera,  but it looks as if the underframe of 142050 in that previous photo’ has a small amount of sag. Also the skirting under the cab seems ever so slightly crooked, going downwards to the drivers side. Again it could me my eyes playing tricks. 

 

Regards,

 

 Rob.

[vulcan product fan]

It must have had a hard life .

[Market65]

I’ve just seen that the Pacer group, on FB, has reported that Northern are to withdraw the first Pacers on Monday, 12th August. They are the following units: 142016/21/2/5 and 66. Also, the following have since been added to that list for withdrawal the same day: 012, 13, 14, 30 and 33. 

If this information is correct that’s 10 142’s to be withdrawn, in the first batch, in total. It doesn’t include 142096 with the window rot, as I photographed earlier in late June. I thought that one might have been in the first batch in view of it’s poor condition.

Anyway, I hope this might be of some help.

 

Regards,

 

Rob.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

5 minutes ago, Market65 said:

I’ve just seen that the Pacer group, on FB, has reported that Northern are to withdraw the first Pacers on Monday, 12th August. They are the following units: 142016/21/2/5 and 66. Also, the following have since been added to that list for withdrawal the same day: 012, 13, 14, 30 and 33. 

If this information is correct that’s 10 142’s to be withdrawn, in the first batch, in total. It doesn’t include 142096 with the window rot, as I photographed earlier in late June. I thought that one might have been in the first batch in view of it’s poor condition.

Anyway, I hope this might be of some help.

 

Regards,

 

Rob.

 

Thanks for posting this info. I like to follow withdrawals, stored locos etc.  

 

Have to say I am shocked to see ten withdrawals in the initial batch. Maybe this is because their are now ten new 195s in service. I was only expecting four or five at the most to be withdrawn initially. If all ten are withdrawn in just over a week this is a really positive start to further changes and development of travel in the north. 

 

Now it's going to be interesting to see where Northern store their withdrawn 142s. 

 

I also wonder if Northern will promote alike LNER recently with the retirement of 91108, the first batch of pacer withdrawals. 

[Welly]

16 minutes ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

I also wonder if Northern will promote alike LNER recently with the retirement of 91108, the first batch of pacer withdrawals. 

I wouldn't think so since 91108 was put back into use for a few more days. I reckon that there will be more publicity over the withdrawal of the last Pacer!

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

3 minutes ago, Welly said:

I wouldn't think so since 91108 was put back into use for a few more days. I reckon that there will be more publicity over the withdrawal of the last Pacer!

 

Haha, didn't think of it that way. Or maybe their will be publicity both at the start and at the end of the pacer withdrawals. Either way it will be interesting to see what publicity their is regarding the pacers. 

[royaloak]

57 minutes ago, Market65 said:

I’ve just seen that the Pacer group, on FB, has reported that Northern are to withdraw the first Pacers on Monday, 12th August. They are the following units: 142016/21/2/5 and 66. Also, the following have since been added to that list for withdrawal the same day: 012, 13, 14, 30 and 33. 

First 5 are Heaton based, the second 5 are Newton Heath.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

5 minutes ago, royaloak said:

First 5 are Heaton based, the second 5 are Newton Heath.

 

Thanks for posting this info. Funny you should, because I was going to ask where these pacers were based on my comment above, but didn't want to mention too much in one comment. 

[Claude_Dreyfus]

 

One of the hit-listed examples - 142033 - heads away from Todmorden with a Wigan service, accompanied by 150102. 15th June 2019

[vulcan product fan]

Another one from yesterday 142046 on a service to leeds full of race goes who were very merry 

[eastwestdivide]

Here's another from that hit list of first withdrawals, 142022 on diversion in 2013 at Woodburn Jn, Sheffield: