Pace Yourself - photos of the final(?) Pacer countdown

[jessy1692]

Look North reporting that Northern are going to put 3 pacers up as prizes in a competion when they are retired if anyone wants one

BBC News - Pacer trains 'could be used as village halls' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48434379

 

Edit, looks like me & Simon posted at same time...

Edited May 28, 2019 by jessy1692

[Steamport Southport]

Why can't they just give them to heritage railways?

 

Ideal for any of them looking to run a proper service.

 

 

Jason

[caradoc]

Is there no part of the North Sea that requires artificial reefs, as was done with old New York subway cars ?

 

[Northmoor]

45 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Why can't they just give them to heritage railways?

 

Ideal for any of them looking to run a proper service.

 

1.  Because if there was actual demand for a "proper service" on the route preserved, it probably wouldn't have closed in the first place.

2.  Almost no preserved railway could staff a year-round public service (and charge an attractive fare for it).

3.  Why would the public want to travel for pleasure/commute on a railway using stock declared, by legislation, to be unfit for the national network?

[Steamport Southport]

4 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

1.  Because if there was actual demand for a "proper service" on the route preserved, it probably wouldn't have closed in the first place.

2.  Almost no preserved railway could staff a year-round public service (and charge an attractive fare for it).

3.  Why would the public want to travel for pleasure/commute on a railway using stock declared, by legislation, to be unfit for the national network?

 

Plenty of railways could run a proper service. Just because a railway closed in 1950s doesn't mean it couldn't be profitable in the future. Traffic requirements in the 1950s and 1960s are different from now. Roads are at gridlock and there are plenty of schemes to reopen railways. They've just opened the Halton Curve by me.

 

Pacers are cheap to operate, cheap and easy to maintain and durable. If they are unfit for the national network then that also applies to all rolling stock and locomotives from Flying Scotsman to HSTs. No rolling stock on heritage railways have retention toilets. Should we scrap the lot then?

 

Beggars belief that some wouldn't want to save as much useful stock as possible just because they have a blinkered attitude.

 

 

Jason

[31A]

The Weardale Railway has already got a Pacer, of the Class 141 variety.  I'm not sure whether they still use it, but they did when I rode on it in 2007 and it looked very smart then:

 

[sir douglas]

23 hours ago, Northmoor said:

3.  Why would the public want to travel for pleasure/commute on a railway using stock declared, by legislation, to be unfit for the national network?

 

but a lot of stock on heritage railways are un fit for modern mainline use but they are still popular with passengers

[amwells]

2 hours ago, 31A said:

The Weardale Railway has already got a Pacer, of the Class 141 variety.  I'm not sure whether they still use it, but they did when I rode on it in 2007 and it looked very smart then:

 

 

Scrapped by all accounts

[31A]

1 minute ago, amwells said:

 

Scrapped by all accounts

 

What a pity!  It looked really smart then, on the inside as well.

 

[Northmoor]

On 28/05/2019 at 20:17, Steamport Southport said:

 

Plenty of railways could run a proper service. Just because a railway closed in 1950s doesn't mean it couldn't be profitable in the future. Traffic requirements in the 1950s and 1960s are different from now. Roads are at gridlock and there are plenty of schemes to reopen railways. They've just opened the Halton Curve by me.

 

Pacers are cheap to operate, cheap and easy to maintain and durable. If they are unfit for the national network then that also applies to all rolling stock and locomotives from Flying Scotsman to HSTs. No rolling stock on heritage railways have retention toilets. Should we scrap the lot then?

 

Beggars belief that some wouldn't want to save as much useful stock as possible just because they have a blinkered attitude.

 

Perhaps I didn't make my points well, but you've not actually contradicted anything I wrote.  Yes, routes like Halton Curve have reopened which is to be commended, but name me a PRESERVED railway that has successfully run a regular PUBLIC service.  Many have tried and abandoned it (e.g. Paignton & Dartmouth), one or two have almost bankrupted themselves trying to prove the managers of the 1950s and 60s wrong (Wensleydale Railway).  This is because traffic gridlock is an urban problem where railways are effective, preserved railways are almost all rural railways, which never made money; six cars stuck behind a tractor isn't gridlock that justifies a rail service.  I grew up in rural Wales and now work in London, I have experience of both.

 

1 hour ago, sir douglas said:

 

but a lot of stock on heritage railways are un fit for modern mainline use but they are still popular with passengers

 

Because of the curiosity/rarity factor.  If it was something they resented commuting on last year, they wouldn't be so keen.  Perhaps after ten years, some will have the morbid curiosity to travel on a Pacer again, but by that time they will have been parked up for a decade......

[31A]

Old and new at Doncaster station this afternoon:

 

 

I saw three of the new Class 331 electric units there this afternoon - one set off on a test run to Wakefield.  There was also a 769 (hybrid Class 319 conversion) in the Works sidings opposite the station.

Edited May 30, 2019 by 31A
Typo!

[dave parker]

On ‎28‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 19:03, jessy1692 said:

Look North reporting that Northern are going to put 3 pacers up as prizes in a competion when they are retired if anyone wants one

BBC News - Pacer trains 'could be used as village halls' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48434379

 

Edit, looks like me & Simon posted at same time...

wonder if decal and paint manufactures will produce village hall livery

[eastwestdivide]

27 minutes ago, dave parker said:

wonder if decal and paint manufactures will produce village hall livery

I've heard of the Village Green Preservation Society, and there's also something called the Peak Pacer Preservation Society at https://pppsociety.wixsite.com/peakpacerps/gallery.

Perhaps the two could get together. 

 

To paraphrase Peter Sellers in Balham, Gateway to the South "Such is the enthusiasm of Balham's train lovers that they are subscribing to a fund to send a Pacer to Italy. Or Vienna. Or anywhere..."

 

(Such is the enthusiasm of Balham's music lovers that they are subscribing to a fund to send Eugene to Italy. Or Vienna. Or anywhere...)

[Owd Bob]

Already acting like one of the giant razer blades it will end up being made into, 142 061 was pruning the bushes at Hindley this afternoon. 

[eastwestdivide]

Bike accommodation, original fold-up triple seat on a Northern 142 yesterday.

It's not quite long enough for any standard sort of bike without the wheels sticking out into the gangway or obstructing the doors.

Some have been refitted with a much larger luggage area, bikes below and a luggage rack above.

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

Judging by yesterday, Darlington must be "Pacer Central" these days. On going to the Shildon exhibition, there were 142s on Saltburn-Darlington and Saltburn-Bishop Auckland trains. Just one 156 on a train to Bishop when I arrived back at Darlington. Wondering what's going to replace these.

[eastwestdivide]

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Judging by yesterday, Darlington must be "Pacer Central" these days. On going to the Shildon exhibition, there were 142s on Saltburn-Darlington and Saltburn-Bishop Auckland trains. Just one 156 on a train to Bishop when I arrived back at Darlington. Wondering what's going to replace these.

Take your pick of 150 156 158 I guess, once Northern get enough of their new (brand-new and also cascaded) DMUs into service. Not sure what the plan is for Northern's 153/155s, which might have a PRM/accessibility problem.

[Market65]

That’s what I understand is the situation for that service and many others on withdrawal of the Pacers, eastwestdivide. However the class 155’s, as far as I can see from journeys on them since the timetable change, have been PRM’d as well as refurbished, so will last for a good few years. I hope this is of help.

 

Rob.

[31A]

The 153s are planned to go off lease from Northern eventually, presumably when all the new DMUs are in service.

[31A]

144002 and replacement, this afternoon:

 

[Wheatley]

On 02/06/2019 at 16:33, eastwestdivide said:

Take your pick of 150 156 158 I guess, once Northern get enough of their new (brand-new and also cascaded) DMUs into service. Not sure what the plan is for Northern's 153/155s, which might have a PRM/accessibility problem.

155s have indeed been PRMed. 153s will stay for the moment but cannot work as singles or coupled pairs after December. Current plan appears to be tò use them to strengthen 150s or 155s.

[phil-b259]

On 28/05/2019 at 20:17, Steamport Southport said:

 

Plenty of railways could run a proper service. Just because a railway closed in 1950s doesn't mean it couldn't be profitable in the future. Traffic requirements in the 1950s and 1960s are different from now. Roads are at gridlock and there are plenty of schemes to reopen railways. They've just opened the Halton Curve by me.

 

Pacers are cheap to operate, cheap and easy to maintain and durable. If they are unfit for the national network then that also applies to all rolling stock and locomotives from Flying Scotsman to HSTs. No rolling stock on heritage railways have retention toilets. Should we scrap the lot then?

 

Beggars belief that some wouldn't want to save as much useful stock as possible just because they have a blinkered attitude.

 

 

Jason

 

You are missing the point - which is not bout the Pacers per say (noting that plenty of 1st generation DMUs have managed to find a niece on various Heritage railways as low season / first train / last train options instead of steam services) Its about the nature of Heritage railways and them being ill equipped organisationally or physically in infrastructure terms to provide a sustained commuter service that will be trusted and usefull to the comunities it passes through.

 

Firstly you need to remember heritage railways are labour intensive - all those signal boxes that need staffing for example plus the infrastructure which requires considerably more TLC to keep it in good condition. Why do you think the mainline railway has spent decade simplifying / modernising / centralising functions like signalling and getting rid of stuff like jointed track etc.

 

Secondly, it can be hard enough to round up enough volunteers to keep heritage operations going (even with their late starts, early finishes and infrequent operating days) as it is. Generally speaking those who do volunteer their time are NOT going to volunteer to come in at 05:30 on a daily basis throughout the year for free to make sure you can have a reliable 5 day a week train service that starts early enough to be attractive to commuters.

 

The brutal truth is that to get staff in to operate a 5 day a week service year round and running at times that suit commuters you are going to have to start employing them on a formal basis - and thats not going to be cheap. You should also take note that sever since the 1960s, passenger railways in the UK have lost money and require a subsidy to keep them going - just because you are using a heritage railway won't change this so any commuter operation will need to be bankrolled by others.

 

Furthermore to take advantage of the less stringent railway regulations which the ORR permit for Heritage railway operations (i.e. an exemption from AWS, TPWS, OTMDR, central door locking, etc) then said railways MUST limit their speed to 25mph or less. This is ridiculously slow for commuter type services where the train is a means to get from place to place rather than an experience in itself. Yes some heritage railways do have special dispensation for higher speed running (which of course also brings a requirement for higher P-way standards) - but this higher speed running MUST be done under 'test conditions' - e.g. no other trains operating, public foot crossings locked shut for the duration, etc because the rest of the railway environment is not set up to accommodate such speeds.

 

So while Pacer might prove useful to some lines, it will not be to enable commuter regular operations regardless of how desirable such things may appear from looking at maps.

 

 

 

[4630]

A handful of Northern Pacers at Woodlesford on the outskirts of Leeds on 5th June 2019 working Leeds-Knottingley and Leeds-Sheffield services.

 

142064 on 2L08, 09.03 Sheffield to Leeds slows for its booked stop at Woodlesford...

 

...and also at Woodlesford on the return run, 2L61 10.30 Leeds to Sheffield.

 

142078 slows for its stop with 2F11, 10.58 Leeds to Knottingley.

 

144022 calls with 2F52, 11.15 Knottingley to Leeds.

[Market65]

Good evening. This evening I have three photo’s from last Monday, the 3rd of June. They show class 144, 144007 departing Hull Paragon station on a class 2 passenger service to Doncaster and Sheffield at 12.52. In the second photo’ you can see the way the two carriages are swaying, I estimate six inches difference between them. What you can’t hear is the squealing of the wheels in that characteristic Pacer way as the unit made it’s way over the stations pointwork.

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

[60091]

• Pacers at the end of the line...
•  143624 Severn Beach. May 1996.
• 

143607 Rhymni. July 1997

 

142045 Colne. June 2002

 

142041 Kirkby. June 2002

 

142018 Bishop Auckland. February 2007

 

142090 Saltburn, March 2008

 

142042 Marple Rose Hill. May 2016