Torre Station - Western Region in the 1950's in P4

[MPR]

A short update - I have been away from the layout for a while.

The first posters have been added to the boards - I will need decals for “British Railways” at some point.

The lorry guard rail has been trial fitted in place - this was soldered up from code 70 bullhead rail. It is a little heavy in section, but doesn’t look too bad.

[Cwmtwrch]

The Bristol poster neatly dates the scene to 1958. The TBGS boy amused me; I insisted on long trousers! The shorts should be dark grey, as were the trousers, but I can't remember the colour of the socks, and as for wearing caps outside school grounds...😀

17 hours ago, MPR said:

I will need decals for “British Railways” at some point.

On poster boards these signs were normally enamelled metal plates in regional colours, as with other BR signs, but flat, and held on by eight screws, so decals would probably need to be applied to thin plastic or paper, to give some depth. Or you could print your own and varnish them; the smallest size was 4 x 27 inches, larger ones were just longer but with the same size letters and more space at the ends.

 

I look forward to seeing this develop further.

 

 

[MPR]

45 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

The Bristol poster neatly dates the scene to 1958. The TBGS boy amused me; I insisted on long trousers! The shorts should be dark grey, as were the trousers, but I can't remember the colour of the socks, and as for wearing caps outside school grounds...😀

The intended colour of the shorts was dark grey - it hasn't carried over well in the photos.  Sock colour in old group photos was light grey - by my time (1979-86) it was all long trousers, dark socks (and no cap!)

Thanks for the info on the "British Railways" sign - that will be useful in terms of preparing a suitable solution.

 

 

[MPR]

With another exhibition coming up, it’s about time that I got on and built some more stock! 
 

Firstly, a large prairie. In the 1950s, Newton Abbot had a sizeable allocation of them for banking and local services - I already have a Martin Finney kit in the pile. For now though, I am repurposing an original Airfix RTR prairie that I bought new when I was a teenager and which I resprayed and lightly detailed a couple of years later. 

This is a good candidate for a first P4 model - they can be had for very little money, have robust (if rather crude) mechanisms and take 1/8” axles.

I had bought a full set of Gibsons for it, but substituted some Ultrascale driving wheels I had in stock to make life easier.

I kept the Gibson crank pins and washers though. I have also bought a new MF smoke box door to get rid of the most offensive original detail. The chimney and other body detailing will have to wait for now. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by MPR

[MPR]

I started by dismantling the locomotive into an old ice cream tub - to make sure I didn’t lose any of the screws and fittings. The wheel set just drops out and careful levering of the crank pins with a screwdriver liberated the coupling and connecting rods, which are to be reused.

A little more violence was meted out to the driven wheel, and the main gear wheel was slid off, thankfully in one piece. 
The pony and rear radial truck wheels were also removed at this time. All the old wheels were discarded - they are very crude indeed.

Edited April 12, 2023 by MPR

[MPR]

The next step was to prepare the pony truck to take standard 2mm diameter axles. I thought that this would be relatively straightforward - I planned to (misuse) a drill bit to gently grate away the material in the moulded clips. Unfortunately, the aged plastic did not agree and promptly snapped!

I removed the remnants of the two clips, then gently opened up the semi-cylindrical slot with a round needle file. I then cut a length of 2mm ID tube to act as a full width bearing - this was glued into the slot, giving a decent join between the two pieces. Unlike a pair of standard bearings, there was no possibility of misalignment, nor did I need any packing washers to accommodate the P4 wheelsets - I simply cut the tube to the correct length.

I also took the opportunity to remove the NEM coupling box with a razor saw.

This left a rather denuded pony truck - I have gone no further for now but may either buy the Brassmasters part when it goes on sale, or more likely, modify spare parts from the Finney kit when I get round to building it. This is a "layout loco" only!

 

Gibson wheelsets tried in place before the modifications.

 

The radial truck was much easier to convert - it is much more robust. I simply drilled it 2mm and added some spacing washers to keep the wheels where they should be. 

[MPR]

Prairie patch-up part 4.

 

The pony truck with tubular bearing - this is too long and will need to be filed down a little to give some additional play for the wheelsets - I will reseat it entirely square at the same time (and probably drill an oil hole too). As mentioned in the previous post, I won't go any further in terms of detailing as I expect to replace the whole thing at a later date.

 

Next, I fitted the driving wheels. These were Ultrascales, so they didn't need any of the preparation I would normally do with Gibsons, which reward care in rounding and slightly tapering the first 0.5mm of the axles and gentle removal of a similar amount of material at the rear entry to the wheels

- this enables you to avoid gouging out the bore of the wheels, as the axle is inside and well aligned before it is an interference fit with the wheel.

I did prepare the wheels for crankpins at this point, countersinking the rear a little and ensuring that the screws fitted well.

 

Step-by-step

1) Fit both wheels to the axle

2) Check back to back and that wheels are equally pressed in.

3) Remove one wheel.

4) Clean axle and wheel bore with IPA-moistened cotton bud and allow to dry.

5) Mount and quarter-press wheel in axle.

6) Apply a drop of Loctite 222 thread-lock with a length of wire and draw around interface between wheel and axle.

7) Press wheel home, rotating as you go, whilst checking back-back.

8) Remove excess Loctite from back and front with dry cotton bud and put to one side to cure.

9) Mark axle with indelible black marker - we will not want this one to move again.

 

The rest of the assembly can now be completed. I used some Gibson 1/8" washers to eliminate side play on the front (driven) axle) and to reduce it on the other two.

The pick up block was modified a little - I removed the existing pick-ups (there is room for top acting ones to be mounted on the chassis block later) and chamfered the places where the block touches the axle washers on reassembly - the washers  will only rub on the metal chassis block after this.

 

Once I was happy with the fit, the driven (front) axle was completely assembled , first the washers, then the gear, then the second group of washers.

Lastly, the axle and wheel were cleaned and the second wheel permanently fitted with Loctite as before.

 

The quartering was done by eye - easy in this case as the design of the chassis allows the whole assembly to be dropped out.

 

Coupling rods were roughly weathered in the last century - another thing to address!

Leading axle

The whole assembly - ready to set up the quartering on the middle and rear wheelsets. Fortunately, both the motor and cylinder assemblies are easily removable. I plan to complete the basic chassis as if it was an inside cylinder locomotive first, and only then replace the middle and leading crankpin bearings to accommodate the connecting rod and clearance to the slide bars respectively.

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by MPR

[MPR]

A pleasant diversion has been had recently spending a good few hours poring over "Operation Torbay" and trying to come up with a series of moves through Torre for the operating sequence.

As ever, it is not until you really look closely that you start to get a decent understanding of what is actually going on. 

I copied  the up and down workings information and appended the carriage workings pertinent to each train, creating a spreadsheet to cover a weekday in early 1957. I reached 93 movements through the station over 24 hours.

A few things stood out to me.

1) There was an enormous quantity of formations in use on any given day. I counted 65 - ranging from a single van up to one of the (2x) 10 coach sets reserved for the Torbay Express.

 

2)  The average train was relatively short (on weekdays!) 

For the passenger/parcels movement

4 movements were with one carriage/van

2 moves with two carriages

3 moves with three carriages

27 moves with four carriages

15 moves with five carriages

10 moves with six carriages

4 with seven carriages

8 with eight carriages

7 with nine carriages

3 with ten carriages

1 with eleven carriages

 

I built the fiddle yards with limited capacity - just one express locomotive and 3 carriages. I am now thinking of extending slightly to capture 4/5 carriages, but even then, I am still facing a large carriage building programme to get even half way there!

 

3) There must be some movements that are missing - light engine moves for the Kingswear - Gasworks coal trains - possibly others?

 

4) Most photos that I have access to are on summer weekends.

 

So, my questions are:

a) What don't I know? To what extent are the loads typical, or are they minima/maxima? (short formations are useful to me!)

b) What is missing?

c) What is misleading?

 

For locos, it is clear that 14xx/pannier/large prairie/Castle/Hall are going to cover most of my needs (with small prairie/Grange/King workings too)

In terms of selection of coaches, the corridor stock can be relatively easily sort-of represented, drawing mostly from modified RTR, but the non-corridor stock is less familiar. Would any Mk1 suburbans have reached the branch at this point? Also, what about LMS stock? Seems to be a smattering of Period II/III coaches - but definitely not my area of expertise!

 

Any help suggestion or correction would be appreciated!  

Edited May 5, 2023 by MPR

[drduncan]

If you can identify any inter-regional workings that might help with the exLMS stock. In GWR days you could look up the working of through coaches (available in the National Archives now) which gives the origin of through coaches and owning company. You’d still need the divisional local coach working diagrams to get the local workings and their composition.

 

Regards,

 

Duncan 

[Siberian Snooper]

This maybe teaching granny to suck eggs, but can I suggest a light countersinking of the oil hole, this will help when oiling the axle.

 

 

[MPR]

On 18/04/2023 at 17:15, drduncan said:

If you can identify any inter-regional workings that might help with the exLMS stock. In GWR days you could look up the working of through coaches (available in the National Archives now) which gives the origin of through coaches and owning company. You’d still need the divisional local coach working diagrams to get the local workings and their composition.

 

Regards,

 

Duncan 

The photograph that I am using as reference is by Peter Gray - it was reproduced in “West Country Branch lines - A Colour Portfolio” - and shows 9487 on an up three coach local in April 1960, just north of Torre. The working doesn't quite match with the 1957 details in "Operation Torbay," which is all that I have at present by the way of data. (The caption says these were the 8.00am Kingswear-Manchester coaches).

Formation is 1) maroon ex-LMS TK?  steel sided, seven compartments 2) maroon BR Mk1 CK, 3) maroon BR Mk1 BSK.

It is the diagram of the first vehicle that I am trying to confirm. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by MPR
Added proper reference and confirmed working

[MPR]

On 19/04/2023 at 08:34, MPR said:

The photograph that I am using as reference is by Peter Gray - it was reproduced in “West Country Branch lines - A Colour Portfolio” - and shows 9487 on an up three coach local in April 1960, just north of Torre. The working doesn't quite match with the 1957 details in "Operation Torbay," which is all that I have at present by the way of data. (The caption says these were the 8.00am Kingswear-Manchester coaches).

Formation is 1) maroon ex-LMS TK?  steel sided, seven compartments 2) maroon BR Mk1 CK, 3) maroon BR Mk1 BSK.

It is the diagram of the first vehicle that I am trying to confirm. 

Ok, courtesy of a visit to the SWAG meeting in Taunton yesterday and acquisition of a number of lovely books from the collection of the late Iain Rice, I think that the carriage in question is a D1999 Third Open.

Seven compartments, 57', lavatory at one end, no ventilators over the doors. My only concern is that the lavatory compartment appears to have a solid grey blanking plate rather than obscure glass in the windows. Any thoughts?

Edited April 24, 2023 by MPR

[MPR]

A bit more work on the reduced fiddle yards - I would prefer them to be able to take 40 inch cassettes again, so I have started on a pair of lightweight extensions for the existing boards. They do not need any wiring or substantial strength, so I have made them from 5mm Palight board that I recovered from some old advertising signs that were being scrapped.

I bought some 12mm square strip wood to make corner reinforcement, cut the board to  shape with a Swann Morton scalpel and glued everything together with cyano.

End frame with 12mm square softwood glued in place.

This project required basic tools only - I also used a razor saw for the softwood.

I now have an end-stop!

Finally, I added an off-cut of plywood to match the fascia on the rest of the layout.

I’ll add a diagonal brace to stiffen the board up later.

One down, one to go - it’s now only a couple of months until Rail Wells, so I need to get a move on!

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by MPR

[Barry Ten]

It was very nice to see the layout today and have a chat!

[Siberian Snooper]

I managed to see the layout and I must say it does look impressive, I look forward to seeing it again, when it is more complete.

[NHY 581]

Lovely to meet upon the weekend. Torre is progressing and will no doubt become a truly lovely layout. 

 

Rob. 

[MPR]

Well, I’m safely home after another excellent Railwells weekend. Many thanks to Chris and the team for putting on another spectacular show, for their hospitality - and all the mugs of tea! It all makes a huge difference for a solo presenter/operator.
The layout is safely stowed away in the spare room, ready to be reassembled and the snagging list attended to.

Also, many thanks to all the visitors who had kind words and, in many cases, memories of Torre in its WR steam heyday. Similarly, it was great to meet so many RMWEB members in person and chat about our respective projects. Finally, thanks to the Bristol group for the running powers on Clinkerford - photos of some of the return workings may feature in a future post.

It is fair to say that the layout did not perform as well as I had hoped. The facing crossover had one failed point for the whole weekend - the fault was localised to the control box, which would have been too chancy to  try to repair.

Also, the running, particularly onto the cassettes, deteriorated electrically as time went on, and was not mechanically truly reliable either across the joints. This was the first real trial of the long cassettes, which were usable, but rather unwieldy. I will think more on this subject, but am considering a completely new fiddle yard solution before the layout next goes out. 

Anyway, I have returned home pleased, tired, but thinking about scenic development soon, more stock - and better fiddle yards!

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by MPR

[MrWolf]

Good to hear that you're undeterred and the real life running has helped you hunt down the snags.

You've also got me thinking about some experimentation with cassette lengths.

 

Bash on!

[MPR]

My pannier tank managed to escape from duty for a short holiday in the Forest of Dean during the Wells show.

 

I forgot to correct the head code, though - oops!

Edited August 16, 2023 by MPR

[MPR]

The morning walk to the show was as beautiful as ever, this is a lovely city.

All set up and ready to go.

The 30 inch cassettes were reasonably easy to handle, but 40 inch examples were rather unwieldy.

The return working from Clinkerford - this was a similar conversion to an Airfix auto coach using the Dart castings kit, mine is an A30 retaining the original 9’ bogies, the chocolate and cream visiting example has the flush drivers door and 7’ bogies of an A28.

Edited August 16, 2023 by MPR

[MPR]

A couple more photos from Railwells - the auto coach wasn’t the only visitor from Clinkerford, as Paul brought over this superb C77 (GWR Collett 1938 corridor third), made by Rocar. I’d heard of these before, and seen pictures, but they don’t easily convey just how exquisite both the interior and exterior detailing is.

We posed it for photography, then added a Mainline/Replica example of the same diagram for comparison.

This model has been the subject of some discussion on the forum recently - I don’t think it is that bad  - but its shortcomings are painfully obvious in this comparison photo. (Note: the only changes have been: swap out wheel sets for P4, remove tension locks and mount,  drill and slot buffer-beam for Smiths screw-link couplings and swap body for Replica railways carmine and cream spare) The compromised proportions of the ventilators can easily be seen in this image.

I am planning a couple of these in upgraded form, starting with chassis detailing, but this comparison has made me look at my stash of etched sides again.

 

More to follow…

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by MPR

[MPR]

Replica / Mainline C77 - over prominent rivet detail on roof. thick and poorly finished window openings, moulded on door handles, sketchy underframe and end detail, shallow detail on bogies.

 

Rocar C77, much, much more refined all round.

 

Similar era brake 3rd 1645 is a D127

 

1295 is a C74, but similar in construction

Edited August 21, 2023 by MPR

[vectispete]

Your Rocar C77 looks lovely. How long ago did Rodney build it for you? Torre really is looking superb now. Well done.

[MPR]

1 hour ago, vectispete said:

Your Rocar C77 looks lovely. How long ago did Rodney build it for you? Torre really is looking superb now. Well done.

Thanks! It’s not mine, though - it was a guest on the layout over the weekend. It has spurred me on to think about resurrecting a plan to upgrade a Mainline one, though. 

[MPR]

With the layout still packed away, I am taking the opportunity to complete a few half-finished projects, some of which have been hanging around for years.

Firstly, the Heljan Hymek that appeared at Wells. 
The screw link couplings were replaced by slightly longer Smiths parts to overcome the coupling issues seen over the exhibition - this locomotive would really benefit from sprung buffers.

I also took the opportunity to remove and repaint the buffer beams and cowlings, also fitting the piping at the same time. Moving on, the fuel tanks and wheels got a coat of under frame dirt - mostly black with about 10% mid grey and 10% dark brown mixed in to lift the shade and thinned down to single cream consistency.It’s not really a weathering mix as such, but intended to kill the shine of the self-coloured plastic and provide a basis for future detail painting and weathering, it also hides the shiny rims of the Ultrascale P4 wheel set. 

I then painted the bogie cosmetic mouldings with a similar mix. It will all need a second coat before reassembly.

I also took the opportunity to convert a Heljan 47 that I have had put by for a number of years. This locomotive is very much a “rule one” choice, as the Brush Type 4s were not regular visitors until long after my supposed time period - I believe the earliest visit was of D1733 with the XP64 train.

In any case, the original D1734 had a short and unhappy career, being written off after a collision at Shrewsbury in 1965. 
This model has also had an unhappy history, having being rebuilt and repaired after its original chassis succumbed to Mazak rot.

Fortunately, the corner cracking was confined to one cab and hardly showed on gluing - I haven’t repainted it yet.
This locomotive was converted with Branchlines wheels - these required a little more work than the Ultrascale set, as I had to file off the pinpoints on the axles. The gears were the originals, pressed off with a pair of pliers. They slid nicely onto the new axles, which were then checked for back to back with my P4 gauge. No adhesive was needed for any of this.

The contacts were then bent outwards to contact the new wheels and the keeper plate and cosmetic bogie sides reattached - it all went at first time of asking.

It has now been dismantled again for painting of the under-gubbins. I’m preparing a new, painted and detailed cowled buffer beam for this one too.