Lenz LZV200 System and Automation - Problems

[RFS]

Just thought I should post on here my experience with the new Lenz LZV200 system, as I encountered several problems with it, one being terminal and ended up with it being returned to the shop. I currently use the LZV100 with LH100 throttle, and liked the idea of the LH101 throttle plus the anticipated software upgrade to version 4. I therefore purchased the new SET101 containing both LZV200 and LH101 for around €300. With the LZV200 having a built-in PC interface I was intending to sell the LZV100 with the LH100 throttle, as well as the 23151 LAN/USB interface and in doing so would recoup much of the outlay.

 

But I experienced several issues. Let me say straightaway these are all to do with DCC automation using Traincontroller: anyone not using software automation is unlikely to be affected.

 

PC USB Interface. Despite Lenz saying in their documentation this is identical to the existing 23151 interface, it clearly isn’t as it doesn’t work with TC.  There’s a bit of a bunfight going on in the German TC forum between several users who’ve bought the LZV200 and Herr Freiwald. Apparently there are differences and TC will need to be changed. Freiwald has now updated the digital systems list to exclude the LZV200 interface, although the LZV200 did work for me provided I used the 23151 interface. Not a stopper for me – I could have just waited for the support to arrive. But it does mean anyone using TC and the LZV200 will need to be on the latest TC Version 9.

 

Train Tracking Issue. Long been an issue with the LZV100 and 3.6, and was expected to be fixed with the LZV200 but it isn’t. Freiwald was involved in detailed discussions with Lenz about getting this fixed, and he logged it all on his forum. I’ve read the documents and they’re dated 2010! What should happen is that if you select a train on the Lenz throttle to drive manually, changes to speed steps and direction should be broadcast on Xpressnet with these changes then being seen by software such as TC so it’s able to track the movement of the train and keep its switchboard up to date. Furthermore, if the engine you have selected is part of an internal TC consist (called a “train set” in TC terms) then TC will automatically drive the other engine(s) in the train set at matching speed.

 

The problem is that this does not happen automatically with the LZV100. To get this to work you have to go into TC and issue the command “assign control to digital system” for the engine in question, and then “assign control to computer” to hand it back to TC. If you don’t, the changes you make are not broadcast  to Xpressnet. This is a real issue because it essentially makes it cumbersome to operate your layout manually if you choose at times to do so. The LZV200 was supposed to make this takeover automatic (locking out other users such as TC and Smarthand etc) so I was very disappointed this problem is not fixed as it was one of the attractions of doing the upgrade. (Incidentally the LZV200 reports the software level as 3.8).

 

Feedback on RS Bus. This is the problem that killed it for me. I use LDT RS8 occupancy detectors (x9) but when I first plugged in the LZV200 it didn’t see them. Not realizing this I started TC and it seemed to hang the LZV200. After several minutes almost all blocks were flagged as occupied on the TC Switchboard. To cut a long story short, I found I could get some of the RS8s recognized if some were disconnected. Eg I have a U-shaped RS bus with 6 on one side, and 3 on the other. Disconnecting either half made the other half visible. Despite trying several re-wiring arrangements (eg all 9 on one leg) I was never able to get all 9 recognized - at most 5 or 6. Urgent emails to Lenz Technical Support over 2 weeks ago have all gone unanswered.

 

So regrettably I decided to return the SET101 to the shop. Their customer service was exemplary, responding to my request to return it with a pre-paid Parcelforce label.

 

To summarize my concerns:

 

. Seems Lenz have not properly tested this product despite the almost 9-year gestation period

. Their customer service is seriously lacking.

. The software update process is a special USB stick. You cannot download updates as the only update process possible is you purchasing an updated stick from Lenz. All very well for new, chargeable releases but what about patching?

 

I shall wait and see what develops. But my LZV100 runs fine and has done with the RS8s for a number of years now and will no doubt continue to do so for some time. My choice is a bit restricted because I have no wish to replace the RS8s as well as the command station.  

 

 

[BoD]

Thanks for the warning.  

I don’t use TC, Rocrail does what I need, but the RS8 issue would affect me.

[RFS]

Thought I'd give a quick update on this.

 

When I got the problem with the RS8s,I immediately sent a couple of urgent emails to Lenz. 10 days later, having had no response, I tried a different tack and sent them an email in German using my other email address in case email was a problem. It took a week,but then I got a reply to the German one, basically saying they had not heard of the problem and asking for some information. I sent them all the details of what I had tried, again in German.  A reply came back asking about how the units were powered, which I again answered. Basically all my kit is powered up by a remote power-on so all kit gets power simultaneously. Never been a problem over the years with the LZV100 so don't expect that is the issue. Last reply from Lenz was over a week ago now, so that thread seems to have petered out.

 

Having waited so long for a response I had already returned my SET101 by the time they eventually did reply. Even if I still had the kit now, I still would not have had a resolution. Now Lenz have offered an exchange deal for the LZV100, so perhaps I now just need to sit back and see if others have the problem. At least, in my case, I was able to switch back to the LZV100, which will not be possible for anyone who has exchanged it....

 

I have also sent two emails to LDT over the last 4 weeks asking if they know of any problems. No reply from them either. All in all, very poor customer service from both companies! 

[Hamburger]

Not sure if you already knew: Littfinski sold his business to Buehler Electronic in february.

New email is  littfinski@buehler-electronic.de

They are located in former East Germany so they might have problems with English language . . .

 

[RFS]

24 minutes ago, Hamburger said:

Not sure if you already knew: Littfinski sold his business to Buehler Electronic in february.

New email is  littfinski@buehler-electronic.de

They are located in former East Germany so they might have problems with English language . . .

 

 

Indeed I saw that, and that's the email address I was using. I will try another email in German and see what happens!

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, Hamburger said:

Not sure if you already knew: Littfinski sold his business to Buehler Electronic in february.

New email is  littfinski@buehler-electronic.de

They are located in former East Germany so they might have problems with English language . . .

 

 

In the early 80s I obtained a Piko loco - it needed a new motor. I was learning German at school at the time so wrote a letter in both English and (poor) German. They replied in perfect English, I then replied with the required cash (THAT was fun getting that) and a few weeks later my new motor arrived.

 

I presume I was on some kind of secret police list after that

[Guest]

I did also wrote a mail to Lenz.

In fact...Lenz knows the problem and presumably already start to fix the problem.

Lenz has still not writing back to me about the problem(s). 

Please to be sure save your system LZV100 in case if the new system does not work correct.

[RFS]

12 minutes ago, Anders63 said:

I did also wrote a mail to Lenz.

In fact...Lenz knows the problem and presumably already start to fix the problem.

Lenz has still not writing back to me about the problem(s). 

Please to be sure save your system LZV100 in case if the new system does not work correct.

 

Are you saying Lenz know about the problem with the RS8s and are fixing it?

[Guest]

They know the problems but did they start to fix it?

[RFS]

45 minutes ago, Anders63 said:

They know the problems but did they start to fix it?

 

I'm still unclear as to what you are saying. Have Lenz come back to you and said they know about the problem? If so, can you post their reply here, even if in German? I have reported the problem to Lenz but have had no reply saying that they accept there is a problem. 

[Guest]

Both you and i did reported to Lenz about trouble shooting with the new system.

Yes they know about our problem.

Yes they know the problems.

[PeterCB]

Hi,

   Im not sure if this info will be of any use to anyone, but I have been in touch with Lenz three times in the last week and have received replies back within a couple of hours, my problem with feedback using the LR101 feedback encoders has not been resolved, im not sure if it is a software or hardware problem I have.

These are the replies I have had, sorry but they are all in German.

 

Question

 

Am 20 May 2019 um 11:23 hat Peter geschrieben:
>     >     
>     >     >
>     >     > Hallo,
>     >     >                Ich habe den Lenz LZV200 und habe ihn an meinen neuen Computer
>     >     angeschlossen.
>     >     > Es scheint ein Problem mit der Rückmeldung zu geben. Zuerst dachte ich, es 
>     handele
>     >     sich um
>     >     > das iTrain-Programm, aber nachdem ich die LR101-Rückmeldedecoder mit dem 
>     LH101
>     >     überprüft
>     >     > hatte, fand ich das Problem, den LH101 Es wurden keine Feedback-Decoder 
>     angezeigt.
>     >     > Ich stelle die Decoder neu ein und gebe neue Adressen ein, die akzeptiert wurden, 
>     aber
>     >     der
>     >     > LH101 meldete immer noch keine Rückmeldung.
>     >     > Ich habe immer noch meine LZ100, also habe ich sie wieder angeschlossen und die
>     >     > Feedback-Decoder haben funktioniert.
>     >     > Gibt es ein Problem mit der LZV200-Software oder ist mein Gerät defekt?
>     >     >
>     >     > Vielen Dank und freundliche Grüße

 

Answer

 

On Mon, 20 May 2019 at 12:02, Lenz Elektronik Support <support@lenz-elektronik.de> 
>     wrote:
>     >     Sehr geehrter Herr,
>     >     vielen Dank für Ihre E-Mail.
>     >     Welche Decoder benutzen Sie für die Rückmeldung?
>     >     Haben Sie die Zentrale mal resetet?
>     >     Bitte machen Sie mal einen Reset der Zentrale.
>     >     Gehen Sie wie folgt vor:
>     >     - Nehmen Sie LZV200  in Betrieb
>     >     - Wählen Sie am Handregler die Lokadresse 0 (konventionelle Lok)
>     >     - sorgen Sie dafür, dass die Fahrstufe 0 ist.
>     >     - Drücken Sie die Taste 4 (so als wollten Sie die Funktion 4 schalten)
>     >       20x.
>     >     - Schalten Sie die LZV200 aus und wieder ein.
>     >     
>     >     Nach diesem Reset ist die Zentrale in einen definierten Ausgangszustand
>     >     versetzt.
>     >     
>     >     Mit freundlichen Grüssen

 

Question

 

Am 20 May 2019 um 16:38 hat Peter geschrieben:
>     
>     >
>     > Vielen Dank für Ihre schnelle Antwort. Muss ich das System anschließend mit dem 
>     USB-Stick
>     > aktualisieren und muss der LH101 neu zerucksetzen werden?
>     >
>     > Mit freundlichen Grüßen

 

There Answer

 

On Tue, 21 May 2019 at 10:30, Lenz Elektronik Support <support@lenz-elektronik.de > wrote:
>     Sehr geehrter Herr,
>     vielen Dank für Ihre E-Mail.
>     Den handregler können Sie zur Sicherheit auch noch zurücksetzen. Dies können Sie im 
>     Setup LH101 Menü
>     machen. Dann sollte es aber schon funktionieren.
>     
>     Mit freundlichen Grüssen

 

My Question

 

Am 24 May 2019 um 11:13 hat Peter geschrieben:

> 
> Hallo,
>       Ich habe den LZV200 und den LH101 zurückgesetzt, aber ich habe immer noch keine 
> Rückmeldung von den LR101-Einheiten. Ich habe die gesamte Verkabelung überprüft und die 
> Adressen der LR101-Einheiten geändert, nachdem ich alle auf die Standardeinstellungen 
> zurückgesetzt habe. Ich habe den LH101 und den LZV200 zum Ändern verwendet Die Adressen, 
> die die Geräte akzeptierten, aber als ich versuchte, die Adressen zurückzulesen, zeigte der 
> LH101 No Encoder an.
> Ich habe das System durch mein altes LZV100 und LH100 ersetzt und die Adressen überprüft. 
> Alle Adressen waren korrekt. Dann habe ich jedes Gerät und alle Ausgänge überprüft. Alle 
> funktionierten einwandfrei.
> Ich habe den neuen LZV200 und den neuen LH101 wieder angeschlossen und es erneut 
> versucht. Es gibt immer noch keine Rückmeldung. Ist dies ein Softwareproblem oder ein defektes 
> Gerät?
> 
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen

 

Answer

 

Sehr geehrter Herr,
vielen Dank für Ihre E-Mail.
Kontrollieren Sie bitte noch mal, ob Sie eventuell R und S vertauscht haben, dies ist einigen Kunden passiert.
Wenn dies nicht der Fall ist, wird es sich leider um ein defektes Gerät handeln.
In diesem Fall senden Sie es uns bitte mal ein.

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

[WIMorrison]

and in English

 

On 20 May 2019 at 11:23 Peter wrote: 
>>      
>>> 
>>> Hi, 
>>> I have the Lenz LZV200 and have it on my new computer 
connected>>. 
>>> There seems to be a problem with the feedback. At first I thought it  
> IN QUESTION 
>> is 
>>> the iTrain program, but after seeing the LR101-feedback decoder with the  
> LH101 
checked>> 
had>>> I found the problem, the LH101 There were no feedback Decoder  
> is displayed. 
>>> 
But> 
>> of 
>>> LH101 still reported no feedback. 
>>> I still have my LZ100, so I reconnected it and the>>> 
feedback decoders worked. 
>>> Is there a problem with the LZV200 software or is my device defective? 
>>>>>> 
Thank you and best regards

 

Answer

 

On Mon, 20 May 2019 at 12:02, Lenz Electronics Support < support@lenz-elektronik.de >  
> wrote: 
>> Dear Sir, 
>> Thank you for your email. 
>> Which decoder do you use for the feedback? 
>> Did you reset the control panel? 
>> Please do a reset of the control panel. >> Proceed 
as follows: 
>> - Activate LZV200>> 
- Select the locomotive address 0 (conventional loco)>> on the manual controller 
- ensure that the speed level is 0. 
>>

>> - Switch the LZV200 off and on again. 
>>>>      
After this reset, the control panel is set to a defined initial 
state>>. 
>>      
>> Sincerely,

 

Question

 

On 20 May 2019 at 16:38 Peter wrote: 
>      
>> 
>> Thanks for your quick reply. Do I have to update the system afterwards with the  
> USB-Stick 
>> and must the LH101 be reset? 
>> 
>> Sincerely

 

There Answer

 

On Tue, 21 May 2019 at 10:30, Lenz Electronics Support < support@lenz-elektronik.de  > wrote: 
> Dear Sir, 
> Many thanks for your e-mail. 
> The hand controller can also be reset for safety. You can do this in the  
> Setup LH101 menu 
>. But then it should work. 
>      
> Sincerely,

 

My Question

 

On 24 May 2019 at 11:13 Peter wrote: 

>  
> Hi, 
> I have the LZV200 and LH101 reset, but I still have no  
> feedback from the LR101 units. I checked all the wiring and changed the  
> addresses of the LR101 units after I 
reset them all to the defaults  >. I used the LH101 and the LZV200 for modifying the addresses  
> that the devices accepted, but when I tried to read back the addresses, the  
> LH101 displayed No Encoder. 
> I replaced the system with my old LZV100 and LH100 and checked the addresses. 
> All addresses were correct. Then I checked every device and all outputs. All  
> worked flawlessly. 
> I reconnected the new LZV200 and the new LH101 and 
tried again  . There is still no feedback. Is this a software problem or a faulty  
device? 
>  
> Sincerely

 

Answer

 

Dear sir, 
thank you for your e-mail. 
Please check again if you have possibly exchanged R and S, this has happened to some customers. 
If this is not the case, it will unfortunately be a defective device. 
In that case, please send it to us. 

Yours sincerely

[RFS]

Very interesting as that looks like the same problem I had except with LDT RS8s rather than Lenz LR01s. 

 

Eventually Lenz replied to my Germain emails and a dialog has taken place between us. By the time they first got back to me (3 weeks after my first email to them), I had already decided to return the SET101 for a refund as I was entitled do, and the retailer could not have been more helpful. Current position is that Lenz are now in the process of sending me an updated LZV200 to test and I will report back here when it arrives and I have done some testing. 

Edited May 24, 2019 by RFS

[RFS]

So things have moved forward. Lenz did indeed send me an LZV200 but DPD kindly left it tucked away in the front porch and I only discovered it earlier this evening when I was sent out to water some of the wife's new plants! What came was just a bare LZV200 but with no plugs: the LZV100 has a 5-pole UVJK plug whereas the LZV200 is only 4-pole as the ground connection has been removed. So a bit of faffing to sort that out - had take out the LV102 and pinch one its connectors to do a basic test. 

 

But the good news is that all 9 LDT-RS8s were immediately recognized at start-up, so it functions like the LZV100 and as I'd expected it to. I've successfully run a few schedules with Traincontroller using the LAN/USB interface as the integral USB interface is not yet supported. More full-scale testing tomorrow.

 

I don't know whether the fix is hardware or software - the software still shows 3.8, but I'll try and get an answer to that. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by RFS

[RvSwol]

Hello,
I have the same problems with the new Lenz LZV200,
No connection possible via the USB port, but it was possible via the LAN / USB 2351.

However, Traincontroller 9 verse A5 gave a strange behavior with the peco switch engines.

At the start-up, all turnouts are first placed in the basic position.
However, the peco switch engines started vibrating in a certain high  frequency, and  got hot.

Only interrupting the power sources helped stop the process.

Mr. Freiwald from Train Controller ,  gives no support on the LZV200 which also connected to the LAN / USB interface 2351.

This gives me the suspicion that the Expressnet which has also undergone a change due to future Railcom options  giving problem.

However, it is still guessing when Mr. Freiwald will come up with an update.

With Windigipet 2018, the LHV 200 worked verry well with  the LAN / USB interface, without the use of the USB.

best regards,
Rupert van Swol
Enkhuizen, Holland

[RFS]

I have now run the LZV200 for 2-3 hours on my layout using the 23151 LAN interface to connect to Traincontroller. I have seen no problems at all in operation. I use Tortoise motors for my turnouts using the NCE Switch-8 accessory decoders. However these are on a separate LV102 in order to ensure the full 5A power is available for running trains. I do have a pair of Peco PL-10WE (low power) motors connected to an LS150 at a place where Tortoises would not fit, and I've not noticed any problems with them. 

 

The Switch-8s do not support Railcom, and if I enable it then only 1 of the 7 Switch-8s works. That is one of the reasons why I have them on a separate LV102 as I can have Railcom enabled on the LZV100/LZV200 but disabled on the LV102. 

 

How do the Peco motors behave before you start Traincontroller? Do they behave normally, and then start vibrating when you start Traincontroller? Which accessory decoder are you using?

[Ticket man]

Good afternoon,

I too have a Lenz LZV 200 v3.8 connected to TC via the original LiUSB (23150) connected to the Expressnet Face plate (LA152). My original attempt was rushed and did not connect, but with a measured approach everything worked as it all did with the LZV 100. There is one minor issue in that the middle LED in the 23150 (Data) now flashes at a seriously fast rate . However this does not seem to cause any problems.

Of course the new internal USB link was not used which seems to be source of many problems at the moment, which we hope will be rectified soon.

The main train detection is by using two DCC4PC Railcom Readers. There are a few track sections which are detected by Lenz occupancy detectors LR101, and also a few Turnout position detectors LS150 which feed back via a RS bus (LR101s). Turnout control is by Tortoise on the main lines and a mixture of Seep and Peco motors in the fiddleyard. When TC is turned on all turnouts are in exactly the same state as when previously turned off, without any issues. There are settings in TC to control this.

Peter.

[RvSwol]

 

Hello Peter,
I have a railroad track where everything is 100% owned by the firm lenz, including the rolling stock.
I do not know what is really happening, but when the dcc signal is added or stopped, a signal comes on the rails that interferes with switch motors, and signals
The strange thing is, with windigipet 2018 or Itrain I see this phenomenon not occur.

It is a pity that Mr Freiwald simply does not have his affairs in order. He claims that the last update A5 before the LHV 200 appeared on the market.
The latest update from Windigipet was also before the Lenz put the LHV 200 on the market. However, the new power station had already been fitted there.

 

It is apparently not allowed to mention a link.
I deleted the e behind the b from xxxtube.be
then it will work, especially turn on the sound because it is quite soft

 

Kind regards

 

Rupert

 

[RvSwol]

sorry this is the link    https://youtu.b/t8ZVC4Igznc

[PeterCB]

I have tried everything possible including testing each Feedback Encoder individually, I swapped the R & S wires just in case it was marked the wrong way round on the unit but still no feedback so I contacted Lenz again and got a quick reply within a couple of hours telling me to send it back to them (not the UK distributor).

I contacted them on Tuesday 28 May, I asked if it was just the LZV200 or the entire set they wanted but all I got was the address, so I packed the entire set and sent it back on Wednesday 29 May (It cost £10.30)

Lets see how long it takes to get it back, fortunately I still have my LV100 which does have feedback but unfortunately the LI101F doesn't work with iTrain.

Here is my question & the answer, sorry its in German (Thanks for the previous translation)

 

Question

 

Am 28 May 2019 um 9:22 hat Peter geschrieben:

> 
> Hallo,
>        Vielen Dank für deine Hilfe. Es wird sehr geschätzt, dass die LR101-Feedback-Decoder 
> leider immer noch nicht mit Set 101 funktionieren, aber perfekt mit LZV100 und LH100.
> Wohin schicke ich das defekte Set zur Reparatur oder zum Austausch? Ich bin in Großbritannien, 
> sende ich es direkt an Lenz oder den britischen Distributor?
> Benötigen Sie das gesamte Set LZV 200, LH101 und den USB-Stick oder nur den LZV200?
> Nochmals vielen Dank und herzliche Grüße, Ihr Kundenservice war ausgezeichnet.
> 
> Peter

 

Reply

 

Sehr geehrter Herr,
vielen Dank für Ihre E-Mail.
Senden Sie es bitte direkt zu uns ein.

Lenz Elektronik
Vogelsang 14
35398 Giessen
Germany


Mit freundlichen Grüssen

[RFS]

The problem is purely to do with the LZV200. When I first tried it I was still using the LH100 throttle and was planning to pick up on the LH101 later. 

 

Can you not use a Serial to USB converter for the LI101F? 

[Guest]

When you get a new system you may accept there is always some defaults.

Typical in the digital market! 

[PeterCB]

Yes I am using a serial to USB converter, I have windows 10 so thought it might have been the drivers, I downloaded a new set but as soon as I start iTrain the programme doesn't respond, I still have a Windows XP laptop with Train Controller (Demo) installed  unfortunately that works OK with Windows XP & Windows 10, so i'm assuming iTrain doesn't like the serial port, hopefully Ill get my LZV200 back soon and working.

It is frustrating, one system works with the PC but wont read feedback, the other will read feedback but wont work with the PC.

[melmerby]

Has anybody tried the new TC Gold Ver 9.0 B1 update to see whether TrainController works properly with the LVZ200?

Previously Herr Freiwald said the LVZ200 was not supported.