Flying Scotsman aaround Burton earlier today

[locoholic]

27 minutes ago, Andrew Young said:

 

Jim,

 

What do you count this as?

 

 

That’s my train in the background, 1S47 and this was two I found. I should’ve been doing 125mph at this point until the Signalman put the signal back to red.

 

At the next bridge I found two more on this side of the railway in a similar position. And four adults with four boys in a similar position on the down side.

 

After finding three lots, I stopped where I was until Scotsman went past. The driver on 1V06 found people in similar positions at every bridge and access point from Willington to Tamworth. 

 

I do wish the general public woukd grasp that a fence is there for a reason and to stay off the railway.

 

Andrew

I think that photo is proof that the Tamworth area has more than its fair share of stupid people.

 

Who took the photo?

[298]

If that's what the British public are capable of, I doubt they could differentiate between "Lineside" in a position of safety and the four foot. The situation hasn't been helped by the lack of a media embargo and a fairly standard news story with different cut&paste locations being published by Reach media in their local rags and social content.

 

Meanwhile in Wyoming, there is evidence of huge crowds but nothing to suggest an out of control trespass problem, so the message from the naturally cautious UP Railroad has obviously got through. And their locos have proper whistles, instead of that pathetic "peep"....

Edited May 6, 2019 by 298

[Andrew Young]

8 hours ago, locoholic said:

I think that photo is proof that the Tamworth area has more than its fair share of stupid people.

 

Who took the photo?

 

I took the photo having stopped the Voyager in the background, got out, walked over to this lot via a third trespasser in a similar position on the other side of the line, took the photo and then had an argument with them because they thought they were fully entitled to stand where they were and didn’t see a problem with it! Notice the camera bags on the parapet, only able to be reached by standing foul of the line. They seemed completely oblivious to anything moving on the up line, focussing as they were on framing the shot on the down

 

These people and dozens more were in a position endangering themselves. That’s why the driver of 1V06 and I had to keep stopping to report them. As another video shows, even Scotsman’s crew had to stop and remonstrate with some!

 

975 minutes delay affecting 58 trains with some part cancellations. Thousands of people had their travel plans ruined and thousands more got a crap photo of Scotsman dawdling along rather than in full flight due to a few hundred morons.

 

Was a shame, because heading from Sheffield to Birmingham earlier, about half an hour ahead of Scotsman’s scheduled time, there were hundreds of thousands at every safe vantage point, all behaving themselves. Apart from s couple of stations where we had to lean on the horn due to people not standing back from the edge as trains approached.

 

It didn’t help that the local papers published the times and where to see Scotsman type articles which brought the crowds out who wouldn’t come out for other steam workings.

 

Andrew

[Bucoops]

Disgusting behaviour

[adb968008]

The UK does have a unique hysteria about people on the lineside.

 

I suspect this is down to a senior MP rather than an oik being killed by Rocket in 1829, and a desire to protect a developing industry that just saw a high profile minister killed. It wasn’t about safety, but self preservation.

 

As such it’s been forefront of UK railways ever since, but not that of the rest of the world, who see railways as an Iron Road, rather than a tarmac one.

 

Its worth considering Air Shows have suffered many more public fatalities than Mainline steam ever has, and all those fatalities have been in “safe” zones. 

 

Even the word Trespass indicates this is more about ownership than safety... A campaign worded About being behind the yellow line or behind the safety fence would be better than a message about land ownership which people tend to ignore for some off event that doesn’t have danger associated to the wording.

 

I have seen far more people in danger on a railway station platform by heaving their body out full frontal over hanging of the track as a steam train approaches at high speed.. sometimes on the opposite platforms with their backs to oncoming trains.

 

It is dangerous, but the danger isn’t just being on the track.  It is down to popularity of steam trains in the UK compared to other countries, a cheap day out on a bank holiday, but almost certainly mentality... This weekend is Wolsztyns annual parade and 10k plus people will be all over the trackside and embankments, in the presence of large amounts of beer, and dozens of unpredictable and conflicting movements,but somehow people don’t need to throw themselves in front of a train for a selfie or a  picture for a Facebook page.

 

Unfortunately there is only one solution that is restricting Mainline steam as British people uniquely seem unable to behave around a railway. There’s no way it will be possible to police every mile of track a steam train runs on. And Brits will be Brits, they will oaf themselves in front of celebrity. Imagine if yesterday’s run was on the Southern 3rd rail ?

 

Indeed capitalising on this is easy.. Running more “Rainhill” style events or the return of an open day would engage the public in a much more controlled manner and produce a revenue stream too. Patrolling a measured course is much easier than open access nationwide at a whim. Comments blaming the media and lack of policing are off base, it’s upto those running the event to ensure its safe to do so, if there’s a risk of course encroachment they need to account for it... that’s why many events will erect fences or hire security.

 

I don’t see this as Network Rails responsibility, they own the venue and secure their land for its daily use, but they should mandate that measures have been taken by the responsible party to manage crowd control by the ones seeking to hire Network Rails land run a railtour event on before agreeing its use.

Edited May 7, 2019 by adb968008

[petethemole]

22 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 Imagine if yesterday’s run was on the Southern 3rd rail ?

 

 

Three or four years ago Scotsman ran up through Southampton. I was at Swaythling Station where there was a BTP officer amiably managing the onlookers, but instead of running through the train was held there for ten minutes or more due to trespassers further up the line, not sure where though.

[woodenhead]

12 hours ago, Andrew Young said:

 

Jim,

 

What do you count this as?

 

 

That’s my train in the background, 1S47 and this was two I found. I should’ve been doing 125mph at this point until the Signalman put the signal back to red.

 

At the next bridge I found two more on this side of the railway in a similar position. And four adults with four boys in a similar position on the down side.

 

After finding three lots, I stopped where I was until Scotsman went past. The driver on 1V06 found people in similar positions at every bridge and access point from Willington to Tamworth. 

 

I do wish the general public woukd grasp that a fence is there for a reason and to stay off the railway.

 

Andrew

The look on the old chap's face says it all about his arrogance and people think it is just 'youfs' who have no respect for laws and authority.

[adb968008]

There is another way of course

10 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

The look on the old chap's face says it all about his arrogance and people think it is just 'youfs' who have no respect for laws and authority.

I agree, it’s not the train drivers responsibility to have to confront people like this either. At some point RMT will have something to say... Whilst not generally condoning a strike I think it’s wholly proportionate for them to advise drivers to refuse to drive.. After all if one ends up under, it will be the driver who’s dragged through the courts.

 

Many years ago, in Germany, I saw a rail enthusiast pull out a shot gun and threaten some other photographers who were in his way. When your out there in open country, the drivers on his own confronting these guys. Needless to say everyone, in, out, or in proximity of this guy decided to find a new spot.

 

There are ways besides banning it, people riding steam are only doing so for the experience of a steam loco on front of the train, so just make every trip a mystery tour. Don’t advertise where it’s going, dont publish the times, and just before departure stick a huge pink chicken headboard covering the full smokebox. Then before unlocking the doors on arrival, remove it. Interest will wane quickly at the trackside.

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by adb968008

[woodenhead]

I can't help but feel this circus around Flying Scotsman is NRM led - they have to justify the millions spent on it and all this media attention of crowds turning out for it helps make it's case.

 

Who tells the local rags about it's whereabouts?  Or is there a general steam press release each week but somehow only Flying Scotsman gets into the actual papers.

 

Sad thing is, the idiot in the photo might actually be an enthusiast not just a general member of the public drawn in by the publicity who didn't realise the danger of being so close to the line.

[Reorte]

16 hours ago, locoholic said:

A significant amount of the railway network is now hidden behind six-foot high security fencing, installed at a cost of many millions of pounds, the cost of which is ultimately borne by passengers, freight users and the taxpayers. Anyone who manages to get past that deserves to be prosecuted, as there is no ambiguity as to its function.

 

And a damned unpleasant thing all that fencing is, just one aspect of modern Britain becoming less a place I like being in. It also helps reinforce the black and white nature which is part of the problem, the prohibitions and barriers start becoming more and more arbitrary in peoples' minds. Rigid, arbitrary enforcement does little to improve attitudes I think, more might be gained by not bothering too much about those technically trespassing but nowhere near anything dangerous and those relying on ducking away at the last second, who need the book thrown at them.

 

Treating everyone the same I think reinforces the view that it's all pretty arbitrary and reduces respect for the railway, and it's that respect that's really needed. There's a feedback loop going on with respect of rules and enforcement, a delicate balance that breaks down rather easily, and that seems to have happened in this country. You need to get people to believe the rules are important for them to be respected; blind, rigid enforcement does not do that.

 

To sum up I think we've got ourselves into a bit of a vicious circle, resulting in (some) people being ever more lacking in judgment, resulting in more tightening of everything, resulting in even more reduced judgment, resulting in... etc.

 

And before anyone asks I've never gone the wrong side of the boundary fence and have no intention of ever doing so.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Reorte

[Phil Parker]

2 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I think, more might be gained by not bothering too much about those technically trespassing but nowhere near anything dangerous and those relying on ducking away at the last second, who need the book thrown at them.

 

And how do you catch those needing the book thrown at them? Massive surveillance and BTP officers every 50 feet or so? Welcome to the Police state you claim to dislike.

 

Even if you do catch someone, there is the "joy" of arguing if they were or were not in a dangerous place.  For example, the old bloke in the photo probably couldn't move out of the way of a train as fast as a teenager, so can the more agile person with better reflexes go closer to the train? How close is too close? Who's going to pay for all the testing on location to determine just how much suction a passing train generates bearing in mind the shelter from bushes/trees/buildings affecting the movement of air?  A clever lawyer will say those standard tests don't count as the location his client was different.

 

Fences are also to protect the railway from the public, hence tall ones on bridges. They might offend your aesthetic sensibilities but are those more important than drivers getting a brick through the windscreen (throwing the book at the perpetrators won't help him or her much either)?

 

Returning to the main point, we ARE talking about people near dangerous things. I'm sure there are people reading this who say "it doesn't matter, they will find out the hard way", maybe I'm soft, but I wouldn't get any pleasure (schadenfreude) watching someone get killed even if it is through their own stupidity. And I do care about the train crew who have to clean up the mess and the effect it has on them. 

 

 

[Reorte]

19 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

And how do you catch those needing the book thrown at them? Massive surveillance and BTP officers every 50 feet or so? Welcome to the Police state you claim to dislike.

 

We've seen plenty of pictures of them in threads like this one. There's somewhere to start. You don't have to get all of them. There's no need to make one extreme or the other claims like implying it needs a police state; that's part of the black and white view that seems to be part of the problem.

 

Quote

Even if you do catch someone, there is the "joy" of arguing if they were or were not in a dangerous place.  For example, the old bloke in the photo probably couldn't move out of the way of a train as fast as a teenager, so can the more agile person with better reflexes go closer to the train? How close is too close? Who's going to pay for all the testing on location to determine just how much suction a passing train generates bearing in mind the shelter from bushes/trees/buildings affecting the movement of air?  A clever lawyer will say those standard tests don't count as the location his client was different.

 

Which directly contributes towards the perception that the rules are very arbitrary and reduces the amount of respect the very people who need to pay the most heed to them have for them. There's the real problem, the lack of respect, and simply telling people "thou must obey" won't do anything to increase it. Concentrate on the most unambiguously dangerous ones that have been seen, penalise them severely and the rest will follow. But create the impression that you're just attacking people on technicalities (sometimes even where that's not the case) and you produce more contempt for the system and have to work even harder just to stop things getting worse.

 

Quote

 

Fences are also to protect the railway from the public, hence tall ones on bridges. They might offend your aesthetic sensibilities but are those more important than drivers getting a brick through the windscreen (throwing the book at the perpetrators won't help him or her much either)?

 

I'd rather we didn't end up in the situation where that was deemed necessary in the first place. In some places sadly it always will need to be but I'd look at a reduction in the feeling that it's necessary as real progress, not more and more (in any case other than in some particularly bad areas I've not seen even new bridges you couldn't chuck a brick over).

 

Quote

Returning to the main point, we ARE talking about people near dangerous things. I'm sure there are people reading this who say "it doesn't matter, they will find out the hard way", maybe I'm soft, but I wouldn't get any pleasure (schadenfreude) watching someone get killed even if it is through their own stupidity. And I do care about the train crew who have to clean up the mess and the effect it has on them. 

Some certainly are near dangerous things, but it's not perfectly safe one side of the fence, lethal the other. I don't want to see people get killed, neither do I want to see the ever-increasing spread of Fortress Britain.

 

Do you think the current approach is actually working? Are people treating the railways, the rules, with more or less respect? Not compared with 150 years ago where people getting hit by trains was a lot more common and thankfully has reduced a great deal, but, say, even 20 years ago? If the railway and the public appear to be generating ever more contempt for each other something's badly wrong, attitudes becoming more and more entrenched.

 

I can see the temptation for heavy duty fences everywhere, for simplifying everything on the wrong side to being treated the same, but is it really working or is it helping create a situation where calls for even more are ever heard?

Edited May 7, 2019 by Reorte

[Phil Parker]

3 minutes ago, Reorte said:

We've seen plenty of pictures of them in threads like this one. There's somewhere to start. You don't have to get all of them. There's no need to make one extreme or the other claims like implying it needs a police state; that's part of the black and white view that seems to be part of the problem.

 

That's a lot of photos for the Police to trawl through, something they don't have the resources for. Once the chance of them prosecuting people from pictures sent in is there, they will be flooded with photos. Everyone will be informed on everyone else - just like East Germany years ago. Welcome to the Police state. 

 

5 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I'd rather we didn't end up in the situation where that was deemed necessary in the first place. In some places sadly it always will need to be but I'd look at a reduction in the feeling that it's necessary as real progress, not more and more (in any case other than in some particularly bad areas I've not seen even new bridges you couldn't chuck a brick over). 

 

 

You might not like it, but it's where we are. Of course, we could take down all those fences and hope that people start to behave - but then it's not you looking at getting hit is it?

 

7 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Some certainly are near dangerous things, but it's not perfectly safe one side of the fence, lethal the other.

 

It is safe outside the fence. Railtrack don't just plonk them down randomly. Inside the fence, things are different, which is why people who are allowed in there get extensive training to assess the dangers and minimise them.

 

9 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Do you think the current approach is actually working? Are people treating the railways, the rules, with more or less respect? Not compared with 150 years ago where people getting hit by trains was a lot more common and thankfully has reduced a great deal, but, say, even 20 years ago? If the railway and the public appear to be generating ever more contempt for each other something's badly wrong, attitudes becoming more and more entrenched.

 

And your solution? Your actual practical solution that would work in the real world? I'm happy that fences are a boundary marker people should respect, as I said earlier, no-one needs to be inside the fence to get their photos. It's not like Scotsman pictures haven't been seen before.

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

That's a lot of photos for the Police to trawl through, something they don't have the resources for. Once the chance of them prosecuting people from pictures sent in is there, they will be flooded with photos. Everyone will be informed on everyone else - just like East Germany years ago. Welcome to the Police state. 

 

 

You're saying that the police shouldn't be prosecuting people when there's evidence available? Using evidence that's out there and that people come to them with isn't the police state, it's what the police have always done and witnesses doing what they've always done.

 

Quote

It is safe outside the fence. Railtrack don't just plonk them down randomly. Inside the fence, things are different, which is why people who are allowed in there get extensive training to assess the dangers and minimise them.

AIUI the fences are at the property boundaries, not the location where the risk has been assessed as being too great. And Railtrack's long gone.

 

Do you understand how being so black and white about either side of the fence is counterproductive when it comes to instilling respect - that if something's perceived as being arbitrary, and the treatment is, that respect is lost? And that acknowledging that does not in any way condone people who are the wrong side of it? If you want to change how people behave - and I believe we both do - you need to understand how people think and react, and why just sticking with the point that "these are the rules, these are the barriers" is not in itself sufficient. Any safety measure that's perceived as arbitrary (whether it is or not) will be ineffective.

 

Quote

And your solution? Your actual practical solution that would work in the real world? I'm happy that fences are a boundary marker people should respect, as I said earlier, no-one needs to be inside the fence to get their photos. It's not like Scotsman pictures haven't been seen before.

 

I've said what my solution is, it's to prosecute people who most need prosecuting. If that doesn't happen then you can have all the fences you like, people will still get over them. I find it pretty astonishing that you seem to be suggesting prosecuting blatant offenders where there's clear, good quality evidence is not an actual practical solution that would work in the real world. I don't believe that people are fundamentally impossible to change so all you can do is physically prevent them from being where you don't want them to.

 

I'm happy that fences are a boundary marker people should respect, the problem is that they're not respecting them. Just being hard to cross isn't respecting them, and I'd argue that people willing to stick their head in front of a train will bring a ladder along to get over a bigger fence if they can't get that close anywhere else. I'm certainly not advocating that people cross them and I don't want people getting hit by trains any more than you do.

 

I'm afraid a lot of what you're saying comes across as "don't bother trying to figure out why people aren't respecting the railway, and don't bother trying to do anything to make them do so."

Edited May 7, 2019 by Reorte

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

I can't help but feel this circus around Flying Scotsman is NRM led - they have to justify the millions spent on it and all this media attention of crowds turning out for it helps make it's case.

 

Who tells the local rags about it's whereabouts?  Or is there a general steam press release each week but somehow only Flying Scotsman gets into the actual papers.

 

Sad thing is, the idiot in the photo might actually be an enthusiast not just a general member of the public drawn in by the publicity who didn't realise the danger of being so close to the line.

Back in the 1980’s Mainline steam was hard fought information if you weren’t a passenger..

 

you relied on inside gen from someone in the loco group or someone sharing the Special Traffic Notice. Even then, without internet or mobile phone, you were at mercy of delays, failures and re-routing to see if it actually came.

 

Ive spent countless hours waiting for a “ghost” to appear.

 

Today its online in advance, real-time, even with live signal box diagrams.

 

However the customer has also changed, back then, no mere normal would be seen dead near a steam train.. it was geeky and uncool. So it didn’t matter that it wasn’t in the media. Today those customers are the very people targeted by those operating the train and so the media and internet is necessary... if only 1% of those out on Sunday buy a ticket.. it’s a full train.

Edited May 7, 2019 by adb968008

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Back in the 1980’s Mainline steam was hard fought information if you weren’t a passenger..

 

you relied on inside gen from someone in the loco group or someone sharing the Special Traffic Notice. Even then, without internet or mobile phone, you were at mercy of delays, failures and re-routing to see if it actually came.

 

Ive spent countless hours waiting for a “ghost” to appear.

 

Today its online in advance, real-time, even with live signal box diagrams.

 

However the customer has also changed, back then, no mere normal would be seen dead near a steam train.. it was geeky and uncool. So it didn’t matter that it wasn’t in the media. Today those customers are the very people targeted by those operating the train and so the media and internet is necessary.

But there are plenty of steam excursions that don't attract this sort of reaction, it only seems to happen with the Scotsman - Tornado has spent a month at Crewe Heritage Centre, it doesn't appear to have drawn in crowds to come gawp at it close to.

[Steamport Southport]

Those two in the photo aren't random general public turning up. They are trainspotters/gricers/whatever you call them nowadays.

 

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

49 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

But there are plenty of steam excursions that don't attract this sort of reaction, it only seems to happen with the Scotsman - Tornado has spent a month at Crewe Heritage Centre, it doesn't appear to have drawn in crowds to come gawp at it close to.

I disagree.

ive seen plenty of times a steam loco is coming that crowds draw out.

Around a year back 45212 passed through Tooting, which saw more spectators than the station sees in rush hour.

 

similarly when 34052 climbed the bank from West Croydon to Sutton on the Footex, There were hundreds along this section, many of them Palace Supporters.

 

i also remember the circus that followed 60163’s first run to a Kings Cross, and 4464’s 90mph runs.

 

It’s the information supply that drives the crowds, as it is unusual to see a steam train and to a “normal” they are fascinated by it... report it and they will come. Everytime one is in the platform at Victoria IPhones are snapping.

 

Theres only 1 steam run I know that doesn’t draw a huge following, that’s 35028 on Belmont round Surrey.. it goes during daytimes bypassing the rush hour crowds and mundane that most railway photographers give it a miss, it doesn’t even make noise on railway forums anymore despite the VSOE being as high profile as Scotsman, if not more so.

 

The public do find it intriguing, but they are not osavvy on railway safety... The older generation knew standing back from the edging stone was a necessary safety as the incoming train often had passengers with doors open before it stopped... that knowledge has gone...

 

knowledge is the key, the reason it’s not an issue in the rest of the world is culturally they have grown up learning to cross a train track like crossing a road. The best examples of this is surely India.. passengers on the loco, the roof, market stalls in between the rails, people running taxi-trolleys along the track... it’s all there.

 

As I said blame Huskisson for the differing events in the UK, but ultimately more people are alive because of it. Roads are much more dangerous. Remember even seasoned railwaymen have met their end disrespecting the track... George Jackson Churchward of note.

 

Palisade fencing isn’t the solution, it’s a defence against legal ramifications of not doing a defence against trespass. What’s better is hard hitting education..

 

An ad for the enthusiast could be along the lines of a family man grabbing his camera, leaving the home, wife and kids and setting up tripod on the track routinely week in week out, with an ending of “ it only has to happen once” with a loco bearing down on him.

 

others..

 

“Dying to See Flying Scotsman ?”

”short cut or short circuit?”

“TRAINS don’t die of ignorance”... now who would forget a Tombstone ad like that next to Scotsman’s timings ?

Edited May 7, 2019 by adb968008

[brian daniels]

On 06/05/2019 at 12:34, jim.snowdon said:

It's strange how the Germans, for example, manage to run steam services every year on unfenced railways without this sort of thing being a problem. Perhaps they have a better understanding of the difference between "lineside" and "on the track". One is significantly more dangerous than the other, which is arguably safer than walking along the pavement on a busy main road. By lumping everyone who is the wrong side of the railway fence as being in danger simply dilutes the message as to what is and is not dangerous, to the point where people will ignore "advice".

 

Jim

 

At the Trier Dampfest last year someone did get killed in Trier Stn, had to split the tender from loco to shovel him up.

[jim.snowdon]

Not actually in a place of danger, any more than I would have been had I been trackside (legitimately) and wearing full orange.

Do they actually pose a danger to you, any more than had they been standing at a public foot crossing or user-worked crossing?

It is also worth understanding why Britain's railways (and not tramways) were originally required to be fenced, and how that was subsequently changed by interpretation of the Health & Safety at Work Act.

 

Jim 

[jim.snowdon]

9 minutes ago, brian daniels said:

 

At the Trier Dampfest last year someone did get killed in Trier Stn, had to split the tender from loco to shovel him up.

And have the European railways rushed to ban steam and erect fences along all of their non-high speed lines?

 

Jim 

[Steamport Southport]

7 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

Not actually in a place of danger, any more than I would have been had I been trackside (legitimately) and wearing full orange.

Do they actually pose a danger to you, any more than had they been standing at a public foot crossing or user-worked crossing?

It is also worth understanding why Britain's railways (and not tramways) were originally required to be fenced, and how that was subsequently changed by interpretation of the Health & Safety at Work Act.

 

Jim 

 

But they are trespassing.

 

It doesn't matter whether they are "in danger", they shouldn't be there. End of story.

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, brian daniels said:

 

At the Trier Dampfest last year someone did get killed in Trier Stn, had to split the tender from loco to shovel him up.

 

So a couple of bits to this,..

No they didn’t shovel him up, he survived, badly injured.

 

The loco was reversing at walking speed and stopped in a few feet as it reversed up the platform. There was another loco (I think it was the BR78) That has arrived from The opposite direction to what the 01 was travelling, into that same platform (there’s a scissors with signalling in the centre of the platform) and may have been the subjects focus of interest with his back to 01.202, with a bag that over hung..After the emergency services arrived, the loco was moved a fraction to release him from the wheels.

 

His life was probably very different afterwards, but not before surgery was performed on the platform, around portable screens, before safely carrying him across the now closed station, evacuated platforms / track to the ambulance waiting by the car park. This took some two hours before he was safely moved from the station.

 

The 01 returned to shed for cleaning, which it needed, even if it’s wheels are red. (I’m not expanding on this).

 

I know this as I saw it transpire and was in extremely closer proximity, much closer, to it occurring than I would have preferred.

 

Finally, I understand he was British.

 

news article here..

 

https://www.volksfreund.de/blaulicht/helfer-retten-eingeklemmten-mann-beim-dampfspektakel-in-trier_aid-22207345

 

A similar occurrence happened at Carlisle a few years earlier, where by a man was caught on a video of Black 5’s departing the station and seen falling between two coach ends. Amazingly he survived unscathed and was videoed climbing back up onto the platform after it had exited and disappeared off the station.

you can see him here in the last 10 seconds climbing up off the track...

 

Was he too close ?

 

jusge for yourself at 2m50 seconds in this video, on his knees, with an out of gauge bag.., you can bet he spun around to get a going away shot, putting his bag in an overhang..

 

 

 

So so how close is too close...

when I first viewed this I thought OMG how close was I, then I realised I actually had my zoom on, (it was my first video with that camera) and there was at least 4-6 people between me and the two locos departing you can see one guys camera in the air reflecting off the coach... that last person was very close... how he kept balance with the drain cocks full open whiting out his vision I can only conceive, as it looks scary from c4ft away in my video.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by adb968008

[298]

1 hour ago, jim.snowdon said:

Not actually in a place of danger, any more than I would have been had I been trackside (legitimately) and wearing full orange.

Do they actually pose a danger to you, any more than had they been standing at a public foot crossing or user-worked crossing?

It is also worth understanding why Britain's railways (and not tramways) were originally required to be fenced, and how that was subsequently changed by interpretation of the Health & Safety at Work Act.

 

Jim 

 

Do you hold a PTS card?  And by which I mean a proper Network Rail one, not just a lineside pass for a preserved railway? 

 

It sounds like the message will never get through to some...

[locoholic]

1 hour ago, 298 said:

 

Do you hold a PTS card?  And by which I mean a proper Network Rail one, not just a lineside pass for a preserved railway? 

 

It sounds like the message will never get through to some...

It can be quite annoying when someone thinks that just because they're in possession of a card they have a monopoly on wisdom. 

 

I would hope that I would never put myself in a position where the driver of an oncoming train would be caused alarm. But the railway still has places where that happens even though no-one is trespassing, such as at footpath crossings and crowded platforms. I don't envy train drivers in those situations, but the railway is not some kind of magic environment where human nature can be counteracted by fences, rules or cards.

 

Recently there was a spate of incidents in my area of children at night lying down in the road in front of oncoming cars to give the drivers a fright. Amazingly, no-one was hurt, but it illustrates the bizarre thought processes that occur in some people's minds. I'm sure those children would have been mucking around by our local railway line if Dr Beeching hadn't closed it 54 years ago. Maybe that's the best way of ensuring no railway accidents - close the railways? When was the last railway fatality in Iceland, after all?