Kato/Peco Announce FR Locos in 009! (confirmed!)

[PaulRhB]

32 minutes ago, nightstar.train said:

Have PECO/Kato said anything about their double fairlie since Bachmann released theirs?

 

27 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

Personally I think they'll cancel it considering Bachmanns successful model. 

John who runs the FR shop and produces their videos responded to a post in November on NGRM, that quoted a retailer saying Peco/Kato weren’t continuing, by saying it wasn’t true. 
I read somewhere else that Mr Kato was keen to continue but that was a less verifiable source than John who knew about both models being researched there. 

[David Stannard]

14 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

 

John who runs the FR shop and produces their videos responded to a post in November on NGRM, that quoted a retailer saying Peco/Kato weren’t continuing, by saying it wasn’t true. 
I read somewhere else that Mr Kato was keen to continue but that was a less verifiable source than John who knew about both models being researched there. 

 

 I can easily see Kato continuing with the Double Fairlie as their domestic market is absolutely massive and Narrow Gauge models fit nicely into the space or lack there of that many Japanese modellers have to work with, international railways that have a strong emphasis on tourism also feature quite well with the Japanese market as it appeals to people who are not modellers as well, this can be seen with the N Scale RhB models offered by Kato, the Hakone Tozan Railway that is part of the Odakyu Railway Group is the sister railway of the RhB and a number of their trains are in liveries that pay homage to the RhB trains. Given Peco already has a footprint in Japan and being in a business relationship with Kato gives them the upper hand, the Small England's sell for around £104.00 in Japan compared to £150.00 in the UK, Bachmann would find it very hard to compete as they would be an imported product up against a domestically produced model, I know foreign models are far more expensive than Japanese models as I got quite a shock seeing how much they cost over there with my own eyes.          

Edited April 18, 2022 by David Stannard

[BernardTPM]

If they do continue it would be sensible for them to do a 'modern' Fairlie to the current, larger FR loading gauge, especially as the new James Spooner is currently being built. The current version of Merddin Emrys and David Lloyd George could be properly covered too. Wild card, maybe the  Earl of Merioneth in its 'Square' incarnation.

Perhaps if it does go ahead Peco might do some FR 'Barns' or 'Super Barns'.

Edited April 18, 2022 by BernardTPM

[didcot]

I've had an afternoon running session with the England's and a double Fairlie on DCC. 

It has highlighted the need for the track to be very clean. The Fairlie is bullet proof. But the England's stall even on slightly tarnished track. Now it may well be there is still paint on the side of the rail head and where the switch blades touch the running rail. The addition of a pound coin on the tender helped alot. It could be the starting voltage is too low.

Has anyone else experienced this?

[nightstar.train]

I do hope Kato continue with fairlie and it’s a much cheaper version. I’d really quite like to make a single fairlie (or two) using the running gear from a double (i don’t think i have the skills to solder it together from a kit, even if one was available). But I’m not going to take a razor saw to a £200 model. I might to a £100 one. Just have to wait and see. As it seems Kato like to make announcements at big fairs what will be next? Nuremberg was cancelled in February. 

[PaulRhB]

7 hours ago, didcot said:

 The addition of a pound coin on the tender helped alot. It could be the starting voltage is too low.

Has anyone else experienced this?

No issues with mine although they aren’t Dcc’d yet. 
If weight helps try some liquid lead glued on the coal and covered over with more finely crushed coal. The coal load clips out from the tender. 

[didcot]

So I managed to get back to the layout today and the England's were as problematic as ever. Constantly stalling. I cleaned a section of track removing paint on the side of the rail head. No change. I messed around with CV setting, some improvement, but nothing dramatic. 

 I did a continuity check on all the track, all good. I was at a loss. 

I did a continuity check between the tender wheels and the leading wheels on the loco. Nothing. I got an intermittent reading if I jiggled the tender wheels. So I took the tender apart.

Step 1 there are 4 small clips on the underside. These release the coal.

 

The two weights you can see are separate and form the electrical connection between the wheels and the pin that connects to the loco drawbar.

Step 2 remove the front wheel set. This allows the weights to be removed. Once they are out the tender tank comes off. But mind the vacuum hose.

Step 3 remove remaining wheel set.

 

 

Above are all the components. Power is transferred via the axles to the copper contacts which in turn touch the weights and to the loco via the drawbar. I gave the contact faces a clean and reassembled in the reverse order. Contacts in first, rear wheel set, tank body, weights, front wheel set and coal.

Again a small improvement but nothing satisfactory and still no continuity. 

I looked at the tender wheels again and they have lots of play. So I popped one out and eased the contact over a bit. Much less play, but the wheels still spun freely. What a difference. Prince ran superbly. I did the same for the other wheel set and the tender for Princess and they trundled around without any issues. I just need to tidy my track up after removing paint. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by didcot

[nightstar.train]

Received my Small England today. Unfortunately, like many others, one of the coupling rods had come loose, and one whistle had come off. Fortunately both pieces were rattling around in the styrofoam tray. I was able to fix the rod, and reattached the whistle with a tiny drop of plasticweld.  It runs beautifully, purrs around the track on very low voltage. It's a shame really as the packaging issues must be doing enormous harm to Peco's/Kato's reputation, and it is a lovely model once you get past those.

 

 

[swsjames]

I received my Princess today, coupling rods attached, and DCC fitted by Digitrains. But it proves a bit of a disappointment. Although the slow running is superb, when running tender first, the tender derails on Peco “Mainline” points. It happens particularly when running onto a point from the heel end when the point is set onto the  curved toe end, and it derails when the leading axle meets the frog. Seems OK running chimney first, but my layout is an out and back arrangement with no turntables (as in the prototype!), so tender first running is unavoidable. 
 

Has anyone else had this problem? Would weighting the tender help?

[swsjames]

Realised what my problem with my Princess is. It is the tender coupler, which is marginally too low. When traversing points with nothing coupled to the tender, the drop loop fouls the point blades and results in derailment. I don't know if this is just my model, or whether they are all the same.

 

The solution, of course, is just to remove the drop loop. The loco then seems to traverse the point work tender first OK.

Edited April 28, 2022 by swsjames
typos

[Ian_M]

19 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

Received my Small England today. Unfortunately, like many others, one of the coupling rods had come loose, and one whistle had come off. Fortunately both pieces were rattling around in the styrofoam tray. I was able to fix the rod, and reattached the whistle with a tiny drop of plasticweld.  It runs beautifully, purrs around the track on very low voltage. It's a shame really as the packaging issues must be doing enormous harm to Peco's/Kato's reputation, and it is a lovely model once you get past those.

 

 

The packaging issues are unfortunate, but in defense of Kato they aren't universal. It's one of those things where the people who have a problem post online, but everyone unaffected keeps stum. I have received a batch of 30 direct from Japan (Peco won't sell to me) and none have been affected.

 

It is indeed a lovely model.

[PaulRhB]

22 minutes ago, swsjames said:

Realised what my problem with my Princess is. It is the tender coupler, which is marginally too low. When traversing points with nothing coupled to the tender, the drop loop fouls the point blades and results in derailment. I don't know if this is just my model, or whether they are all the same.

 

The solution, of course, is just to remove the drop loop. The loco then seems to traverse the point work tender first OK.

If you don’t want to lose the loop you could just trim the two drop tails on it with cutters. I’ve had the same with other stock in the past. I just trimmed a mm off the bottom of those. 

[PaulRhB]

14 minutes ago, Ian_M said:

The packaging issues are unfortunate, but in defense of Kato they aren't universal.

No it only seems to be a real problem with rougher individual handling in the post and having seen parcels being lobbed into sorting bins in the post office or by certain couriers I’m not surprised. Thing is they need to cater for the lowest common denominator, fortunately it’s been identified for the subsequent batches and Peco have issued a statement and reassured people they’ll fix any problems. 

[Jenny Emily]

Overall I’m pretty happy with mine. The first arrived damaged, but I can’t fault Peco being quick to admit the issues and working to sort them.
 

There are a couple of gripes, but nothing insurmountable. DCC fitting was a huge pain, but I hope this and the packaging are addressed when the next run is made. Video of mine: 

 

 

[nightstar.train]

A new problem has occurred to mine today. It seems if you lift the engine off the track and don't hold the tender as well, the tender is heavy enough to use the coupling as a lever and pop the keeper plate off the base of the loco. This is what happened when i was letting my son play with it. Unfortunately the keeper plate is only screwed at the front, the back just clips in. Slightly tricky fix as the wheel bearings slipped out and they are square so had to fiddled back in. So be careful lifting it up! 

[Worsdell forever]

 

[E100]

I think I'll wait for second run of these; hopefully with DCC funtionality... ...if it doesn't I'll bite the bullet and get one anyway and do the hardwire option.

[PaulRhB]

3 hours ago, E100 said:

I think I'll wait for second run of these; hopefully with DCC funtionality... ...if it doesn't I'll bite the bullet and get one anyway and do the hardwire option.

 

 

Mr Kato was here last week for meetings and rode the Snowdonian and the gravity train. I was chatting to Andrew from Peco and he made no mention of any change of tooling and he was the one who told me it was Kato that decided to drop it in the first place. So sorry highly unlikely you’ll see a DCC socket added. 

[E100]

43 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

 

 

Mr Kato was here last week for meetings and rode the Snowdonian and the gravity train. I was chatting to Andrew from Peco and he made no mention of any change of tooling and he was the one who told me it was Kato that decided to drop it in the first place. So sorry highly unlikely you’ll see a DCC socket added. 

Sad times. Thanks for the information.

 

 

Had a look at the new Zimo sound decoders and some of them are mightily small. I wonder about a small speaker in the tender as an option if the weight is removed and coal remodelled. Obviously would need to route power and speaker cables. Some lead shot will be needed of course / may look to use powerbase on the unbuilt layout.

Edited May 4, 2022 by E100

[didcot]

See my earlier post on dismantling the tender. The internal weights form part of the electrical circuit and the split pin the loco drawbar couples too. They are held in place with the coal. Even if you could thin them down I doubt a speaker would fit and electrical continuity would be maintained. 

Never say never, but certainly difficult. 

[JaymzHatstand]

On 02/05/2022 at 13:54, Worsdell forever said:

 

That sounds very nice indeed, is that a work job, or have you taken the plunge and headed to the darkside of narrow gauge?!

 

Cheers

 

J

[Worsdell forever]

19 minutes ago, JaymzHatstand said:

That sounds very nice indeed, is that a work job, or have you taken the plunge and headed to the darkside of narrow gauge?!

 

Cheers

 

J

 

No, that's not mine.

[JaymzHatstand]

2 hours ago, Worsdell forever said:

 

No, that's not mine.

I must admit, I would have been surprised! Unless of course, it was getting a repaint into Saxony Green! 

 

Now there's a thought!

 

Cheers

 

J

[E100]

Before I take the plunge, what is the tightest radius these will run effectively on? Hoping to get away with 200mm curves.

 

Is there any space for powerbase magnets?

[Roy Langridge]

2 hours ago, E100 said:

Before I take the plunge, what is the tightest radius these will run effectively on? Hoping to get away with 200mm curves.

 

Is there any space for powerbase magnets?

 

Posted earlier as 217mm.

 

 

Roy