RMweb Premium Neil Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 Yes, the M40. And every human in a car or lorry. But the answer isn't to put them on a train but to remove the need for travelling at all. Travel is one of the joys of life or at least it should be. It widens our horizons, it enables us to make face to face contact with the rest of humanity, it allows us to work where we want and often at what we want to do. It makes us citizens of the world. The opposite roots us in one place, limits our opportunities, cuts us off from the spread of human contact, makes us insular and inward looking. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 HS2 Trains. Talk about two of the bidding consortia in Rail Technology Magazine...... Hitachi & Bombardier: A high-speed legacy Alstom: Creating something special . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 The proposed HS2 stations will not just be built as stand alone entities. Work is in hand to develop the station environs and other surrounding areas, with the aim of maximising and fostering economic growth around the stations. DfT owned, London & Continental Railways are a key player in this work. (note: LCR are now completely divested from any involvement with HS1 (CTRL). They are the successor to BRB (Residuary) Ltd, which they took over a few years ago). http://www.lcrhq.co.uk/our-business/hs2-growth-partnership/ https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/midlands/regeneration-giant-lined-up-for-hs2-project . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Travel is one of the joys of life or at least it should be. It wasn't yesterday for my sister, traveling from London to Wigan at mid day. Should have been a simple journey - the Pendolino was late / cancelled and many were bundled onto a London - Birmingham - Edinburgh service alongside - a 5 car diesel Vovager - crammed to the gunnels with many standing. The whole line for this journey is electrified, so why is this train diesel ? If the bearded one really cares for the planet he should look into this, and also as to why we gave many fine class 86's & 87's to foreign countries, and scrap / store Mk 3's etc. As I've said before - our railways are a joke. Anyway, the voyager left Euston 3 late and arrived in Wigan 2 early. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 It wasn't yesterday for my sister, traveling from London to Wigan at mid day. Should have been a simple journey - the Pendolino was late / cancelled and many were bundled onto a London - Birmingham - Edinburgh service alongside - a 5 car diesel Vovager - crammed to the gunnels with many standing. The whole line for this journey is electrified, so why is this train diesel ? If the bearded one really cares for the planet he should look into this, and also as to why we gave many fine class 86's & 87's to foreign countries, and scrap / store Mk 3's etc. As I've said before - our railways are a joke. Anyway, the voyager left Euston 3 late and arrived in Wigan 2 early. Brit15 The joke is the way that what ought to be an integrated entity has been "sliced and diced" into so many different independent pieces each motivated by its own need to make a profit (or cost the Treasury as little as possible) with so much "fault and financial compensation" culture imposed on top that it's not surprising that when things go wrong they go wrong in a big way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 It wasn't yesterday for my sister, traveling from London to Wigan at mid day. Should have been a simple journey - the Pendolino was late / cancelled and many were bundled onto a London - Birmingham - Edinburgh service alongside - a 5 car diesel Vovager - crammed to the gunnels with many standing. The whole line for this journey is electrified, so why is this train diesel ? If the bearded one really cares for the planet he should look into this, and also as to why we gave many fine class 86's & 87's to foreign countries, and scrap / store Mk 3's etc. As I've said before - our railways are a joke. Anyway, the voyager left Euston 3 late and arrived in Wigan 2 early. Brit15 There have been various plans to either add a pantograph car to the 221s or replace them with new bi-modes but all thwarted by DfT in one way or another. West Coast is up for renewal again so maybe this time, finally it will get sorted. As for class 86 &87, they were life expired and with a shortage of spares. Even the Eastern European’s are robbing classmates to keep them running. They are also too slow to mix with the Pendo fleet. The Pendo fleet is (normally) far more reliable than the LHCS they replaced. It could’ve been worse and it could have been a GWR service where 5 car IET in lieu of a 9 or 10 car is common and IET reliability is shocking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 There have been various plans to either add a pantograph car to the 221s or replace them with new bi-modes but all thwarted by DfT in one way or another. I thought this was down to engineering difficulties, as the units needed a major rebuild to include the necessary power distribution between coaches? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) I thought this was down to engineering difficulties, as the units needed a major rebuild to include the necessary power distribution between coaches? Correct - the units were not built with the provision of inter car cabling to distribute the traction power from any new transformer vehicle to the traction motors. However, by the same token, nothing is impossible if you throw enough money at it and had HM Government stumped up enough cash then I'm sure the owners and engineers would have found a way to do it. Edited October 23, 2018 by phil-b259 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 "Life expired" class 86 electric locos pass through Wigan almost daily on long heavy Freightliner container trains - sometimes double headed. They don't seem to bother Pendolinos. https://www.freightliner.co.uk/group/our-fleet/locomotives/ Brit15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) It wasn't yesterday for my sister, traveling from London to Wigan at mid day. Should have been a simple journey - the Pendolino was late / cancelled and many were bundled onto a London - Birmingham - Edinburgh service alongside - a 5 car diesel Vovager - crammed to the gunnels with many standing. The whole line for this journey is electrified, so why is this train diesel ? If the bearded one really cares for the planet he should look into this, and also as to why we gave many fine class 86's & 87's to foreign countries, and scrap / store Mk 3's etc. As I've said before - our railways are a joke. Anyway, the voyager left Euston 3 late and arrived in Wigan 2 early. Brit15 Please remember that 'the Bearded one' has *uc* all say in the trains used by the franchise. Yes the Virgin group did order the Voyagers, but that was only because HM Government let them in the first place (by virtue of awarding the franchise). To recap for those that don't get it - when it comes to rolling stock,what type and how much of it a TOC has, ALL rolling stock franchises can use is heavily regulated by the franchise agreements signed with HM Government and said Government body will refuse any significant changes during a franchise for fear of disrupting the Tresauarys calculations. Rolling stock changes can therefore only effectively be made when franchises are re-let as this provides an opportunity for the Bean counters to crunch the numbers and determine what they want - then ensure they get it via the invitation to tender. Make no mistake - the rash of new train orders / fleet replacement which has accompanied the most recent set of franchise awards is all due to HM Government deciding they want 'new trains' to bribe the voters with Edited October 23, 2018 by phil-b259 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 "Life expired" class 86 electric locos pass through Wigan almost daily on long heavy Freightliner container trains - sometimes double headed. They don't seem to bother Pendolinos. https://www.freightliner.co.uk/group/our-fleet/locomotives/ Brit15 They also have a lower top speed, cannot tilt, and take up space that can otherwise be used for profit earning cargo. Obviously none of these are an issue in freight operation - whose companies do not have a complicated profit / subsidy arrangement with the UK Government. That said the decision of the DfT to go with a loco hauled option for TPE shows loco haulage can win out on occasion - even though I suspect the DfTs decision may have been influenced by the intended electrification plan being completed in its entirety meaning further alterations to TPE services happening and the consequent need for flexibility within the rolling stock used by the franchise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2018 Yes, the M40. And every human in a car or lorry. But the answer isn't to put them on a train but to remove the need for travelling at all. I'm not at all sure how you remove the need for travelling? The vast majority of people are unable to work where they live - for example our town. has a significant inward commuter movement, mainly in private cars, everyday of people travelling to work here such as many of the shop staff in Tesco or folk working in hairdressers, shops and restaurants. Equally there is outward commuting, by both car and rail (and one or two by helicopter) by people who cannot do by their own fireside the sort of work they are trained and skilled to carry on. I cannot shop unless I go by car because humping the heavier items - such as a joint of meat or cans of beans - up the hill to my house is not an easy task. I'm sorry but while some travel might well be 'controllable' much of it in today's society cannot. The simple effect of people moving away from where they were born in order to find work or afford a home, or even be educated, will generate travel. And at the end of it all my potential last journey - like almost all other peoples' - will be inside a box to the cemetery or crematorium and will inevitably have to be in a car of some kind (or maybe a Transit van). 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) The Scottish government is not interested in the prospect of high speed its even smaller than England and has many rather large mountains in the way! Holyrood is very much on record as saying that it is... Also any high speed network in Scotland wouldn't be going anywhere near said mountains because that's not where the cities it would/should serve are. Edited October 23, 2018 by frobisher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Scottish cities are quite small so they already have an excellent service from Scot-Rail a franchise that really shows how to provide excellent services to the lucky people in the far north of the UK.No need for an HS2 with a kilt as the two main routes to England have capacity and provide connections to many destinations in the south with no change at a reasonable speed and fare ,its all about connectivity something that HS2 will only provide selectively something you cant argue about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Perhaps you should really check to see what Holyrood's stance on rail and high speed rail is in particular before putting finger to keyboard and going into a battle of wits unarmed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I think that the scots have far more important things to worry about than HS2 and if goes to Scotland they will make sure we pay for it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 It wasn't yesterday for my sister, traveling from London to Wigan at mid day. Should have been a simple journey - the Pendolino was late / cancelled and many were bundled onto a London - Birmingham - Edinburgh service alongside - a 5 car diesel Vovager - crammed to the gunnels with many standing. The whole line for this journey is electrified, so why is this train diesel ? If the bearded one really cares for the planet he should look into this, and also as to why we gave many fine class 86's & 87's to foreign countries, and scrap / store Mk 3's etc. As I've said before - our railways are a joke. Anyway, the voyager left Euston 3 late and arrived in Wigan 2 early. Brit15 Most Scotland/Euston via Birmingham services are formed by Pendolinos, the odd one is a 10-car Voyager (eg 0852 ex Edinburgh) and a few are 5-car Voyager (eg 1000 ex Glasgow C and the train you were unfortunate enough to have to use). The reason is that there are not enough Pendolinos to cover every train, and this goes back to when Virgin ordered the Voyagers which were intended for, among other things, the Scotland/South and South West via the WCML through services, which no longer operate due to subsequent franchise changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Population growth is a huge problem but a 'one child' policy should deal with it. Planting new trees isn't really a solution when it comes to replacing the complex ecosystem of an ancient woodland. I hope you don't buy model railway products that are made from plastics and metals extracted from the ground then shipped around the world burning more of the earth. I trust you don't buy cotton clothing which is having a massive environmental impact on large parts of the world, I trust you don't own a car. As someone who lives near Manchester I wish they would get on and build this, we desperately need the capacity on the London / Birmingham routes. Also get rid of the useless northern service and end the Saturday strikes (keep the guards). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I have found some figures on monies paid out to the four largest accountancy companie in the UK who in turn got contracts for their customers this can not be right.The total paid out was £19.5 million.The station contracts £221 million was paid out to a customer one of the big four One company was paid £4.7 m for consultative work and they are still coining cash and placing their customer in contracts no matter what anyone says in reply to this post the situation is not good and to think we taxpayers are paying for this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I have found some figures on monies paid out to the four largest accountancy companie in the UK who in turn got contracts for their customers this can not be right.The total paid out was £19.5 million.The station contracts £221 million was paid out to a customer one of the big four One company was paid £4.7 m for consultative work and they are still coining cash and placing their customer in contracts no matter what anyone says in reply to this post the situation is not good and to think we taxpayers are paying for this.And you're also paying them to audit the accounts, but you don't realise that as the companies pay the auditors' fees and will make allowance for that cost when setting the selling prices of the goods and services that you and every other taxpayer buy from big companies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 I have found some figures on monies paid out to the four largest accountancy companie in the UK who in turn got contracts for their customers this can not be right.The total paid out was £19.5 million.The station contracts £221 million was paid out to a customer one of the big four One company was paid £4.7 m for consultative work and they are still coining cash and placing their customer in contracts no matter what anyone says in reply to this post the situation is not good and to think we taxpayers are paying for this. WHAT utter gibberish. Have you been drinking? The Big 4 accountancy firms represent pretty much all of the big U.K. construction, Industrial and Retail companies as well as government. The HS2 construction contracts were competitively tendered to multinational joint venture companies. A lot of the design consultancies and programme management consultancies are multinational (typically American) and there aren’t many of them with the size to cover HS2. It’s the same for any infrastructure project of this size, it’s a very limited field of companies with the size and expertise that can bid due to the high numbers of staff, high bid costs (several £million), cash flow and risks taken on. Please refrain from posting things you are making up with no knowledge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 More site works underway https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-45971226 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted October 26, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 26, 2018 More site works underway https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-45971226 That made the main breakfast news this morning and I was impressed that it was a very positive piece with no mention of controversy. Jamie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Black and Decker Boy I do not post gibberish I was not drunk and how dare you say I should not post, those facts are true like it or not it shows how the contracts for all works are in the hands of a few favoured companies.We live in a democracy but certain posters on here seem to not want to hear the other side of peoples views its not good to nly onesides views ,rant over lets get on with enjoying our hobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 I have found some figures on monies paid out to the four largest accountancy companie in the UK who in turn got contracts for their customers this can not be right.The total paid out was £19.5 million.The station contracts £221 million was paid out to a customer one of the big four One company was paid £4.7 m for consultative work and they are still coining cash and placing their customer in contracts no matter what anyone says in reply to this post the situation is not good and to think we taxpayers are paying for this. Could you post the link to this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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