Mike Storey Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Drop the full stops and 'cause' at the end of the link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46461606 I see Michael Byng is still pushing his stuff, and is being rolled out now every time there is a HS2 story. Given that NR and DfT have disowned him (practically called him a liar), and that his "claims" for previous responsibilities have turned out to be just a tad, gross exaggerations, I wonder why? Allan Clark looks an interesting choice to replace Terry Morgan at HS2. His time heading up WS Atkins will stand him in good stead, as will his longstanding work on construction skills development and retention. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 I see Michael Byng is still pushing his stuff, and is being rolled out now every time there is a HS2 story. Given that NR and DfT have disowned him (practically called him a liar), and that his "claims" for previous responsibilities have turned out to be just a tad, gross exaggerations, I wonder why? Allan Clark looks an interesting choice to replace Terry Morgan at HS2. His time heading up WS Atkins will stand him in good stead, as will his longstanding work on construction skills development and retention. It's a very unusual report from the BBC, in that they've actually allowed Grayling to respond to criticism of HS2 by Byng. Normally the media just print the Government version of a story, and then the critics version without any Government response. Shame they then reverted to type and forgot to mention that Lord Berkeley is a Labour politician before allowing him to explain, as an independent unbiased 'rail expert', why everything his political rivals are planning is doomed to failure..... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Noted that HS2 are reportedly considering reducing speeds and number of services is this result of realisation that money is tight or have they realised that the numbers who could use the line not as high as expected.Hope that no payoff is given to this chairman he has not delivered previous projects on time or on budget.(article in Rail) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Shame they then reverted to type and forgot to mention that Lord Berkeley is a Labour politician before allowing him to explain, as an independent unbiased 'rail expert', why everything his political rivals are planning is doomed to failure..... Not sure that is entirely relevant. His rampage is joined with Bill Bradshaw, a LibDem, and the concept was originally launched by the Labour government, who created HS2 Ltd prior to 2010. Quite why Tony Berkeley continues to ally himself with Byng remains a mystery to most. He did this over his Euston Cross proposal, when he allied with Jonathan Roberts, which was claimed to be far superior to HS2's preferred option (if you were to believe his clever publicity and the gullible media), but was completely shot down by three facts - it would cost £3 billion more, it would displace all the residents of SomersTown (something probably of lesser concern to him and his pals living in the more affluent parts of Camden, that will be affected) and that the geology along the route suggested by Roberts was horrendously difficult. Berkeley has long been a bit of an eccentric, and really did the Rail Freight Group no favours when in charge of that (Section 17 grants plummeted during his tenure). But he does not lack engineering expertise, and was professionally involved in the building of the Channel Tunnel. Unlike the StopHS2 group which keeps quoting him, he does not oppose the principle of HS2, merely the route chosen and the way it is being administered, partly political but also in terms of transparency. I vividly remember many of the same debates during planning and construction of the Chunnel and then HS1. Virtually no-one (outside the industry) even remembers how much they cost now, and few people could imagine a UK infrastructure without them. So, whilst the pantomime of hubris and indignation (real or synthesised) continues for a while yet, I doubt much of it will be of consequence in 20 years time. What is important, for democracy, is that HMG is seen to be being held to account, and Berkeley, Bradshaw and a few others, will act that out for a while yet. Costs will rise (inevitably as they were at 2014 prices), delays will occur, and much will be made of every miniscule issue to "prove" the scheme is in chaos. Meanwhile, I note that the Highways Agency have just asked for another £20 billion for even more of the Smart Motorway works that will so enliven our journeys for another ten or fifteen years. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Noted that HS2 are reportedly considering reducing speeds and number of services is this result of realisation that money is tight or have they realised that the numbers who could use the line not as high as expected.(article in Rail) Have not seen, and am not able to see the article for a few weeks. Look forward to assessing source. No mention of it in other media. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Not sure that is entirely relevant. His rampage is joined with Bill Bradshaw, a LibDem, and the concept was originally launched by the Labour government, who created HS2 Ltd prior to 2010. It's relevant because the BBC news article presents him as an nonpartisan 'industry expert' commentator, rather than a politician whose commentary may be subject to party political bias. That's poor journalism by the BBC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 It's relevant because the BBC news article presents him as an nonpartisan 'industry expert' commentator, rather than a politician whose commentary may be subject to party political bias. That's poor journalism by the BBC. Ok, I see your point about that. I think the "industry expert" description is rather more misleading, however....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted December 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 15, 2018 This news about corrupt competition practices by two UK Crossrail and HS2 construction suppliers [and one Irish] comes at a bad time given the cost over-runs on both projects. http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/two-hs2-and-crossrail-suppliers-admit-to-running-illegal-cartel-for-7-years Let's see what BBC 'Panorama' has to say in 30 minutes on Monday about HS2 but the mood music is not good, even if hard news on rising costs is clearly being suppressed. Councillors in Erewash have finally realized the destructive impact the line will have on Long Eaton if built to the current plans. East Midlands rail users want to see whole-line service improvements now and in the next franchise, preferably electrification and new trains, not having to wait until 2035 to get a HS2 link via Toton Fields. A beleaguered non-government with HM Treasury facing the economic crisis of Brexit hitting tax revenues and cost increases will find it increasingly difficult to defend the Eastern branch of HS2 even if stage 1 goes ahead, which still seems likely. This story has much further to run. I can see the arguments both ways but HS2 is not winning many of them at present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 (edited) This news about corrupt competition practices by two UK Crossrail and HS2 construction suppliers [and one Irish] comes at a bad time given the cost over-runs on both projects. http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/two-hs2-and-crossrail-suppliers-admit-to-running-illegal-cartel-for-7-years Let's see what BBC 'Panorama' has to say in 30 minutes on Monday about HS2 but the mood music is not good, even if hard news on rising costs is clearly being suppressed. Councillors in Erewash have finally realized the destructive impact the line will have on Long Eaton if built to the current plans. East Midlands rail users want to see whole-line service improvements now and in the next franchise, preferably electrification and new trains, not having to wait until 2035 to get a HS2 link via Toton Fields. A beleaguered non-government with HM Treasury facing the economic crisis of Brexit hitting tax revenues and cost increases will find it increasingly difficult to defend the Eastern branch of HS2 even if stage 1 goes ahead, which still seems likely. This story has much further to run. I can see the arguments both ways but HS2 is not winning many of them at present. I am not convinced that the concrete products news will have had any significant effect on overall project costs (although the practices uncovered are clearly damaging to the reputation of the infrastructure business). I have worked with one of these firms, in the early to mid-2000's, and their innovative modular platform extensions systems and integrated drainage products, probably saved us a fortune in construction time and costs compared to more traditional methods/materials being offered by others. If there was suppression of competition for comparable items (which there may well be by now), then the case would have more legs. As for Erewash etc, for sure there will continue to be refinement to the Phase 2 route, as there was to Phase 1, at this stage, but the concept is still overwhelmingly supported by TfN and almost all Northern regions and conurbations. In particular, if Phase 2 does not go ahead, it may well put any HS3 type trans-pennine possibility into the long grass too. I think we have already covered the fact that: a) the annualised construction costs of HS2 (even if they rise somewhat) represent a pretty small part of total government expenditure b) in recession (which you imply may happen with Brexit), it is highly desirable for government funded capital schemes to stimulate the economy c) Phase 1 is far less effective without Phase 2, bar extra capacity for London commuter services. d) if Phase 2 ceases to serve the East Coast, much of the capacity gain on that side of the country is also lost, and the North West will grow even faster above Yorkshire and the NE than it is doing now. Edited December 16, 2018 by Mike Storey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Surely the exposure of price fixing means that the cost of HS2 will potentially come down (probably not by much), as the current costings will be based on the artificially inflated prices provided by the suppliers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Surely the exposure of price fixing means that the cost of HS2 will potentially come down (probably not by much), as the current costings will be based on the artificially inflated prices provided by the suppliers? That is an upside, yes. But probably as minor as some of the more outlandish claims about cost pressures from "unrealistic estimates". Estimates are as good as the information both from past costs for similar work (indexed) and from the certainty of scope, including compensation parameters, ground conditions, utilities and so on, as well as changes demanded by the world and its uncle (quite legitimately, I hasten to add, in a number of cases). Quite what the basis is for others (Messrs Byng and his acolytes) to say the estimates are grossly out, remains to be seen. One of their key accusations is that spending on Phase 1 will be so high, that most of the budget for Phase 2 will have already been used. Whilst there are rumours circulating that this argument has some legs, it is opaque as to where that supposition has arisen. One BIG issue that makes me very sceptical of their imaginative cost revisions, is that they have used the costs per mile of the London end (albeit claiming to have recognised that those costs will reduce further outside London) as the basis for their claims. There may be some truth in that, I don't know, but we do know that there was a 40% contingency on those costs. The fact that they have not attacked the estimates for the Curzon Street end, which has adopted a rather different approach from that presumed in the 2014 plan, leads me to believe the issue is really, really focused on the compensation interests of the wealthy houseowners of Camden, of which at least two of the combatants are members. A couple of hundred extra quid for drainage channel segments, just isn't going to hack this. But hay will be made, no doubt. That said, I continue to accept that the final cost will rise. But not as much as Trump's Wall, and this one is designed to encourage people to travel, not to stop them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) More preparatory work getting into full swing. Following departure of the last HST's, demolition of the GWR Old Oak Common depot is now underway. Edited December 17, 2018 by Ron Ron Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Article here.... https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/projects/project-reports/hs2s-old-oak-common-station-how-to-build-a-mega-project/10038107.article#.XBUKv4fy99o.twitter . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I see the BBC and some of the papers are already reporting "revelations" about HS2 costs, to be aired on Panorama this evening. I will be on the road for the next few days so will not be able to watch it, but from what I have read so far, the biggest "news" is from the ex-head of property, who will state that land and property purchasing costs have been understated by up to £1.9 billion. The only thing is, this was "exposed" by the Sunday Times last June, and had anyway been reported to the NAO over the preceding several months, after which HS2 Ltd were challenged to demonstrate their estimation processes were robust. Little came of it, and it would appear (according to House of Commons recent research papers), that such costs, which have formed the majority of monies paid to date, are largely in line with HS2's published predictions. It will be interesting to learn whether anything new arises tonight, but I somehow doubt it, from experience of Panorama's output previously. I assume the usual Mssrs Byng/Lord Elpus show will also feature heavily. No doubt chums on here will report items of interest, once the prog has aired? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 This is what the BBC are currently reporting: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46586603 In summary: Person who was sacked says former employers are idiots. People upset because their idea of how much their house is worth is higher than the HS2 surveyor's valuation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Time for a London tax. £10 to get in £100 to get out All proceeds go "ooooooop north" !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Brit15 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Watched the programme and have to say HS2 came over as a bunch of crooks and please do not shout its all lies and why should people whose houses are being demolished not get full full market value for them I bet you supporters would want it if it was your house but as most of you seem to live miles from the route you have no real interest.I hope that more of this comes out as having seen the glib attitude at road shows they could not give a stuff who gets in their way and this only highlights this. Doubtless I will receive the usual rude idiotic comments but you will have to agree that more and more bad news is coming out on HS2 and doubtless the RMT is shaping up for strikes in the future about gua.Please don't wasrds not being on trains or the wages are to low. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Computer went potty and the end of post should have read Please don't waste rude words calling me a liar it wont work and there still time to pull the plug on this unneeded project.Doubtless the RMT are planning strikes already! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 George Hudson would be proud of HS2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 George Hudson would be proud of HS2. No he will be turning in his grave at all the delays and compensation that will be getting paid out! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I support HS2 but agree that people who’s property are directly affected should not be out of pocket (ie they lose land / property or have a direct land boundary). One issue is what people imagine is market value vs what a professional Valuer says it is. HS2 are not alone in hitting this problem, most major infrastructure schemes that require private land hit the same problems and get the same criticisms. The next one along will be the Oxford to Cambridge expressway scything it’s way through the Aylesbury Vale within 10 years. A dual carriageway road requires a lot more land take than a 2 track railway. On schemes I’ve been involved with, initial offers are usually far more generous than final figures set by a court if you force them to CPO the land. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 One issue is what people imagine is market value vs what a professional Valuer says it is. The problem here is that house prices are so subjective, and not an exact science so a house is really only worth what people are prepared to pay for it. The HS2 valuer is also not on a percentage commission like an estate agent will be, and so doesn't have any incentive to bump the price up that tiny little bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 The problem here is that house prices are so subjective, and not an exact science so a house is really only worth what people are prepared to pay for it. The HS2 valuer is also not on a percentage commission like an estate agent will be, and so doesn't have any incentive to bump the price up that tiny little bit. House prices ask anyone what their house is worth they will always give you the highest, in reality a house is worth nothing till you find someone to part with the cash for it! Plus there is a small army of solicitors sending out letters to get people claiming for the devaluing of their properties! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 One cannot blame homeowners for wanting to obtain the maximum value for their house, particularly when they are being forced to move for a project like HS2, and they should be compensated for the inconvenience caused, but at the same time it is taxpayers' money being spent and any payments made must be realistic and fair. BBC Breakfast yesterday morning gave an example of a homeowner having to move after spending many years in, and much money on, their house, but as is usual with BBC so-called 'investigations' no actual detail was provided, ie how much the owner valued their home compared to HS2, or indeed an independent valuation, or just how many cases have been settled as opposed to those outstanding - No 'happy' homeowners were interviewed of course ! (although maybe there aren't any - You could not possibly know from the BBC report). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) RICS has very robust procedures in place for valuing properties. In the event of a dispute between a property owner and HS2, the matter will go to arbitration. It's a bit more complicated where a business has to be relocated. The sort of differences that Byng and co were talking about on Panorama would only add about 2% to the overall cost of the project, not really that significant. But at least one of the claims looked overblown given that it involved 1960s office blocks, not usually much in demand. That said, I still think it crazy to build the London terminal at Euston. Edited December 18, 2018 by Joseph_Pestell 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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