Christopher125 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) trains only used at 56% capacity out of Euston at rush hour? Were they doing their survey during the morning or evening rush hour I wonder or have they combined the morning and evening figures to get this total? "HS2AA carried out a survey of trains on the WCML which showed that on average the trains leaving Euston at peak hours before 7pm were only 56% full.Those leaving after 7pm, when the cheaper fares start were full." Which of course isnt quite the same thing, though im sure Jerry wasnt trying to mislead anyone... Not exactly the most convincing survey i've ever heard, and the suggestion is laughable. Chris Edited January 30, 2012 by Christopher125 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted May 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2012 New report from MP's on HS2 saying it is the only option. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18169435 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Can't they plug in a section that bypasses London and heads directly for the tunnel, thereby connecting the rest of the island to the wider world without having to go through 'the big leech'? ;-) Dave. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Can't they plug in a section that bypasses London and heads directly for the tunnel, thereby connecting the rest of the island to the wider world without having to go through 'the big leech'? ;-) Dave. I'm sure many of us would like to see this. However, the loadings on HS1 remain well below the predictions and the stock built for services from north of London to the Continent are flourishing in the hands of SNCF on internal services. If trains were to run from places other than London to mainland Europe, what would be the arrangements for border control? Could mini Checkpoint Charlies be justified at every likely calling point or would trains have to run in and out of London for processing? If the latter, there is sadly no point in a London bypass. Rail travel in Europe benefits from the Schengen agreement to which Switzerland is also a signatory. Thus one can board an ICE in Zurich and remain on it as far as Kiel unmolested by Customs. Fat chance of GB signing up to that! At least even MPs now understand that there is no alternative to HS2. Chris Edited May 23, 2012 by chrisf 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2012 I'm sure many of us would like to see this. However, the loadings on HS1 remain well below the predictions and the stock built for services from north of London to the Continent are flourishing in the hands of SNCF on internal services. Chris Absolutely right Chris - London & Continental cancelled Regional Eurostar at fairly short notice because on their re-evaluation they found the figures simply would not stack up into any sort of commercial case. No doubt a 'fast' line which avoided London, or at least a major London time-wasting experience could improve commercial chances but logically the trains would still have to call somewhere 'in the London area' to stand any chance of boosting loadings - but then just take a look at HS1 loadings as you say. Logically if through trains ever did happen the security checks and passport control would be done on-train, certainly so in the southbound direction as was intended with Regional Eurostar - but that will increase costs dramatically as HMRC like to be paid for doing things in that way. Complying with UK border requirements and the Chunnel Act northbound would be 'interesting' (and it still remains to be revealed how DB intend to deal with that little problem). So overall although it has its attractions I think the market will be small and going 'beyond London' will remain a commercial non-runner - as it has always been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 There is a connection planned between HS2 at Old Oak Common and HS1, which in theory would allow trains to run through calling only at Old Oak*, but it's single track and involves bodging various bits of the North London Line and generally gives the impression of having been an afterthought. *or at least I think it is, but reversal in St Pancras may also be needed. The links from the DfT website are still there but the files themselves have vanished. Birmingham-Paris would be within the 3-4h rail journey time for which rail is reckoned to be competitive with air, so it's just possible we might see a train every couple of hours on that route, but as pointed out the security issues make it very difficult to pick up and drop off at intermediate stations and across the world there are few if any trains that are viable solely on international traffic. The link may have more potential for international parcels trains such as the ones proposed by the company that recently brought a Postal TGV to St Pancras. It also means Euro-standard trains could transfer between the UK and the Continent without having to be split up and transported by road. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 There is a connection planned between HS2 at Old Oak Common and HS1, which in theory would allow trains to run through calling only at Old Oak*, but it's single track and involves bodging various bits of the North London Line and generally gives the impression of having been an afterthought. *or at least I think it is, but reversal in St Pancras may also be needed. The links from the DfT website are still there but the files themselves have vanished. Birmingham-Paris would be within the 3-4h rail journey time for which rail is reckoned to be competitive with air, so it's just possible we might see a train every couple of hours on that route, but as pointed out the security issues make it very difficult to pick up and drop off at intermediate stations and across the world there are few if any trains that are viable solely on international traffic. There's a drawing on the dft website here: http://highspeedrail.dft.gov.uk/sites/highspeedrail.dft.gov.uk/files/hs2arp00drrw05001issue3.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I'm sure many of us would like to see this. However, the loadings on HS1 remain well below the predictions and the stock built for services from north of London to the Continent are flourishing in the hands of SNCF on internal services. If trains were to run from places other than London to mainland Europe, what would be the arrangements for border control? Could mini Checkpoint Charlies be justified at every likely calling point or would trains have to run in and out of London for processing? If the latter, there is sadly no point in a London bypass. Rail travel in Europe benefits from the Schengen agreement to which Switzerland is also a signatory. Thus one can board an ICE in Zurich and remain on it as far as Kiel unmolested by Customs. Fat chance of GB signing up to that! At least even MPs now understand that there is no alternative to HS2. Chris Why is there no alternative Chris? Surely HS1 was always going to be the flag ship and, as you say, is under used. I can't help feeling that HS2 will be a very expensive white elephant used by those that can afford it and subsidised by those that can't. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Ed, I was referring to the BBC report that can be read using the link in post 355 by Kris above. To summarise, a committee of MPs has been examining the proposals for HS2 and has concluded that it is the only way of providing the extra capacitry on the rail network that is considered necessary. The logic behind building a new fast route is that capacity will be made available on the existing route/s, enabling intermediate stations to be given a better service - or in some cases a service where none exists. Whether this is what will actually happen is an unknown but I hope to live long enougn to find out. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2012 The problem seems to be that the new rail link (HS 2) is seen by those that denigrate it as primarily an extra 'elitist' line and not as a capacity upgrade to the existing core network. Several studies have been done to determine what capacity is needed on the WCML and elsewhere in years to come. The figures produced can only be met by building a new line. Once you have come to this conclusion the logical step is to make it High Speed. The extra costs of high speed over a traditional speed line (125mph/140mph), I assume, are not great. The anti-HS2 brigade have constantly harped on about how any extra capacity can be provided by upgrading the present WCML. I have yet to see a proper report that suggests that this is a practicable /feasible option and the latest MPs report also comes to this conclusion. Keith 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I have just heard Justine Greening (Transport Secretary) interviewed on the radio. She said that "more than half of HS2 will be in tunnel or cutting". Who on earth would want to travel on that? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Either a largely-buried HS2 or no HS2 at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 There's absolutely nothing new in that statement Ed. This has been known for ages. There's pressure for more of it to be put in cut and cover or behind earth mounds, to lessen the visual and noise impact. At least it might stop the moaning about seats lining up with windows. There'll be no need ! . 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Hi, It's probably better to continue the conversation in this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/27462-hs2-was-route-maps/ But as Ron said, it was already known. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Fair enough. I don't know how to move it, please can Mods help? I just hope they don't build the wretched thing Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Ah, milions (billions?) of extra cost just to placate the NIMBYS. The problem is that there seems to be no politicians with b*lls any more. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted August 28, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) Fair enough. I don't know how to move it, please can Mods help? You just need to report your post to the Mods Ed (I've now done this) and they will combine the topics. Edited August 28, 2012 by Kris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod6 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Fair enough. I don't know how to move it, please can Mods help? I just hope they don't build the wretched thing Topics merged. The Mods have no intention of building HS2 though. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted October 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2012 If it's to be believed, it's some good news. Seems pretty unequivocal to me. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-minister--we-will-fasttrack-hs2-high-speed-rail-8204527.html 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 ^^^ Hip, Hip - HOORAY!!!! At LAST!! Government ministers with the guts to get a major (job giving, economy stimulating??) project off the ground and do 'cross-party' work to ensure that it happens! (Apolitical, as this covers all parties!). Finally, the powers that be wake up and can see that RAIL has the answers to our future transport needs - I never thought I'd see it! Immensely cheered up, John E. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted October 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2012 I hope that this is true and that it does not turn into a huge political football. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 good stuff the sooner the better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted October 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 25, 2012 Compensation details for those directly in the path of the route have been published. Here is the Beeb's take on it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20078270 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted October 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 25, 2012 Compensation details for those directly in the path of the route have been published. Here is the Beeb's take on it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20078270 From distant memory the package is broadly similar to what was used on HS1 so in that sense it's a non news story that someone is strying to make something out of. I suspect that the packjage is a standard one used for all such projects. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) Why Euston, why not Stratford? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20922859#TWEET503797 (Rail expert says Stratford should be HS2 terminus) Edited January 6, 2013 by Coombe Barton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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