bike2steam Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 news of HS2 being approved. Surprise, common sense prevails over short-sightedness. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Lets wait and see if the money actualy comes forward,wait for the cost cutting to start its still a long way to go before anything happens, they have not done the enviromental search yet and that could throw up many problems .As for going north of Brum this will be many years off despite what is said now,the Scots will probably build their own line to the border first espialy if they gain independance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Mossley? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterR Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Hi, I see the the 'advert' for HS2 ( by HMG) has the Siemens design for the trains - what has happened top the twin deck british design? Too costly in the amount of (extra) earth to be meoved around perhaps? HMG is is usual failing to push home grown designs -- alas! Why do such things in the UK take so looong to produce? Its insteresting that the 'start' date is after the next General election (as has been mentioned before). Modern construction equipment can work quite fast. Edited January 10, 2012 by PeterR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCF stephen Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 So someone I know said something about a 70 metre vegetation free zone on the proposed HS2 link. I did not believe it and cannot find reference to it anywhere. I have found reference to a 25metre vegetation free zone on HS1 but it does not look at all bad. Can anyone clarify this for me? And thank goodness this has been approved. I was surprised there was no fast lines going through the Birmingham Interchange station as they have at Lille Europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hoorah, hoorah, hoorah! AT LAST!!! Only twenty years late but we've finally made it, thank god! Trouble is, it's too short (currently) and there's only the one route,....what about HS3 and HS4? Don't S. Wales and the west of England deserve high speed lines, too? I'll be dead & buried by the time this country gets the full HS network that we need (next century!). As for the naysayers, Ever heard of "Strategic Planning"?? Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmustu Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Why do such things in the UK take so looong to produce? Its insteresting that the 'start' date is after the next General election (as has been mentioned before). Modern construction equipment can work quite fast. It is going to take a while to start construction, etc, basically because of cross rail, there is not enough money in the pot to construct both lines at the same time. Just recieved an e-mail from HS2, outlining the scheme and what is going to happen next - 10 January 2012 GOVERNMENT ANNOUNCEMENT OF HS2 DECISION Justine Greening, Secretary of State for Transport, has today announced her decision to proceed with the plans to build a high speed rail line between London and the West Midlands and on to Manchester and Leeds. HS2 will improve capacity across the rail network, shorten journey times between Britain’s major population centres, boost the economy and create thousands of jobs. I am aware of the strong feelings for and against HS2 but the Government has now decided that the time is right to build a high speed network that connects our major cities, Heathrow and continental Europe. This will be one of the most significant transport projects ever undertaken in the UK. The first phase – from London to the West Midlands - will free up much needed space for other services on the West Coast Main Line, help drive economic benefits and enhance business productivity, while taking you from London to Birmingham in just 49 minutes. Now that ministers have decided to go ahead with the project our purpose changes significantly. Rather than just advising Government we will now move to promoting the project as well. Engineering, design and environmental work begins immediately in preparation for the hybrid Bill for the London to West Midlands section, and we will continue to develop proposals for the Manchester and Leeds legs. CHANGES TO THE PROPOSED LINE OF ROUTE The consultation that ran from February to July last year generated 54,909 responses and helped inform a series of refinements that have been made to the route. A package of alterations were recommended by HS2 Ltd and accepted by the Transport Secretary. (See key changes below) Compared to the consultation route there will be a 50 per cent increase in tunnel or green tunnel - totalling around 22.5 miles. In addition, around 56.5 of the 140 miles of the London to West Midlands line will be partially or totally hidden in cutting. In the Chilterns Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB) just over one and a half miles of the route will be visible. LINE OF ROUTE CHANGES Lichfield Increase the clearance of HS2 over the Trent and Mersey Canal near Lichfield. The change is required to keep the canal navigable and will slightly improve flood management. Warwickshire Move the route slightly further away from Middleton. The changes to the scheme in this area will result in fewer demolitions and less noise impacts. Mitigation of impacts on Balsall Common by moving the line further away from the community and lowering the height of the viaduct. A shallower cutting and longer green tunnel at Burton Green. Changes here include mitigating local impacts and reducing spoil generation, whilst still shielding the visual impact of the trains from the community. Avoid Kenilworth Golf Club, lower the line further into cutting through the National Agricultural Centre, and introduce a narrower cutting through South Cubbington Wood. This will help mitigate the impacts in this area and also avoid the need for the demolition of a Grade II listed farmhouse at Kenilworth. Introduce a longer bored tunnel at Long Itchington Wood. This will reduce land take, noise, landscape and visual impacts significantly. Northamptonshire Introduce a longer green tunnel past Chipping Warden and Aston le Walls, and curve the route to avoid a cluster of important heritage sites around Edgcote. These changes will provide additional mitigation for Aston le Walls, reduce setting impact on Grade I listed Edgcote House, avoid a Scheduled Monument (the Roman Villa site) and the possible location of the historic Edgcote Moor battlefield. Lower the alignment and introduce a green tunnel past Greatworth, and a short green tunnel at Turweston. These changes will help mitigate landscape, noise and visual impacts as well as remove the need for a viaduct. Buckinghamshire Move the route further from Twyford, taking it further away from Twyford and reducing noise. This will assist mitigating impacts on Twyford by making some land available between HS2 and the village that would allow for landscaped earthworks that will reduce noise and visual impacts. Lower the alignment past Aylesbury and Stoke Mandeville to reduce local impacts and eliminate the need for larger scale works to local roads and the Chiltern Railways line. Introduce a longer, now continuous tunnel from Little Missenden to the M25 through the Chilterns Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB) to reduce the need for deep cutting and to avoid a major aquifer. This will provide an overall benefit to landscape and features in the AONB. London Introduce a 2.75 mile (4.4 km) bored tunnel along the Northolt Corridor to avoid major works to the Chilterns Line and impacts on local communities in the Ruislip area. This will have the effect of removing all surface impacts apart from the need for an intervention shaft. NEXT STEPS Consultations The Department for Transport intends to introduce a hybrid Bill to Parliament by the end of 2013 to provide the necessary powers to construct and operate Phase 1 of the project. In order to achieve this timetable the following work will be carried out. Environmental Impact Assessment HS2 Ltd will develop the preliminary design of the route and the Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) to enable an Environmental Statement to be produced and consulted on in the Spring 2013. Safeguarding consultation Safeguarding boundaries will protect the land that will eventually be needed to build and operate HS2 from the development of new construction projects. We intend to draw up a provisional set of boundaries and hold a consultation on them also in Spring 2012, around the same time as the consultation on blight proposals. We will consult with the statutory bodies, including local highways authorities and planning authorities, which have a direct involvement in safeguarding issues. We will use their feedback to finalise the arrangements for safeguarding, which are likely to be in place in autumn 2012. Blight consultation In Spring 2012 HS2 Ltd will undertake a public consultation on proposals to help people who are close to and affected by the route. The consultation will last for 12 weeks and it will help to shape a package of compensation measures which we again expect to be in place for autumn 2012. Compensation The revised route announced today almost halves the numbers of dwellings at risk of land take and reduces by a third the number experiencing increased noise levels. To assist affected homeowners, communities and businesses a package of property measures are to be brought in over and above what affected homeowners are already entitled to under law. There will be a streamlined purchase scheme, a refreshed hardship scheme, support for those affected by construction, measures to reinforce confidence in properties above tunnels and a sale and rent scheme How will we work with local communities? We will work closely with local authorities, communities and stakeholders to develop the route, identifying potential impacts and exploring the best opportunities to mitigate them. As part of our ongoing engagement with local people and organisations on the London to West Midlands route we will set up community forums, planning forums and an environment forum. Community forums will enable communities to identify the most significant impacts in each area and contribute to our efforts to mitigate them. Planning forums will facilitate discussion of route design development, planning issues, environmental impacts and mitigation principles. They will involve officers from local authorities and other transport and planning bodies. An Environment forum will involve national representatives of environmental consultees and government departments. This group will assist the development of environmental policy for the development stage of HS2. Community Forums: We will establish community forums along the line of route from London to the West Midlands as one way of working with local communities. We will discuss with county, district and parish councils how best to create community forums that will work in each area. These forums will meet over the coming year. We hope that approximately 15-20 representatives of each local community will work with us to: inform the local community about HS2 proposals and consultations. highlight local priorities for mitigating the environmental impacts of the route. discuss potential mitigation options, such as screening views of the railway, managing noise and reinstating highways. identify possible community benefits. PHASE 2 – THE ‘Y’ NETWORK HS2 Ltd will also continue to work on proposals for the line of route from Birmingham to Leeds and Manchester - phase 2 of the project. We plan to submit recommendations for route and station options for phase 2, including a connection to Heathrow, to ministers by Spring 2012. We anticipate that a period of engagement and consultation will follow. Following consultation, it is expected that a decision will be made by ministers on the preferred route for phase 2 by December 2014. This timetable will be kept under review with a view to ensuring as swift a process as possible while recognising the need for extensive engagement. You can find all the recently published decision documents at: www.dft.gov.uk/topics/high-speed-rail You can also contact the public enquiry line for more information on 020 7944 4908 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted January 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2012 .....with all the environmental considerations taken into account there won't be much of a view from the trains - just like on some of the Shinkansen lines in Japan..... Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hi, I see the the 'advert' for HS2 ( by HMG) has the Siemens design for the trains - what has happened top the twin deck british design? Too costly in the amount of (extra) earth to be meoved around perhaps? HMG is is usual failing to push home grown designs -- alas! Why do such things in the UK take so looong to produce? Its insteresting that the 'start' date is after the next General election (as has been mentioned before). Modern construction equipment can work quite fast. And what double-deck British design might this be, and where might it be produced? The chances are that the train images are library material; if we were going for double-deck stock, it would probably be TGV-derived, and built by Alsthom, as Siemens haven't produced a DD one yet, and a DD would be unviable unless articulated anyway. Modern construction equipment may well be able to work quickly; the tricky bit will be integrating this with the existing railway at all the various interfaces. Shame my wife will probably be retiring before then, as she's got a bit of previous.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 More important to this country than the Olympics, this should of happened when france started its LGV. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Rebuild the old Great Central main line London-Rugby-Leicester-Sheffield-Woodhead-Manchester & add link branches to Coventry, Birmingham and Leeds / Bradford / York, Rebuild Nottingham Victoria "as was" - pull down the hideous shopping centre - (most of the shops are empty anyway !!) Far cheaper, more usefull, 150mph is quite fast enough. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Far cheaper Really? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 1, HS2 is designed to solve tomorrow's problems so is a rare piece of forward planning, That's the choker - it won't solve anything by itself, it could help lay down a framework by being part of an integrated transport policy, but I can't find any reference on how this project would re-invigorate the Midlands and Northern industrial heartlands which have been left to decline over the past decades. That it solves a capacity issue is more of a knee jerk reflex in isolation than any collaborative forward planning. the Scots will probably build their own line to the border first espialy if they gain independance. towards the Scandinavian borders ? More important to this country than the Olympics, this should of happened when france started its LGV. The French started the LGV program at the same time as investment in nuclear energy - this was a result of either first or second oil crisis in the the early 70s. The French have been exporting their technology experience in both fields for quite a few years now. It would appear that even if gvt approval has been given, the whole project is subject to one or more judicial reviews which will add, given the process, many months to the project timeline. The thing that grates about this moving forwards will be based on procedural/legal technicalities. An upfront business case with more meat on the bone would have made a positive impact on the whole project that is now reduced to a shambolic mess... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher125 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) There is no doubt that the railway network needs to be improved for the future but HS2 is not the way forward. But neither is a further upgrade to the WCML, there are limits to how much you can 'upgrade' a railway. There are underused railways from London to the north and midlands ie Marylebone to Birmingham and the MML to Leeds. These railways could and should be 'upgraded' to perform the function, there is already enough land for four tracks on both these to allow the necessary works to be made for 125-140mph running. That simply isnt true. To quadruple the Chiltern Mainline and upgrade the MML to provide even a fraction of the capacity that HS2 provides (but none of the journey time benefits) would still cost many, many billions but with none of the extra benefits a HSL provides. There are two reports anyone who thinks there is an 'alternative' should read - http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/hs2-strategic-alternatives-study-update/hs2-strategic-alternatives-study-update.pdf Atkin's strategic alternatives study http://assets.dft.go...lternatives.pdf Network Rail's recently published study into the strategic alternatives Both make quite clear there is no alternative to HS2 that can deliver anything like the same benefits. Another pair of lines are needed, and by far the best economic case for providing that is to build them on a new alignment as a high speed line. Chris Edited January 10, 2012 by Christopher125 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Rebuild the old Great Central main line London-Rugby-Leicester-Sheffield-Woodhead-Manchester & add link branches to Coventry, Birmingham and Leeds / Bradford / York, Rebuild Nottingham Victoria "as was" - pull down the hideous shopping centre - (most of the shops are empty anyway !!) Far cheaper, more usefull, 150mph is quite fast enough. Brit15 Good plan, just a bit awkward having to switch to steam haulage for that bit in Leicestershire. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Christian Woolmar on Granada reports - 2 minutes ago "I am afraid HS2 will tie up ALL major rail investment for the next 20 years on just one route corridor" If this is the case, god help us as petrol passes the £2 / litre point in the near future. And yes, reinstating the GC line would be far cheaper as most of the route is still there. The steam GC bit could be either paralled, or "taken over" - lets see - rebiuld the Leicester Belgrave Rd line & M&GN line for cross country steam / local use. Would upset a few though !!!!!!!!!!!! Brit15 Edited January 10, 2012 by APOLLO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 One snippet from the news... Flybe shares fell by X amount on the news of HS2 being approved. Just been on our local news - it's nothing to do with HS2, they have just issued a profits warning.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 20 years to reach Leeds/Bradford on C5 News. WTF, the French and Germans built their entire HS network in less time than that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagrizz Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Listening to 5 live this evening, one BBC reporter said that the last main line built in Britain was the Grand Central which went bust and is now closed. Where do they get them from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 And yes, reinstating the GC line would be far cheaper as most of the route is still there. Where's your figures to back that up? Using the route where it's disused and in open countryside might be cheaper, but is it really going to be cheaper when you're building two new tracks through West London and assorted Chiltern towns (and demolishing some of the most expensive real estate in the country) - is it going to be cheaper building a new route on the old alignment through the various towns and cities where it's been obliterated by development? Is your brand new line through open countryside from Rugby to Birmingham and your new line from Sheffield to Leeds going to be cheaper per mile than HS2? Why? And the huge numbers of folk that will directly inconvenience because you're putting a high speed line through the middle of housing estates and shopping centres - are they going to say 'well at least it's not 200mph so we won't challenge it'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 ....and where do your trains go when they get to London? How many platforms do you need to add to Marylebone to handle a high speed line terminating trains at 3 minute intervals...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Think the northern Y should be built first - that way the moaning southerners will be wanting it not objecting to it. Also it would give time to rethink the London end and connect HS2 to HS1, a bit silly having separate terminal. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher125 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Christian Woolmar on Granada reports - 2 minutes ago "I am afraid HS2 will tie up ALL major rail investment for the next 20 years on just one route corridor" If this is the case, god help us as petrol passes the £2 / litre point in the near future. And yes, reinstating the GC line would be far cheaper as most of the route is still there. The steam GC bit could be either paralled, or "taken over" - lets see - rebiuld the Leicester Belgrave Rd line & M&GN line for cross country steam / local use. Would upset a few though !!!!!!!!!!!! Brit15 Nonsense. HS2 will cost a similar amount per year to what we are currently spending on Crossrail during a recession - is that tieing up all rail investment during its construction? Rebuilding the GCR would be a completely pointless exercise - if that transport corridor needs more capacity, it will always be cheaper to upgrade the MML. It serves the same principal destinations but its formation has been built on and around, and often removed, in far too many places to be economic - being 'cheaper' than HS2 is a pointless argument if doesnt pay for itself, let alone produce the wider benefits for north-south travel times that HS2 would. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I am currently entertaining my self with visions of protesting barristers, corporate executives and hedge fund managers chained to static objects and having running battles with the police in the path of the route... Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) ....and where do your trains go when they get to London? How many platforms do you need to add to Marylebone to handle a high speed line terminating trains at 3 minute intervals...? And why would you want to terminate at Marylebone - Euston really is the only choice in terms of a linked up transport policy as it allows for the easy transfer to Eurostar and europe. Edit - obviously there needs to be some form of travelator to make things even easier for the public. Edited January 10, 2012 by Kris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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