Priory Road - North East Essex in BR days

[Izzy]

14 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

As I think I have another bag of these lurking somewhere I think WSL in this case might be for rather a long time. The etch got somewhat supersede by first the NGS plastic kit and then the Farish RTR version. Sadly none of the three options came with with either opening doors or plastic horse. 

 

Chris

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235302016923?_ul=GB&abcId=9300867&campaignid=17218284410&chn=ps&device=c&googleloc=1006622&itemid=235302016923&merchantid=115018954&mkcid=2&mkevt=1&mkgroupid=142217514411&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkscid=101&mktype=pla&norover=1&poi=&rlsatarget=pla-1405537545018&targetid=1405537545018

 

Originally I had hoped to have a full set of the BR Mk1 2mm coaches and didn’t appreciate until it was too late that they would eventually run out. Nice as the N gauge Farish stuff is the size difference is noticeable at times. Having as much 2mm stock as possible was just a goal I set myself so I’m grateful you produced them in the first place. It is frustrating at times when kits and scratch builds get overtaken by RTR even if the scale is slightly different, which then becomes the only crumbs of comfort you have left. My Cowans Sheldon 6/10T hand crane is one such given all the time and effort involved. I never imagined a RTR version would appear.

 

13 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Don't paint it....put it in a frame...bloody lovely all in 2mm great work 

 

Thanks. Funny how nice shiny objects look more appealing! I always feel very apprehensive when I have to paint metal stock because I often feel it won’t look as good. Plastic on the other hand never looks finished until it gets a coat. I’m getting quite a few models that need painting so I guess one day in the spring I will have to bite the bullet…

 

Bob

[Chris Higgs]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Originally I had hoped to have a full set of the BR Mk1 2mm coaches and didn’t appreciate until it was too late that they would eventually run out.

 

Bob

 

Things only become a permanent shop item if people are buying them. 

 

If you really still want some of these I have a very few left, would have to get some ends etched though.

 

Chris

 

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

Things only become a permanent shop item if people are buying them. 

 

If you really still want some of these I have a very few left, would have to get some ends etched though.

 

Chris

 

Thanks Chris, that’s kind of you, but having now built the 2mm Thompson NC set I realised that they suit the small layouts I am restricted to making better being that much shorter and go nicely with the 2mm steam I am gathering together, N7, J15, J69, L1, for local workings so the Farish Mk1’s I have will probably get moved on and not be replaced.

 

Bob

[bécasse]

Remembering the real things, there was something very atmospheric about those Thompson-era shortie non-corridor carriages and they looked good in BR steam-era livery whether it was crimson or maroon. Somehow the BR suburban carriages just didn't have the same atmosphere, even the rather esoteric versions that prowled around the southern parts of the Eastern Region.

[1965Nick]

I would be interested in more BR mark 1 kits if they were available. Especially the ends and carcass. 

[Izzy]

19 hours ago, bécasse said:

Remembering the real things, there was something very atmospheric about those Thompson-era shortie non-corridor carriages and they looked good in BR steam-era livery whether it was crimson or maroon. Somehow the BR suburban carriages just didn't have the same atmosphere, even the rather esoteric versions that prowled around the southern parts of the Eastern Region.

Starting out covering the green diesel era when local services were DMU based including such as Colchester to Cambridge via the Stour/Colne Valley I found that BR Mk1’s were on the remaining loco hauled ones at this time so that’s what I went for. It wasn’t until I decided to also cover the last steam days that I realised that around the area the local services such as mentioned mostly used Thompson NC up to around 1959 when the DMU’s arrived. 
 

I had assumed that most of these would have used Gresleys so it was interesting to trawl through photo albums to find that many of these had gone by these mid-50’s times and replaced by the Thompsons. It was something that hadn’t really fully registered.

 

Bob

Edited December 16, 2023 by Izzy

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Starting out covering the green diesel era when local services were DMU based including such as Colchester to Cambridge via the Stour/Colne Valley I found that BR Mk1’s were on the remaining loco hauled ones at this time so that’s what I went for. It wasn’t until I decided to also cover the last steam days that I realised that around the area the local services such as mentioned mostly used Thompson NC up to around 1959 when the DMU’s arrived. 
 

I had assumed that most of these would have used Gresleys so it was interesting to trawl through photo albums to find that many of these had gone by these mid-50’s times and replaced by the Thompsons. It was something that hadn’t really fully registered.

 

Bob

Hi Bob

 

Are you sure they are all Thompsons? I ask because the GE section had quite a few Gresley steel bodied non gangway coaches. Those without toilets are hard to distinguish between each other. 

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Bob

 

Are you sure they are all Thompsons? I ask because the GE section had quite a few Gresley steel bodied non gangway coaches. Those without toilets are hard to distinguish between each other. 

Hi Clive,

TBH not now you mention it as that’s another aspect I wasn’t aware of. The later build Thompsons I know can be spotted by the rounded corner windows but I didn’t consider the steel Gresleys might be around in considerable numbers, I just took it they were Thompsons. So I’m grateful you say they are hard to tell apart.

 

Bob

[Chris Higgs]

4 hours ago, Izzy said:

Hi Clive,

TBH not now you mention it as that’s another aspect I wasn’t aware of. The later build Thompsons I know can be spotted by the rounded corner windows but I didn’t consider the steel Gresleys might be around in considerable numbers, I just took it they were Thompsons. So I’m grateful you say they are hard to tell apart.

 

Bob

 

The earliest Thompson lots also had square cornered windows. The end profile is one way to tell, the Thompsons sloped in quite significantly more then the Gresleys. 

 

Chris

Edited December 16, 2023 by Chris Higgs

[Chris Higgs]

On 16/12/2023 at 16:37, Chris Higgs said:

 

The earliest Thompson lots also had square cornered windows. The end profile is one way to tell, the Thompsons sloped in quite significantly more then the Gresleys. 

 

Chris

 

Taking a closer look at the Steel Gresleys, the only non-articulated types were Full third, Brake Third(4 compartment) and Composite Lavatory. That has a rectangular toilet windowm, the brake third has a recessed baggage section. So only the full third is difficult to tell apart from a Thompson. 

[Izzy]

30 minutes ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

Taking a closer look at the Steel Gresleys, the only non-articulated types were Full third, Brake Third(4 compartment) and Composite Lavatory. That has a rectangular toilet windowm, the brake third has a recessed baggage section. So only the full third is difficult to tell apart from a Thompson. 

 

Thanks Chris, that's very helpful. Looking at the photos I've studied of around my local area it seems that perhaps Thompson's were the main steel bodied type. That's lucky!

 

Bob

[Izzy]

A class 16 pt 6

 

The bogies are now done. They look a bit better to my mind and are much stronger, the metal outer portion superglued to the inner keeper section.

 

 

 

 

With the fuel tank also done and stuffed with lead I have managed to add enough lead weight in total so the loco weighs almost exactly the same as the class 15, 52gms. This is just 4gms less than the larger Farish class 20 so I am quite pleased with this result.

 

 

The loco is thus finished apart from making some square base oval buffers on the lathe which I can’t get out at the moment. Making the cab interior and glazing will be left until after painting. So the 16 now joins the painting queue.

 

Not being able to use the lathe at present also means I can’t move on with the J15 so a start has been made on another loco build that’s been in preparation for a while. The simple chassis is up and running and just needs the brakes adding, hangers, pull rods etc. I've gone for a fixed axle one following my experience with the Royal Scot regarding the combination using stay-alive. 

 

 

I’ll reveal what it is meant to be when I’ve made the basic body although I would think many could guess but might be wrong as I haven’t decided yet myself……..

 

Bob

[Izzy]

[bradfordbuffer]

28 minutes ago, Izzy said:

What? No trains on Christmas day!

Even looks good with no stock on

[yaxxbarl]

On 19/12/2023 at 09:18, Izzy said:

A class 16 pt 6

 

The bogies are now done. They look a bit better to my mind and are much stronger, the metal outer portion superglued to the inner keeper section.

 

 

 

 

With the fuel tank also done and stuffed with lead I have managed to add enough lead weight in total so the loco weighs almost exactly the same as the class 15, 52gms. This is just 4gms less than the larger Farish class 20 so I am quite pleased with this result.

 

 

The loco is thus finished apart from making some square base oval buffers on the lathe which I can’t get out at the moment. Making the cab interior and glazing will be left until after painting. So the 16 now joins the painting queue.

 

Not being able to use the lathe at present also means I can’t move on with the J15 so a start has been made on another loco build that’s been in preparation for a while. The simple chassis is up and running and just needs the brakes adding, hangers, pull rods etc. I've gone for a fixed axle one following my experience with the Royal Scot regarding the combination using stay-alive. 

 

 

I’ll reveal what it is meant to be when I’ve made the basic body although I would think many could guess but might be wrong as I haven’t decided yet myself……..

 

Bob

Bob,

 

Yes - it's too early to 'Jump the Buck' on this one as there's just so many possibilities - from what I remember Iain Rice took at least two issues of MRJ to go through all the variants...

 

Cheers,

 

John

[Izzy]

3 hours ago, yaxxbarl said:

Bob,

 

Yes - it's too early to 'Jump the Buck' on this one as there's just so many possibilities - from what I remember Iain Rice took at least two issues of MRJ to go through all the variants...

 

Cheers,

 

John

Oh yes John, it can be a bit of a minefield even if you do your homework….  Actually it’s a toss up between the penultimate Buck, the S56 (J69/1) or the final C72 (J68) version. For various reasons it will probably be the former.

 

Bob

 

[Izzy]

The J69/1 chassis has been finished and the basic bodywork made. At this stage I would guess most DC users thoughts would turn to where as much weight could be added to aid traction and current collection, in the bunker, smokebox, and side tanks. As a DCC user this aspect is made much more difficult with the need to find space for a decoder and stay-alive pack. To try and get an idea of how much was needed I weighed the loco as it stood, the chassis and the brass body bits, and it came out at 14gms. By comparision my Hunslet 05 and Farish 03/4's were about 32gms each, so around 20gms extra was required to get decent haulage, well match them at least. 

 

 

Not wishing to loose space for weight anywhere else it seems trying to squeeze them into the bottom of the cab below door height is what I'm going for. So they aren't too visible. That small enough decoders are available to attempt this is handy. Without the Zimo MX615's I'm not sure what I would do. A three pack of 16v 220uF tantalums is the maximum I can fit anywhere. Better than nothing.  I'm being a bit picky here, in wanting my cake and eating it, as I'm trying to workout how they can be added to the chassis without the body being fitted. That it will just fit over with perhaps a false cab interior sitting on top with crew. The cab roof will as usual be a push fit so this can be fitted/removed as necessary (with a slab of lead underneath it). We'll see.

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

[Nick Mitchell]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

A three pack of 16v 220uF tantalums is the maximum I can fit anywhere. Better than nothing.

 

Hi @Izzy (and anyone else interested), I found some 16v 470uF tantalum capacitors on eBay recently in the same case size as the ones you're using.

You might get away with a single one of these.

Happy Christmas,

Nick

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394539153359

 

[EasternO]

I'm a novice at DCC, but wouldn't you only need approx 0.5-1 second of 1A capacitor power? That would depend on track dead spots like insulated frogs, etc.

[Izzy]

3 hours ago, Nick Mitchell said:

 

Hi @Izzy (and anyone else interested), I found some 16v 470uF tantalum capacitors on eBay recently in the same case size as the ones you're using.

You might get away with a single one of these.

Happy Christmas,

Nick

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394539153359

 

 

Thanks Nick, that looks a good find. I have looked at the single 470uF tantalums around from such as Youchoos as a one off job. 

 

1 hour ago, EasternO said:

I'm a novice at DCC, but wouldn't you only need approx 0.5-1 second of 1A capacitor power? That would depend on track dead spots like insulated frogs, etc.

 

The amount of storage capacity you need for that far exceeds the space available, many thousands of uF. I generally use between 660-880uF and this is just enough to get a loco over a spec of dirt, a fraction of a second, a wheel spoke movement on average at slow speed. Just enough to avoid stutter or loss of movement.  I wouldn't actually want the kind of run-on some wish to have as dead crossings/frogs don't feature on 2FS trackwork thankfully and the thought of large amounts of electrical capacitance that need discharge would worry me. 

 

Bob

[queensquare]

5 hours ago, Nick Mitchell said:

 

Hi @Izzy (and anyone else interested), I found some 16v 470uF tantalum capacitors on eBay recently in the same case size as the ones you're using.

You might get away with a single one of these.

Happy Christmas,

Nick

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394539153359

 

Thanks for the link Nick. I’ve only put stay alive in two locos so far but both have used 2 x 470uF tantalum’s and the transformation in running is like night and day - even though both already ran well. It’s the eradication of the occasional slight hesitation that is so satisfying.

it will be planned into all new builds and I will also be retro fitting where possible. 

 

Jerry

 

 

[Izzy]

A class 16 pt 7

 

With the kind assistance of my ever helpful wife the Sieg baby lathe is now on the workbench so the buffers have been made and fitted. Producing oval heads is a question of turning large round heads and then filing them to final shape for me. But this means much larger stock needs using than for the rest of the body. That square bases were also needed just added to the fun. Originally when it came to the buffers I thought that perhaps I could get away with using the association LMS buffers with square bases and 18” heads to save me work but the heads proved too small. I know it probably seems daft to some but the 3”/0.5mm head size difference does show as the width of the oval ones was around 21”.

 

Then I found some oval retractable coach buffers I had from BHE with the right size heads. With quite thin shanks that could be filed down to just 0.8mm I got the idea to machine off the LMS buffer heads, drill the bodies 0.8mm, and fit the oval heads. Result.

 

 

Once fitted I did think that perhaps I’d got the measurements wrong as they look rather long but compared with the drawing and photos it turns out they weren’t. Combined with the short bogie wheelbase this probably explains why oval heads were needed.

 

So just painting in the spring now. In common with the class 15 it will be in the original condition plain green without any yellow panels or ends.

 

Bob

[Izzy]

 

With the lathe finally out I've been getting on with all the work that has built up. Bits for three steam locos. 

 

I started off with the smokebox doors in two sizes. The hole in the middle is 0.5mm for the handles. Strapping, hinges  etc. all to be added after of course. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then the Ross Pop valves. The tool is like a miniature parting off and also 0.5mm wide.

 

 

Needing 6 I made a dozen to allow for them pinging off into the ether at some stage. 

 

 

Today has been spent fly cutting the bases for the chimneys and domes. Recently I obtained this vertical slide to help with this. Previously I bodged up a way of clamping the work onto the cross slide but it wasn't easily adjustable. I know some just file the bases but I found that really hard work and I couldn't get them satisfactory no matter how I tried. Just lacking the skill I guess. 

 

 

 

Next job will be to shape them.

 

 

With the N7 I made three chimneys and two domes before getting ones I was happy with. I haven't cut any spare blanks so I'm going to have to get them right first time.  That should be fun........

 

Bob

[Izzy]

The chimneys and domes have now been made. The blanks were drilled 1.5mm for mounting on a short length of steel, soldered on, 1.5mm axle steel actually, brass rod not being resistant enough to side forces of the kind generated by the tooling pressure. Even so very light cuts are needed. The tool used is on the other end of the tiny parting off one, just shaped slightly differently to rough out curved corners. The tool is 1/4" HSS originally ground for larger profiles and used because it was spare and already ground down quite a bit. 1/8" round HSS would be easier to grind to size if starting with blank tooling, I've got plenty of both sizes, many ground as needed for particular jobs and re-used as required.

 

 

In addition to the tool needle files were used to shape them. I have gravers but find general needle files easy to use. I'm a crude machine worker most of the time. A mix of being mostly self taught along with advice by my late Father-in-law, an engineer and toolmaker of high regard, who encouraged all his staff to engage in hand work whenever possible to retain and hone basic skills. (He finished his working life as the works director of one of Britains few remaining Lloyds No1 registered boilermakers).

 

The bases were hand finished using round files.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the domes flat files shaped the basic outside curvature. 

 

 

They seem to be acceptable to me, I think I've got the basic shapes right. On the left are the N7 rejects. Then Chimney and dome for the L1 and those for the J15 and J69. 

 

Now it's on to little bits like brake standard, water filler etc. Whistles will be hand done as they are just too small, 0.5mm at best. I've tried in the lathe, but given up. 

 

Bob

[queensquare]

4 hours ago, Izzy said:

The chimneys and domes have now been made. The blanks were drilled 1.5mm for mounting on a short length of steel, soldered on, 1.5mm axle steel actually, brass rod not being resistant enough to side forces of the kind generated by the tooling pressure. Even so very light cuts are needed. The tool used is on the other end of the tiny parting off one, just shaped slightly differently to rough out curved corners. The tool is 1/4" HSS originally ground for larger profiles and used because it was spare and already ground down quite a bit. 1/8" round HSS would be easier to grind to size if starting with blank tooling, I've got plenty of both sizes, many ground as needed for particular jobs and re-used as required.

 

 

In addition to the tool needle files were used to shape them. I have gravers but find general needle files easy to use. I'm a crude machine worker most of the time. A mix of being mostly self taught along with advice by my late Father-in-law, an engineer and toolmaker of high regard, who encouraged all his staff to engage in hand work whenever possible to retain and hone basic skills. (He finished his working life as the works director of one of Britains few remaining Lloyds No1 registered boilermakers).

 

The bases were hand finished using round files.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the domes flat files shaped the basic outside curvature. 

 

 

They seem to be acceptable to me, I think I've got the basic shapes right. On the left are the N7 rejects. Then Chimney and dome for the L1 and those for the J15 and J69. 

 

Now it's on to little bits like brake standard, water filler etc. Whistles will be hand done as they are just too small, 0.5mm at best. I've tried in the lathe, but given up. 

 

Bob

Great  work Bob. I’d be interested in how you make your whistles, I always have trouble with these - I get close then they ping off, never to be seen again!

 

Jerry