Priory Road - North East Essex in BR days

[Flying Pig]

19 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Thanks all for the comments, much appreciated. 

 

Before I load another part of the sequence has anybody spotted something unusual in a couple of the photos? I've only just seen it myself, but it does illustrate that following prototype practice can have it's benefits. No prizes I'm afraid.

 

Bob

 

The pair of vans has rolled through the trap on the cement siding and the latter has done its stuff and saved the departing parcels train from disaster.

[Izzy]

13 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

The pair of vans has rolled through the trap on the cement siding and the latter has done its stuff and saved the departing parcels train from disaster.

 

Well spotted. I must have caused them to move when taking the shots and then pushed them back into position without realising what had actually taken place.

[Izzy]

 

The BR Blue era running sequence Pt 2

 

The next arrival is the return 309 EMU working from North. This stays as usual just

as long as is needed for the driver cab change before it’s on it’s way to Walton.

 

 

 

 

 

As it passes out of sight under the bridge the morning goods trip appears on the other line. This is hauled as is usually the case by a CL08 and is composed of a few XP rated vans and a brake.

 

 

 

As there are a few vans already in the siding to be taken away a bit of extra shunting will take place. So the loco runs around the train and pushes the stock back towards the parcels platform.

 

 

 

 

 

Then goes into the siding and retrieves the wagons there,

 

 

 

 

 

 

couples them up to those in the platform road,

 

 

pulls the whole train forward, reverses it and places the arriving wagons into the siding, then draws the rest forward again, finally reversing the outgoing stock back into the platform road so it sits behind the advanced starter.

 

 

 

 

However it’s shunting duties aren’t finished quite yet as we will now see.

 

Into the main platform now rolls the late morning parcels trip from North.

 

 

 

Again the loco is the skinhead CL31, it’s diagram today covering both these short parcel workings. The NPCS seen here, two GUV’s and a CCT, carry express parcels branding. These are more Farish again needing weathering, they look far too clean!

 

With a FB on the end the length of the train is too much to run-round in one go given the short length of the loop. The choices are that it would have to be done in two separate chunks or, as in this case, use another loco to draw the stock back and allow the train loco to use the release crossover. This is what the working diagram has been arranged to allow for, should this parcels working have this many vehicles, which varies according to demand.

 

So this is now what the CL08 does. It leaves it’s wagons where they are, couples up to the NPCS, and draws it backwards along the branch.

 

 

 

This releases the CL31 which uses the crossover and buffers/couples up to the goods stock which it has to push along the track to clear the crossover. It then draws back into the platform road but uncoupling and leaving the wagons/brake where they were originally.

 

 

 

Whilst it does this the CL08 pushes the NPCS back into the main platform.

 

 

 

The CL08 then returns to it’s goods train, and when given the road, heads back to North.

 

 

 

Because the parcels stock is too long for the shorter parcels platform where most facilities exist for parcels work, while the train sits in the main road the FB is quickly unloaded of any goods it has. The CL31 now goes and couples up to the train, and then transfers it to the parcels platform for the unloading of the other vehicles.

 

 

 

                              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

[Wotan]

I’ve really enjoyed reading and seeing the photos Bob , what a lovely model and stock - food for thought and a real inspiration 

best wishss

Michael 

[Izzy]

The BR Blue era running sequence Pt 3

 

At this stage another of the 309 EMU services from Walton arrives. After the normal amount of waiting time this proceeds off to North.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There now arrives from North the cement working. This is an ‘as required’ diagram, so when it runs varies. Today is one of those days it does. Another CL31 is in charge, this time in the standard Blue livery and with headcode boxes. There is a PVV van along with three Metalair PVA’s. The PVV as mentioned in the Green era sequence was a scratchbuild job.

 

 

With the NPCS stock now empty and/or re-loaded the parcels train leaves for North. With the cement needing access to the release crossover/loop/cement siding nothing could happen until it left the station.

 

 

 

As there are wagons in the siding needing removal and taking back to North, as with the earlier goods train a bit more shunting is required. The loco backs the train up, the runs across to the siding, collects the wagons in it and draws them out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As luck would have it by closing right up to the buffers they clear the slip and can be pushed back along the parcels road. This it does past the entrance crossover up to the bridge.

After uncoupling it then goes back and buffers up to it’s train which it then pushes up to the other wagons.

 

 

 

 

 

With them all coupled it carries on pushing them past the crossover, then draws them all back along the parcels road.

 

 

Next it takes the arrival wagons and using the headshunt places them in the cement siding.

 

 

 

Finally it runs back to the outgoing stock, pulls it back to the clearance point in the loop, and runs around them, ending up behind the advance starter to await exiting the station.

 

 

 

 

 

 

When the Cravens 105 has arrives from North with a Sudbury working it is given the road to leave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The DMU this time comes to rest as close to the buffers as allowed, because after it’s passengers have all left it performs the movement seen before of using the release crossover to reach the parcels platform where it sits awaiting it last journey of the day, a shuttle service one back to North.

 

 

However it has to wait until the last 309 EMU working from North appears. This both arrives and departs before the 105 eventually leaves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This ends the sequence.

 

I hope both it and the Green one have provided a few ideas on what can be done with a fairly small and simple layout in 2mm/2FS. There is quite a lot of flexibility to be able to alter things to suit what I have, or would like to give a run and I’ll make a few comments in a following post.

 

Bob

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Izzy

[Richard Hall]

Looks just as lovely in blue as in green.  As you say, a good example of how you can still get plenty of operational interest into a small space.  I have been carrying around an idea in my head for several years, for an inner London small terminus vaguely inspired by the Kings Cross suburban platforms, and set around 1970.  Blue 57' non-corridor stock, Cravens and Derby DMUs, bit of parcels traffic and maybe a through freight line running along the back for some inter-yard trip workings to add variety.  Soot, decay, cigarette adverts and that feeling that hung over North London through the 1970s, that it had never recovered properly from the war. The DJM "Baby Deltic" would have been perfect, pity that never happened.  Someone should build it even if I don't.

 

Richard

[Izzy]

 

It was quite interesting to discover what level of stock was required to cover these two sequences.

 

For the Green era it consists of one EMU, two DMU’s, and four diesels if you wish to use different ones on each train and have them available. The two parcel trains could use the same stock if needed, or the same loco as with the blue era. Perhaps not surprisingly the amount of wagons required is quite minimal, far less than most people would I think expect or have. This is certainly the case for me.

 

You will notice that less stock is needed for the Blue era. Just one EMU and DMU, and three diesels as shown, although four could be used as with the Green. Again the parcels and wagon stock are about the same. I don’t have enough of the correct locos to run different ones with each train for this era which is why the Green CL31 appears twice. I do have both a Blue Farish CL20 and CL24 which I use as they are nice locos in themselves. However, neither class was used much if at all in East Anglia in this time period so I have portrayed this era without using them. The CL24’s were all moved away at the end of the Green era, while the CL20’s were only occasionally seen at the odd time. Indeed the only diesel locos generally used were a few 03 along with 08/31/37/47. However, although I have had examples of the latter two in green in the past – the latest DCC ready versions, I found them a bit too big for a small layout of PR’s size where the smaller Bo-Bo types and the 31’s seem more suited, so they were moved on.

 

One aspect that jarrs a bit when running the later Blue period is the railway vehicles and crane in the early maroon/cream livery. I should really have made two different sets and changed them around as needed. There’s always things you could have done better isn’t there.

 

Anyway I hope these series of shots help give people with layouts of their own ideas on how they might be used and run.

 

Bob

 

[1965Nick]

34 minutes ago, Richard Hall said:

Looks just as lovely in blue as in green.  As you say, a good example of how you can still get plenty of operational interest into a small space.  I have been carrying around an idea in my head for several years, for an inner London small terminus vaguely inspired by the Kings Cross suburban platforms, and set around 1970.  Blue 57' non-corridor stock, Cravens and Derby DMUs, bit of parcels traffic and maybe a through freight line running along the back for some inter-yard trip workings to add variety.  Soot, decay, cigarette adverts and that feeling that hung over North London through the 1970s, that it had never recovered properly from the war. The DJM "Baby Deltic" would have been perfect, pity that never happened.  Someone should build it even if I don't.

 

Richard

That’s very much the plan I have with a run off into a tunnel onto the widened lines. I have quite a few 57 foot Mark 1 suburbans nearing completion.

[sb67]

16 hours ago, Richard Hall said:

Looks just as lovely in blue as in green.  As you say, a good example of how you can still get plenty of operational interest into a small space.  I have been carrying around an idea in my head for several years, for an inner London small terminus vaguely inspired by the Kings Cross suburban platforms, and set around 1970.  Blue 57' non-corridor stock, Cravens and Derby DMUs, bit of parcels traffic and maybe a through freight line running along the back for some inter-yard trip workings to add variety.  Soot, decay, cigarette adverts and that feeling that hung over North London through the 1970s, that it had never recovered properly from the war. The DJM "Baby Deltic" would have been perfect, pity that never happened.  Someone should build it even if I don't.

 

Richard

 

Sounds like a very nice idea Richard! I've had several thoughts about the old Blackwall station in the heart of Docklands. 

 

Love the blue era photo's @Izzy It's good to see an operating sequence too , thanks for sharing.  

[John57sharp]

I’ve just caught up with the sequence posts, really really really inspiring and useful, and informative and very good indeed. Yes I like them! Thanks Bob for taking the time to share your layout in such detail. Brilliant.

 

John

[Izzy]

Priory Road – Weathering some rolling stock

 

 

The Blue era sequence shots of the cement wagons and NPCS in their pristine shiny finish has spurred me into getting around to weathering/toning them down. Previously every time I got them out I thought ‘I must get around to that’, but then one thing or another would mean they went back into the stock trays the same as they came out.

 

I’ve actually got three small sets of cement wagons to use for the different eras and time periods. The Presflos which first arrived in early BR days, some later barrel and depressed barrel types which were produced in the early 1970’s, and the Metalair ones made in 1985/6, the last 4-wheel type Blue Circle acquired, new wagons being larger bogie vehicles from then on. This wasn’t something particularly planned but just developed piecemeal as I found them for sale at reasonable prices, the Presflos for both the green and blue eras, the others just suitable for the blue. All these are Farish, the Presflo and Metalair being quite recent tooling and to a high standard while the others were what could be described as more basic although cheaper to obtain. All were bought quite some time ago now.

 

The Presflos have been weathered, or should I say toned down, but not the others. This mainly occurred because I re-built the ‘middle-order’ ones to improve their looks – there was a noticeable disparity between the wagon barrels and their end caps – and then gave them a basic coat with Halfords grey primer. Not sure whether or not to give them a top coat I put them aside, then generated some info panel transfers, (they didn’t have any Blue circle branding), decided they would do as they were, stuck on the transfers, but got no further. Storing all these later type wagons together meant the Metalairs also stayed as bought, although all received 2FS wheels and DG’s.

 

Study of photos of all these wagons revealed that while the Presflos gained an overall look of cement dust coated all over them, so were fairly easy to tone down in a very basic way using Rowney white pastel sticks dusted over/brushed on/off with a stiff brush, the others all being grey seemed to have greater variation with a brownish look in certain places, mostly the ends. So while I used white on their underframes, black & brown were also used on the bodies in various mixes, again mainly applied with a stiff brush and worked in or scrubbed off but some then being then worked on with a wet brush to try and produce some variation.

 

 

 

 

 

I’m not sure it worked, or made a noticeable difference from normal viewing distance, (I marvel at the skills some have with weathering). However at the end of the day at least they don’t now look as if they have just left the wagon works after building.

 

The NPCS, indeed all my Blue Era coaching stock was also done while as they say, the iron was hot, and here brown was the main colour used. Here are a couple of before/after comparison shots.

 

 

 

The sides of the Blue/Grey livery coaches were only given the lightest of touches since shots usually show the sides reasonably clean from going through the washers while beneath them the underframes and bogies could get quite dirty brown. A lot of stock, diesels, DMU/EMU etc. seemed to get like this at times, quite clean bodies, filthy bogies and underframes.

 

 

 

 

The overall result seems reasonable and at least they don’t stand out like a sore thumb any more either.

 

Bob

[bradfordbuffer]

1 minute ago, Izzy said:

Priory Road – Weathering some rolling stock

 

 

The Blue era sequence shots of the cement wagons and NPCS in their pristine shiny finish has spurred me into getting around to weathering/toning them down. Previously every time I got them out I thought ‘I must get around to that’, but then one thing or another would mean they went back into the stock trays the same as they came out.

 

I’ve actually got three small sets of cement wagons to use for the different eras and time periods. The Presflos which first arrived in early BR days, some later barrel and depressed barrel types which were produced in the early 1970’s, and the Metalair ones made in 1985/6, the last 4-wheel type Blue Circle acquired, new wagons being larger bogie vehicles from then on. This wasn’t something particularly planned but just developed piecemeal as I found them for sale at reasonable prices, the Presflos for both the green and blue eras, the others just suitable for the blue. All these are Farish, the Presflo and Metalair being quite recent tooling and to a high standard while the others were what could be described as more basic although cheaper to obtain. All were bought quite some time ago now.

 

The Presflos have been weathered, or should I say toned down, but not the others. This mainly occurred because I re-built the ‘middle-order’ ones to improve their looks – there was a noticeable disparity between the wagon barrels and their end caps – and then gave them a basic coat with Halfords grey primer. Not sure whether or not to give them a top coat I put them aside, then generated some info panel transfers, (they didn’t have any Blue circle branding), decided they would do as they were, stuck on the transfers, but got no further. Storing all these later type wagons together meant the Metalairs also stayed as bought, although all received 2FS wheels and DG’s.

 

Study of photos of all these wagons revealed that while the Presflos gained an overall look of cement dust coated all over them, so were fairly easy to tone down in a very basic way using Rowney white pastel sticks dusted over/brushed on/off with a stiff brush, the others all being grey seemed to have greater variation with a brownish look in certain places, mostly the ends. So while I used white on their underframes, black & brown were also used on the bodies in various mixes, again mainly applied with a stiff brush and worked in or scrubbed off but some then being then worked on with a wet brush to try and produce some variation.

 

 

 

 

 

I’m not sure it worked, or made a noticeable difference from normal viewing distance, (I marvel at the skills some have with weathering). However at the end of the day at least they don’t now look as if they have just left the wagon works after building.

 

The NPCS, indeed all my Blue Era coaching stock was also done while as they say, the iron was hot, and here brown was the main colour used. Here are a couple of before/after comparison shots.

 

 

 

The sides of the Blue/Grey livery coaches were only given the lightest of touches since shots usually show the sides reasonably clean from going through the washers while beneath them the underframes and bogies could get quite dirty brown. A lot of stock, diesels, DMU/EMU etc. seemed to get like this at times, quite clean bodies, filthy bogies and underframes.

 

 

 

 

The overall result seems reasonable and at least they don’t stand out like a sore thumb any more either.

 

Bob

Ohhhh dirty banger blue....bloody love it! Weathering spot on...more please 

[97406]

Super layout! Expecially impressed with the catenary, especially at 2mm scale. Also like the sector plate fiddle yard, which is similar to what I'm considering when I extend my 4mm layout from an inglenook to a shelf. I shall continue peruse the pages at my leisure!

[sb67]

The weathering looks great Bob. It's all too easy to overpower a model in smaller scales,I think the key with 2mm is to be very subtle and you've achieved that very well. Have you sealed the pastels at all? 

 

[Izzy]

3 hours ago, sb67 said:

The weathering looks great Bob. It's all too easy to overpower a model in smaller scales,I think the key with 2mm is to be very subtle and you've achieved that very well. Have you sealed the pastels at all? 

 

 

Thanks Steve, sometimes your so familiar with things it becomes difficult to see the wood for the trees, so someone elses view is invaluable. No, I don't seal the finish. Partly because they give a nice matt result but also so the finer details don't get clogged up which it can easily do in this scale.

 

Bob

 

[Izzy]

Steam era sequence experiments.

 

Trying to arrange a sequence to involve the suitable steam locos I have is an ongoing project. The aim is to represent the changeover period from steam to diesel/electric. When the OHLE was erected and working but before the EMU’s took over all passenger workings, just running on some local services to enable staff training while the number of EMU sets needed were slowly delivered. Class 302/307/308 suburban sets for local use and the Class 309’s for the hourly interval service to London. This was around the 1960/61 period.

 

The two steam locos are a scratchbuilt N7/3 69730 and a Farish Ivatt 2MT 46469. Two N7/3’s were the last steam locos allocated to Walton shed while two 2MT’s, 46468/9, were allocated to Colchester from new in 1951. These along with three allocated to Cambridge mostly worked on the Stour and Colne valley branches replacing ageing LNER E4’s and J15’s but were also seen on the Harwich and Clacton/Walton lines. After the EMU’s took over in 1961 and with the other branches being dieselised they went to Parkeston for Harwich branch services before moving Northwards and then being withdrawn. The N7/3’s actually went at the end of 1960 and before the EMU’s took over the Walton services, so during the interval between their withdrawal and the EMU’s arriving passenger services were provided by diesel hauled ones in the shape of CL15’s with BR Mk1’s. This was just a shuttle service between Walton and Thorpe, the EMU’s already providing all the Clacton line services.

 

The particular problem I face is the small run around at Priory Road. It’s only just big enough to take a pair of BR Mk1 coaches which I feel aren’t really enough and three is better. Using smaller coaches such as Thompson & Gresley 51ft types isn’t an option as these had all disappeared from the area at this date, the BR Mk1’s being the only type generally seen. Of course with the 4-coach 309 EMU's, like the DMU's, this isn't an issue.

 

So I have currently come up with the following short sequence involving both locos along with some parcels stock. Basically the first few moves of the other two sequences with the locos swapping over their trains to enable release of the one trapped at the buffers.

 

The N7/3 arrives from North with the parcels, runs around and pushes the stock into the parcels platform.

 

 

 

 

 

Then the passenger from Walton appears and runs into the main platform.

 

 

 

The loco then uncouples and runs forward slightly.

 

The N7/3 leaves the parcels stock and using the crossover couples up to the coaches.

 

 

 

When given the road it hauls them off to North.

 

Now the 2MT uses the release crossover to reach and couple to the parcels stock,

 

 

 

 

which it takes back to North.

 

 

But that’s as far as I have been able to get and it isn’t one that I feel can readily be repeated through an entire full sequence without seeming false, far too contrived. So more thinking on this is required as there isn’t a loco spur to leave the spare standing around between services throughout the day. And I don't have suitable alternative steam locos to help make it seem 'different' either. Hm.

 

Bob

 

 

[DavidLong]

Morning, Bob.

 

Is there a small window of opportunity up to the withdrawal of the the N7s? Ipswich diesel depot opened in November 1959 and had an allocation of Classes 21, 24 and 31. There are some excellent photos in the Irwell Press volume 'Diesel Depots - The Early Years' that were taken on the opening day, 4th November 1959. The 24 and 31 are easily enough solved but the sad NB Type 2s could provide you with another 'interesting' scratch build! They are also short engines which would suit them to a small layout. 

Your knowledge of the local network at the time is obviously far better than mine but a running of both elderly and newer steam locomotives with the new diesels would give a good impression of transition in East Anglia.

 

David

[Izzy]

Hello David,

 

I think the problem I have is that I am trying to replicate in general what occurred specifically around the Colchester/North East Essex area and I am therefore rather 'boxing myself in'. Having set myself a limit on the amount of stock I can have, which I have already reached, means I'm also trying just to work with what's available.

 

It probably needs looking at differently and your thoughts are most helpful in this respect so thank you. Indeed the reference to Ipswich in conjunction with an ongoing search for a specific image I have seen of a Hunslet 05 on the Waveny Valley branch - which I just can't seem to find again now! - has led me in a (very) roundabout way to think about early diesel shunters in the original black livery. Whether this will lead anywhere is moot, but it all provides food for thought and especially as I have examples spare which could be re-liveried.

 

Bob

 

 

 

[bécasse]

This post of mine outlines what each "08" 350hp diesel shunter looked like when it was first delivered. and gives guidelines for changes made at overhaul up to the introduction of the blue livery. Other classes of diesel shunters would have paralleled these changes, at least in respect of livery. (I did start tabulating the "04" 204hp Drewry shunters in the same way but gave up once I discovered just how many poorly recorded/photographed variations there were - the task was basically impossible.)

Edited September 12, 2022 by bécasse

[Caley Jim]

36 minutes ago, bécasse said:

This post of mine .......

I get a 'Sorry you don't have permission...' message from this link.  Is it something at my end?

 

Jim

[Flying Pig]

11 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

I get a 'Sorry you don't have permission...' message from this link.  Is it something at my end?

 

Jim

 

The link has the characters ?do=edit at the end which need to be removed, thus:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/143114-br-standard-350hp-diesel-electric-shunting-locomotives-–-configuration-as-initially-out-shopped

 

[Lacathedrale]

@Izzy thank you so much for posting those pictures of the layouts operating sequence, it's rare enough one is described, let alone accompanied with such great text. Thank you!

[Izzy]

11 hours ago, bécasse said:

This post of mine outlines what each "08" 350hp diesel shunter looked like when it was first delivered. and gives guidelines for changes made at overhaul up to the introduction of the blue livery. Other classes of diesel shunters would have paralleled these changes, at least in respect of livery. (I did start tabulating the "04" 204hp Drewry shunters in the same way but gave up once I discovered just how many poorly recorded/photographed variations there were - the task was basically impossible.)

It’s interesting to realise that quite a lot of the ‘08’s’ around the exGE area, but mainly Stratford and it’s sub-sheds, Colchester/Parkeston/Harwich etc were actually the earlier smaller wheeled LMS derived design that became TOPS class 11. As the 2mm association now produce a kit for them as well as the 08 I’ve often thought I really aught to make one…..but I seem to have too many locos already….!

 

Looking through Brian Haresnape’s book on diesel shunters the other day: 

British Rail Fleet Survey 7 Diesel Shunters . ISBN 0 7110 1449 3

brought home to me how many of the smaller ones were in black, probably because many never lasted long enough to get the later green. Many of the shots were of Ipswich docks, some of them side skirt fitted, others not, a real mix. Colchester also had several working the docks at the Hythe and this then started my current train of thought as of course it’s only a stones throw from St Boltophs. 
 

Bob 

 

[Nigelcliffe]

Years ago I described in the 2mm magazine how I built a DY1 shunter (as seen on Ipswich dock photos).   B&H Enterprises body etch and very quick chassis build with minimal hand tools.    Though small locos, they have a much wider bonnet than many smaller shunters, so lots of space for motor, etc.. 

 

Both B&H and Judith Edge (much nicer etch!) have the larger class 05, though that needs a chassis with coupling rods, jack-shaft, etc.. so is a bit more work.   The Association's 03/04 chassis probably fits with a tiny bit of tweaking - the wheel spacing is the same.  

 

 

[Satan's Goldfish]

On 10/09/2022 at 17:27, Izzy said:

 

But that’s as far as I have been able to get and it isn’t one that I feel can readily be repeated through an entire full sequence without seeming false, far too contrived. So more thinking on this is required as there isn’t a loco spur to leave the spare standing around between services throughout the day. And I don't have suitable alternative steam locos to help make it seem 'different' either. Hm.

 

Bob

 

 

 

Could light engine moves to/from the nearest coal and water facilities be the answer to the problem? I do like what you've done using the parcels engine for the passenger service, but does the original passenger engine really need to leave with the parcels or could a later (cement?) arrival locomotive be used to remove the parcels. Following that, a light engine move from North further into the sequence could be to move the cement wagons, run round them and shunt them into the parcels bay; passenger service arrives, the free locomotive that had shunted the cement wagons can take the coaches to their next destination and then locomotive freed at the buffers can be used to head North with the cement. 

 

Hope that makes sense!