Yellow ends

[rodent279]

Was any other colour or combination of colours or shapes ever considered, apart from the small, then large yellow panels?

I ask because I've seen quite a few photos of continental locos with a small or full panel of different colours-yellow, red, white.

Cheers N

[Fat Controller]

There were some Thornaby Class 25s that had orange panels; there have been photos linked on here.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Rodent,

 

The Thornaby locomotives were D5153 and D5159 should you wish to search them out.

 

Bonus for you, they are both RATS !!!!

 

Gibbo.

[rodent279]

1 minute ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Rodent,

 

The Thornaby locomotives were D5153 and D5159 should you wish to search them out.

 

Bonus for you, they are both RATS !!!!

 

Gibbo.

Where do you think the call sign came from!

[rodent279]

 

[37038]

D1015 had a 'T' shape yellow panel for a period:

 

Not my photo!

[John M Upton]

There were a couple of 08's or relatives thereof that had experimental panels of black and white stripes. various patterns and all short lived.

[daveyb]

The yellow seems to have changed over the years with the GSYE looking more orangey hue than the later BFYE, but that may be contrast and film aging. I know that the yellow for ends is supposed to be specific hue that fades to pink quite readily. It's interesting to see that the yellow Thunderbirds and the Colas liveries bit had slightly different shades of yellow for the noses compared with the main body.

 

I have doubts as to whether it is possible to scientifically prove whether a colour or pattern stands out more than another... It is so subjective and personal.

 

Probably the most common variations are on the American side. Canadian Pacific had the Action Red livery with black and white stripes on one end, and red and white on the other, in either 8in or 5in breadth stripes depending on when. There are many others with green and orange strips on New Haven, black and white on Norfolk Southern, etc,

 

There some interesting wasp and zig zag examples in the industrial sector, but most systems seem to be relying on lights now. Interestingly, there does appear to be evidence that three light ∆ arrangements aid judgement of distance from an approaching train.

[david.hill64]

There have been a number of discussions about this already. I was sitting on the Traction and Rolling Stock Sub-Committee that dealt with standards issues when Heathrow Express wanted a derogation from the requirement to paint nose ends yellow on the soon to be introduced HEX stock. The grounds were that as they were fitted with UIC headlights there was no need to detract from the aesthetics of the new trains. In reviewing the application the committee was told that the choice of yellow was made not just because of its visibility, but also because for certain health issues of deteriorating eyesight, yellow is the colour that remains visible after all others. While not an issue for staff on and around the track, it might be an issue for the general public using crossings. The evidence also showed that adding the yellow was beneficial in aiding sighting of the trains even with the headlights and the application was rejected. Given that it costs almost nothing to paint an end yellow, and it has a safety benefit, then it is very difficult to construct an argument to say that adding yellow is not a reasonably practicable safety measure.

 

All changed now of course.

[Wickham Green]

12 hours ago, John M Upton said:

There were a couple of 08's or relatives thereof that had experimental panels of black and white stripes. various patterns and all short lived.

More than a couple, actually ...... but yes, blink and they were gone ..................... then there were the orange (?)  V  markings on some of the 'Hampshire'' units ( though the principal reason was to indicate the end with - or was it without - a van ) and I'm not sure whether the 'speed whiskers' on early mechanical units were purely decorative or meant to make them more visible.

[Rugd1022]

On 22/09/2019 at 10:11, 37038 said:

D1015 had a 'T' shape yellow panel for a period:

 

Not my photo!

 

This was an experiment applied at one end only and only lasted two days, it never left the works to run on the mainline in that condition in BR days

 

Experiments were also carried out with yellow panels on the Blue Pullman power cars in 1966.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Rugd1022

[keefer]

I'm presuming this was unique, an odd-shaped wasp panel on a Glasgow Blue Train:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4929626805/in/album-72157607267122063/

 

From introduction in February until August 1961, Deltic D9000 had an experimental flashing headlight:

http://www.napier-chronicles.co.uk/22_22-3-61.htm

 

[BernardTPM]

Normally there was a footstep in that position. As a result of that experiment D9000 was never quite standard, having a narrower step set into a plated square.

[adb968008]

Some 73s got whole yellow cabs, back to the side doors and light grey roofs.

 

(just like large logo blue livery, except without the large logo, and black cab windows).

 

Worked alongside steam, and on BR Green stock.

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by adb968008

[brianusa]

I seem to remember an argy year ago in these very pages concerning the yellow panels with those for and against.  Nowadays it seems to depend on the paint scheme.

     Brian.

[royaloak]

56 minutes ago, brianusa said:

I seem to remember an argy year ago in these very pages concerning the yellow panels with those for and against.  Nowadays it seems to depend on the paint scheme.

     Brian.

It depends on the lights on the front, if they dont comply with the latest spec you have a yellow end, if they do comply you dont need the yellow end.

 

But, if I have a headlight fail on my GWR IET I can continue at linespeed courtesy of the yellow end, if the TPE one (or any of the others without a yellow end) has a failed headlight its 20mph, progress.

Edited September 25, 2019 by royaloak

[Nearholmer]

Somewhere here is a “wasp stripes” thread, which surfaced numerous experimental and local-initiative markings to make shunting locos less invisible prior to universal waspery.

[brianusa]

Hornby had the right idea.  Big bulb in the middle of the smokebox

[adb968008]

In 2002 UK consultants advised PKP adopt yellow ends for safety.

They implemented this to find accident rates actually increased and reverted back to without a few years later.

[Wickham Green]

But did the accident rate drop once they'd reverted ?

[royaloak]

15 hours ago, adb968008 said:

In 2002 UK consultants advised PKP adopt yellow ends for safety.

They implemented this to find accident rates actually increased and reverted back to without a few years later.

Did anything else change around the same time?

Were yellow ended trains involved in more incidents than non yellow ended ones?

etc etc etc.

 

A statement like this doesnt really prove anything without extra information.

[Reorte]

PKP = Polish railways?

 

I'm speculating here may be an element of familiarity involved. Visibility is an important factor but not the only one, if you're used to a certain pattern and colour being a sign of something dangerous coming any change, even if it increases the visibility, might not generate the same "get out of the way" instinct. If that's the case then it's possible changing to yellow ends could cause a temporary increase in accidents that would then fall to below the original level when people are used to yellow.

[Wickham Green]

Similarly, those of us used to yellow ends may not react to yet another white light within our light-polluted environment.

[Classsix T]

On 23/09/2019 at 12:39, Wickham Green said:

... I'm not sure whether the 'speed whiskers' on early mechanical units were purely decorative or meant to make them more visible.

Similarly, I can't recall whether the two experimentally liveried Brush/Mirlees Cl.30, Golden Ochre or (something) Blue replacing loco green, were an actual attempt to improve visibility for track gangs. The Haresnape softback on Pilot Scheme diesels suggests so I seem to recall.

 

C6T. 

[newbryford]

On 24/09/2019 at 12:02, jf2682 said:

There is a black and white photo in Modern Locomotives showing an AL1 (class 81) with a small red panel in place of the normal yellow one.

 

JF.

 

That's a bit like the snooker commentary

"for those of you watching in black and white, the brown ball is behind the green................."