Imaginary Locomotives

[DavidB-AU]

On 18/02/2022 at 02:43, BernardTPM said:

They built a lot of locos in Australia. Early ones had a full width body, but this was soon changed to a narrow hood with full width cab and just evolved on from there.

 

I find it quite disgusting that Alamy is selling these when they are public domain:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/queenslandstatearchives/23673556638/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/queenslandstatearchives/35307515114/

A better angle for the second one:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/queenslandstatearchives/35362536503/

 

I used to work for Queensland State Archives and I personally uploaded these to Flickr.

The New Zealand DG class in its original form was similar, although it was essentially half a double ended DF class.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dx5517/24805574051/

BRCW built some vaguely similar but extremely ugly ones with Sulzer engines for the Commonwealth Railways.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/NSU58_%2B_train_Alice_Springs%2C_2015_(02).JPG/1280px-NSU58_%2B_train_Alice_Springs%2C_2015_(02).JPG

 

An almost identical copy was made for Sierra Leone.
https://www.derbysulzers.com/zambesi.html

 

Cheers

David

Edited February 19, 2022 by DavidB-AU

[BernardTPM]

2 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

 

I find it quite disgusting that Alamy is selling these when they are public domain:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/queenslandstatearchives/23673556638/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/queenslandstatearchives/35307515114/
A better angle for the second one:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/queenslandstatearchives/35362536503/

I used to work for Queensland State Archives and I personally uploaded these to Flickr.

I have to agree with you there David, so I've changed the links to the Flickr originals.

[tythatguy1312]

3 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

I find it quite disgusting that Alamy is selling these when they are public domain

so I'm not the only one who takes issue with that, albeit with me I tend to screenshot the original and crop to fit. Given what I've said on twitter about... various things this isn't surprising

[JimC]

21 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

 

I find it quite disgusting that Alamy is selling these when they are public domain:

 

That's the whole point of public domain. Everyone is free to use things as they like. Alamy are providing a distribution and advertising service. The very fact that the images were found there suggests the service is functional. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by JimC

[PhilJ W]

23 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

I find it quite disgusting that Alamy is selling these when they are public domain:

 

3 hours ago, JimC said:

That's the whole point of public domain. Everyone is free to use things as they like. Alamy are providing a distribution and advertising service. The very fact that the images were found there suggests the service is functional. 

Thank Facebook for that situation. There are people who claim copyright to others pics even going so far as to watermark them. One person in particular operates several accounts under different aliases in breach of Facebook rules and seems to get away with it.

[tythatguy1312]

12 hours ago, JimC said:

providing a distribution and advertising service

Often at a nominal fee, despite the fact that they don't own the image. The fact that they actively watermark it is also rather objectionable.

[ScottishRailFanatic]

On 19/02/2022 at 11:06, whart57 said:

Diesel twins appeared in Thailand too. These Davenport Bo-Bo twins were photographed at Chiang Mai  heading a Bangkok "express".

 

 

Amazingly some are still around albeit used singly as station pilots and shunters far out in the sticks. They're considered useful enough to have had a repaint in the new livery though

 

Haven’t posted here in a while, so here’s a slightly more BR-style version - albeit with a bit more Sulzer influence than Crompton…

[JimC]

19 hours ago, tythatguy1312 said:

Often at a nominal fee, despite the fact that they don't own the image. The fact that they actively watermark it is also rather objectionable.

Well you may find it objectionable, but its legal. Because public domain. If they clean up and otherwise process the images before distribution (admittedly probably unlikely) they may even have a limited copyright on *their version* of the images. I imagine they are probably primarily targeting small companies for whom the convenience is well worth a modest fee. Personally I dislike the thought of anyone taking income from my iwork without paying me a share, so I am careful not to put it in public domain.

Edited February 21, 2022 by JimC

[tythatguy1312]

So, in an attempt to ignore what's going on right now, how many variants of an Austerity 0-6-0ST's basic design could there reasonably be?

[Corbs]

4 hours ago, tythatguy1312 said:

So, in an attempt to ignore what's going on right now, how many variants of an Austerity 0-6-0ST's basic design could there reasonably be?

 

Hmm good question. Variants in what way?

 

At a basic level you have the 4 types of 18" Hunslet:

-Pontop & Jarrow 0-6-0T

-48150

-50550

-Austerity/J94

 

But if looking solely at the Austerity there are loads of detail differences. Some had different wheels, for example, whereas some were the Porta-inspired rebuilds with GPCS, stovepipe chimneys, mechanical underfeed stokers.

Add to that giesl chimneys on some of them, or the 'smoke shielding' blowers the NCB fitted to some.

[The Johnster]

And some of the LNER J94s had hopper bunkers.  

[eldomtom2]

8 hours ago, tythatguy1312 said:

So, in an attempt to ignore what's going on right now, how many variants of an Austerity 0-6-0ST's basic design could there reasonably be?

That depends on what you mean by "variant". Does the preservation-era tender rebuild of 2890/3882 count?

[tythatguy1312]

32 minutes ago, eldomtom2 said:

That depends on what you mean by "variant

Specifically variants that retain the frames and boiler of the Austerity, as well as the 0-6-0 configuration. So things like tenders, side tanks, a pony truck and even a theoretical cape gauge/5ft gauge variant

[PhilJ W]

59 minutes ago, tythatguy1312 said:

Specifically variants that retain the frames and boiler of the Austerity, as well as the 0-6-0 configuration. So things like tenders, side tanks, a pony truck and even a theoretical cape gauge/5ft gauge variant

Cape gauge is 3' 6" probably a too difficult conversion on any locomotive with inside cylinders. A possible conversion is Irish gauge, 5' 3".

[tythatguy1312]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

3' 6" probably a too difficult conversion on any locomotive with inside cylinders.

Never said replacing the running gear wasn't an option, but it wouldn't resemble an Austerity as much.

Hey the Puffing Billy Railway got a Class 04 to 2ft 6in gauge, anything's possible with 0-6-0's

[DK123GWR]

5 minutes ago, tythatguy1312 said:

Hey the Puffing Billy Railway got a Class 04 to 2ft 6in gauge, anything's possible with 0-6-0's

Surely a class 04 doesn't have two 1.5ft diameter cylinders between the wheels...

[tythatguy1312]

2 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

Surely a class 04 doesn't have two 1.5ft diameter cylinders between the wheels...

that's a fair consideration, but using outside cylinders from another standardised design is entirely possible

come to think of it why were Austerities inside-cylinder to begin with, that feels like it has more cons than pros

[billbedford]

On 24/02/2022 at 17:43, PhilJ W said:

Cape gauge is 3' 6" probably a too difficult conversion on any locomotive with inside cylinders. A possible conversion is Irish gauge, 5' 3".

 

Like the NCC jintys, where they just turned the wheels round?

Edited February 25, 2022 by billbedford
typo

[Alex Neth]

10 hours ago, The Johnster said:

And some of the LNER J94s had hopper bunkers.  

Ooh, speaking of hopper bunkers, how excited are you guys for the new NER Class O model coming to TMC exclusively by Bachmann, and the new-build No. 1759?

[6990WitherslackHall]

 

6 hours ago, Alex Neth said:

Ooh, speaking of hopper bunkers, how excited are you guys for the new NER Class O model coming to TMC exclusively by Bachmann, and the new-build No. 1759?

Didn't know that they were doing one

[john new]

4 hours ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

 

Didn't know that they were doing one

If the class O is the same as a G5, very. Have one on order.

[JimC]

On 24/02/2022 at 19:02, tythatguy1312 said:

come to think of it why were Austerities inside-cylinder to begin with, that feels like it has more cons than pros

I have a not very well founded suspicion that enthusiasts tend to exaggerate the practical benefits of outside cylinders and outside valve gear. The trouble with this sort of thing is that few of us are trained steam locomotive designers, and I wonder how sound some of our deductions are. I've found it very easy to construct a cloud cuckoo land castle of theories that seem completely logical, only to have it come crashing down when a new bit of evidence appears.

[The Johnster]

I doubt that the inside cylinders on Austerity/94s were of any more significance than a continuation of the production of Hunslet industrial locomotives of that sort of size.  The 48150 style was a proven success, and the development of this into the Austerity is a fairly clear and simple evolution.  For WD use, the inside cylinders may have been a factor in the choice of the Hunslet design as the basis; a short wheelbase loco is useful on indifferent track such as might be found in war zones, and short wheelbases in conjuntion with outside cylinders are a recipe for poor riding.  You don't want that with bad track!

 

It is ironic, though, that this final flourish of UK steam design was a locomotive that Robert Stephonson would have been completly at home with, although the size and weight would have raised his eyebrows. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by The Johnster

[Ramblin Rich]

Re: inside cylinders and short wheelbase - how did Austerities compare with the USA tanks and 15xx panniers with regard to ride / stability?

[John Besley]

Having fired Austerity on the SDR many times in the 90's they where good hard working locos, most firemen didn't like them for the simple reason you had to keep on top of them all the time.

 

They where designed as shunting engines but then working on a branchline on 5 coaches of which the final climb up to Buckfastleigh was 1iin 50 from nursery pool bridge.

 

With care you could get them to steam on the red line all day without blowing off (did that once) and many time with safety valves lifting just once through the entire day - to do this you had to know the road and your driver