Bacon butties are OK.

[PhilJ W]

Bacon butties are the mainstay of many exhibitions but if your worried about the health risks worry no more >>

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/you-can-now-eat-steak-20358412#source=push

[woodenhead]

Good because a trip by train for me always begins with a bacon bap and a strong coffee - that I do 8 trips per day may be a problem though 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Food related reports are like buses, if you hang around one will be going where you want it to.

 

Mike.

[phil-b259]

6 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Food related reports are like buses, if you hang around one will be going where you want it to.

 

Mike.

 

As has been noted in a BBC article about this new research - its always tricky to separate out the effect of food from everything else. the only way to do it scientifically (and thus be able to make pronouncements as to how much people must or must not eat) would be to take a bunch of folk as genetically similar as possible then feed half the group a meat heavy diet for the rest of their lives! hardly practical or ethical....

[Joseph_Pestell]

The more that I see doctors/medical researchers use statistics, the more that I think they are on a level of competence equal to journalists. Take any figure and use it to justify (falsely) the conclusion that you already wanted to get to.

 

One report recently said that doing or eating something (I forget what) increased the probability of dying by 20%. The probability of death is 100% and you can't increase that.

[Dave Hunt]

Some years ago there was a widespread report in the press that the artificial sweeteners used in some soft drinks and foodstuffs were highly carcinogenic. Rats fed with such stuff developed an alarming incidence of tumours. My father was an industrial chemist and located the original report, which showed that the rats had been fed for a long time on what would equate to something like fifty kilos of sweetener per day for a human. Funding for the 'research' had come from the American Association of Sugar Manufacturers......

 

Dave

[JeremyC]

One problem is people don't understand statistics. If a report says doing something increases the chance of dying by 20% then many folk think 20% of people will die, whereas it really means that if the existing risk is 1% then it is now 1.2%

[Reorte]

28 minutes ago, JeremyC said:

One problem is people don't understand statistics. If a report says doing something increases the chance of dying by 20% then many folk think 20% of people will die, whereas it really means that if the existing risk is 1% then it is now 1.2%

 

If it simply says "increases the risk of dying" that's not right, because as has already been mentioned upthread the risk of dying is 100%. But that's probably the newspaper report rather than the scientific paper. The latter will have it suitably qualified - "the risk of dying from..." or "the risk of dying by age..." or similar.

[Snarlywolf]

51 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

If it simply says "increases the risk of dying" that's not right, because as has already been mentioned upthread the risk of dying is 100%. But that's probably the newspaper report rather than the scientific paper. The latter will have it suitably qualified - "the risk of dying from..." or "the risk of dying by age..." or similar.

The report states ' number of cases of cancer/diabetes per 1000 people or cases per lifetime decrease if x amount less red meat is consumed.I

Scientists/researchers are usually pretty good at their trade. It tends to be when politicians or journalists get hold of facts which they then misunderstand that problems arise.

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Snarlywolf

[PhilJ W]

The bottom line is that most of us in the developed world eat too much. Obesity, whatever one eats is going to shorten your life. Of couse if an overweight person dies who can say how much longer they would have lived if they had less weight? 

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

 

If it simply says "increases the risk of dying" that's not right, because as has already been mentioned upthread the risk of dying is 100%. But that's probably the newspaper report rather than the scientific paper. The latter will have it suitably qualified - "the risk of dying from..." or "the risk of dying by age..." or similar.

IIRC, the term is 'excess deaths'; i.e. the number of people in a particular cohort, who die during a given period , as opposed to the number who would normally be expected to do so.

I used to have a lecturer at poly, who was an expert in this sort of thing; he had an infuriating habit of sitting next to you in the canteen (in itself a place that took years off your life), and telling you how much any item would reduce your life expectancy...

[Reorte]

39 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

IIRC, the term is 'excess deaths'; i.e. the number of people in a particular cohort, who die during a given period , as opposed to the number who would normally be expected to do so.

I used to have a lecturer at poly, who was an expert in this sort of thing; he had an infuriating habit of sitting next to you in the canteen (in itself a place that took years off your life), and telling you how much any item would reduce your life expectancy...

 

Sounds like the type of person who makes you wish for a reduced life expectancy (most things do to me these days).

Edited October 1, 2019 by Reorte

[boxbrownie]

Never doubted it for a moment......hmmm soon be lunchtime 

Edited October 1, 2019 by boxbrownie

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

The bottom line is that most of us in the developed world eat too much. Obesity, whatever one eats is going to shorten your life. Of couse if an overweight person dies who can say how much longer they would have lived if they had less weight? 

 

, or not been run over by a bus?

 

Mike.

[Porcy Mane]

39 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

, or not been run over by a bus?

 

I am both overweight and regularly  feel like I've been run over by a bus but I'm still here. (much too the disappointment of some!)

 

P

Edited October 1, 2019 by Porcy Mane

[F-UnitMad]

I live by the simple mantra that red meat is not bad for you.

It's blue and green meat that's bad for you.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, Fat Controller said:

IIRC, the term is 'excess deaths'; i.e. the number of people in a particular cohort, who die during a given period , as opposed to the number who would normally be expected to do so.

I used to have a lecturer at poly, who was an expert in this sort of thing; he had an infuriating habit of sitting next to you in the canteen (in itself a place that took years off your life), and telling you how much any item would reduce your life expectancy...

I know a married couple, both specialists in epidemiology, who have resolved to bring up their kids on a simple  'everything in moderation basis' for their diet: because the alternative of applying their knowledge in detail is too dreadful to contemplate.

 

The 'excess deaths' metric is useless to the individual (and fine for national health planning) you don't have to lived very long to have seen random cullings among your family and friends from disease, accident, congenital defects: and the like.  All of those people could have stuffed themselves daily with foie gras  with probably no damage to personal life expectancy, because the leukemia, motor accident, aortic aneurysm, ebola etc. was going to cut them short before they hit thirty anyway. On the congential defect front I am lugging around an inoperable AVM in my brain, (detected completely by accident) which in the words of the consultant is 'probably harmless' since I was in my late fifties when it was discovered.

 

And what's so great about a long life if good health has departed? With both my parents now totally incapacitated in their nineties with brain rot (or more formally Alzheimer and Vascular dementias) I feel that a well managed personal excess death targeted at about age 85 might be rather beneficial!

 

And in conclusion. Bacon buttie good, Bacon and two fried egg buttie better, Bacon and two fried egg buttie with Worcester sauce and black pepper ambrosial. Three or four times a year won't hurt. And once over 80 I'll go hog wild on them.

[great central]

Well I've just had one of these and I feel even less guilty now than I did before the reading the article. Also walked a mile or so to get here and the same going back

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

3 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

If it simply says "increases the risk of dying" that's not right, because as has already been mentioned upthread the risk of dying is 100%. But that's probably the newspaper report rather than the scientific paper. The latter will have it suitably qualified - "the risk of dying from..." or "the risk of dying by age..." or similar.

 

I thought of that and checked. It was the original document not the media spin.

[Joseph_Pestell]

34 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

I live by the simple mantra that red meat is not bad for you.

It's blue and green meat that's bad for you.

 

You don't eat venison then? That's quite blue in colour and one of the healthiest low fat meats out there.

[boxbrownie]

22 minutes ago, great central said:

Well I've just had one of these and I feel even less guilty now than I did before the reading the article. Also walked a mile or so to get here and the same going back

 

 

You didn’t even get a smiley face? 

[KeithMacdonald]

“On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”

[F-UnitMad]

20 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

You don't eat venison then? That's quite blue in colour and one of the healthiest low fat meats out there.

There's always a Pedant around every corner on this flippin' Forum

[Reorte]

58 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

I live by the simple mantra that red meat is not bad for you.

It's blue and green meat that's bad for you.

Do you like green eggs and ham?

[F-UnitMad]

4 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

There's always a Pedant around every corner on this flippin' Forum

 

3 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Do you like green eggs and ham?

Often more than one....