'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[TheEngineShed]

5 hours ago, Coppercap said:

I have now had part of my pre-order cancelled. Note: it went in the Spam box.

 

That's a bummer and has me worried.  The one "dark" coach I ordered, H4-6FB-901A, 6 wheel full brake tool van in BR breakdown train red is shown on my pro-order as sold out.   When I search the Hattons website for H4-6FB-901A, it always defaults to H4-6FB-901AL, which is still in stock.  You'd think I'd be in the clear with a March 2021 order date, but after what some others have posted, that might not be a safe bet. 

[PhilJ W]

I thought I had pre-ordered some but according to their website I have no pre-orders.

[NHY 581]

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

What's the answer?  Perhaps not to announce the model and start taking pre-orders until manufacturing is in progress, but that means having to second-guess the demand without having the indictator of pre-orders.  Perhaps a pre-pre-ordering system, in which you semi-formally register interest, information useful to the commisioner when assessing demand, and are then given the opportunity to pre-order at a later stage?  Problem with that is that it is getting into a blurry wishlisty area; glad I only buy the stuff and don't have to worry about that sort of thing, I'm not good with handling stress!

 

 

Sadly for Hattons, they perhaps need to take notice of how the likes of Rapido conduct themselves and crucially, administer their pre-orders. 

 

If there are coaches that you're after Jonners, put in an order ASAP. Many are only available as 'lit' examples now. Extra dosh but at least you'll get them....

 

Rob. 

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

Once again the nonsense myth appears and is perpetuated that the factories in China are not producing what is ordered....  

 

Not nonsense - I think an apology to posters in in order - but reasonable inference based on available information. If you have definite information to the effect that Hattons have under-ordered from factories, relative to their pre-order book, and hence have deliberately accepted pre-orders that they have had no intention of fulfilling, that's a serious charge and I think you need to provide evidence to substantiate it.

[GreenGiraffe22]

10 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

I thought I had pre-ordered some but according to their website I have no pre-orders.

 

Same, I thought I ordered a Southern department coach but there's no trace of it on my account, actually having looked, there's no trace of it on the website, did I imagine it? 

 

Edit: found the item, it was the 'tool van' , silly me trying to find it with the word department. 

 

Still, order vanished without a trace, oh well, £30 towards a Dancehall instead. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by GreenGiraffe22

[JohnR]

27 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

Once again the nonsense myth appears and is perpetuated that the factories in China are not producing what is ordered....  

 

 

Perpetuated by Hattons themselves? Their emails have literally said that this was the case. 

[amdaley]

Whether it's China or Hattons at fault remains to be seen but judging by the emails some customers have received there is a problem in supplying what customers have ordered. 

Now if anyone knows the exact reason for these problems it might help if they were posted here ? 

[Graham_Muz]

40 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Not nonsense - I think an apology to posters in in order - but reasonable inference based on available information. If you have definite information to the effect that Hattons have under-ordered from factories, relative to their pre-order book, and hence have deliberately accepted pre-orders that they have had no intention of fulfilling, that's a serious charge and I think you need to provide evidence to substantiate it.

I have not said anything to the effect that anyone had or has  "deliberately accepted pre-orders that they have no intention of fulfilling"

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Graham_Muz
Typo

[Graham_Muz]

30 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

Perpetuated by Hattons themselves? Their emails have literally said that this was the case. 

Their emails actually state

"We have now received our finalised numbers for these models and due to the popularity of this project, I am afraid that we are having to remove these items from your order." 

Sensibly vague... 
 

[amdaley]

20 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

Their emails actually state

"We have now received our finalised numbers for these models and due to the popularity of this project, I am afraid that we are having to remove these items from your order." 

Sensibly vague... 
 

That email could be taken as "We took too many pre orders for some of the models" 😏

[PhilJ W]

2 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

Once again the nonsense myth appears and is perpetuated that the factories in China are not producing what is ordered....  

 

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Not nonsense - I think an apology to posters in in order - but reasonable inference based on available information. If you have definite information to the effect that Hattons have under-ordered from factories, relative to their pre-order book, and hence have deliberately accepted pre-orders that they have had no intention of fulfilling, that's a serious charge and I think you need to provide evidence to substantiate it.

 

1 hour ago, amdaley said:

Whether it's China or Hattons at fault remains to be seen but judging by the emails some customers have received there is a problem in supplying what customers have ordered. 

Now if anyone knows the exact reason for these problems it might help if they were posted here ? 

A lot of the blame can be placed at mother natures feet, first covid and now a drought.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Graham_Muz said:

I have not said anything to the effect that anyone had or has  "deliberately accepted pre-orders that they have no intention of fulfilling"

 

 

Nevertheless I believe you should apologise to posters for describing what they wrote as "nonsense" without offering any substantive evidence in support of your assertion.

[Graham_Muz]

Just now, Compound2632 said:

 

Nevertheless I believe you should apologise to posters for describing what they wrote as "nonsense" without offering any substantive evidence in support of your assertion.

Not at all, in my opinion, it is nonsense, my experience gained from currently working with multiple factories in China in this industry, non of which have underdelivered at any time,

Likewise no one else has provided any substantive evidence that the factories are in anyway at fault or adopting such practices, so apparently to make such claims and assumptions is ok is it... 

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

Not at all, in my opinion, it is nonsense, my experience gained from currently working with multiple factories in China in this industry, non of which have underdelivered at any time,

 

Thank you, that is as far as I am concerned adequate evidence in support of your assertion.

 

10 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

Likewise no one else has provided any substantive evidence that the factories are in anyway at fault or adopting such practices, so apparently to make such claims and assumptions is ok is it... 

 

But those posters who inferred from the previously available evidence that the case might be otherwise did so in good faith without the benefit of your knowledge and experience.

 

If you had simply made the statement that in your experience, as someone involved in the business, no Chinese factory had underdelivered, you would no have run the risk of appearing rude. The description of other posts as "nonsense" was unnecessary in the context.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Compound2632

[Matt C]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Not nonsense - I think an apology to posters in in order - but reasonable inference based on available information. If you have definite information to the effect that Hattons have under-ordered from factories, relative to their pre-order book, and hence have deliberately accepted pre-orders that they have had no intention of fulfilling, that's a serious charge and I think you need to provide evidence to substantiate it.

 

 

Could you please also supply your evidence that the Factory have under supplied ?

 

Reading Hattons message it infers to me that someone added up the pre orders and realised they arent getting enough stock to fullfill all of them. I'm pretty sure they would otherwise have said " sorry guys for whatever reason we arent getting as many from the factory as we expected so we are supplying on a first ordered first served basis" which would push the blame onto the manufacturer 

 

 

[Graham_Muz]

15 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Thank you, that is as far as I am concerned adequate evidence in support of your assertion.

 

 

But those posters who inferred from the previously available evidence that the case might be otherwise did so in good faith without the benefit of your knowledge and experience.

 

If you had simply made the statement that in your experience, as someone involved in the business, no Chinese factory had underdelivered, you would no have run the risk of appearing rude. The description of other posts as "nonsense" was unnecessary in the context.

Except it wasn't 'previously available evidence" it was supposition, hearsay and assumptions... 

 

I am at will to use the language of my choice to make a point and I wasn't aware that your opinion on such means you are the voice of all posters .

 

Anyway people can make their own mind up on the cause whether they receive the item(s ) they wanted or unfortunately won't. 
 

I will refrain from commenting further. 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Graham_Muz
Final sentence added.

[amdaley]

What ever the reasons its unsatisfactory for customers.

You would hope that preordering would ensure that customers would get the product ordered.

I really think Hattons should provide further clarification to those left disappointed.

It might provide reassurance to customers that the same thing won't happen again in the future.

[PhilJ W]

An interesting point, the shortages seem to be among the unlit versions more than those with lighting. If you go into a Hornby stockist its the same with their generic coaches. Many of the unlit ones are sold out just leaving the ones with lighting. I have a few of the Hornby offerings, with one exception without lights, and that because the unlit version wasn't available. Perhaps both Hattons and Hornby have overestimated the popularity of illuminated rolling stock? 

[The Johnster]

I’m buying Ratio, perfectly good GW coaches for my miners’ workmans service.  The loss of the sale of 3 coaches won’t hurt Hats, and I wish them well of the project, but I can’t be bothered waiting or stressing over pre-orders.  

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I’m buying Ratio, perfectly good GW coaches for my miners’ workmans service. 

 

A better choice for your layout anyway, if you'll excuse me saying so.

[The Johnster]

No excuse needed, Stephen.  Yes, the Ratio brake third is the type used on the Glyncorrwg train, the basis for my train and the reason a couple of Dapol Main Line & City coaches might show up as well.  The clerestories present a problem because the Glyncorrwg set didn’t have a brake vehicle, but rule 1 covers this I think…

[D9020 Nimbus]

Whatever has happened, one of the following must be true:

 

Either the factory have not supplied the number of items ordered; 

Or Hattons have taken more pre-orders than they have ordered from the factory.

 

There are no other possibilities that I can think of. 

 

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

There are no other possibilities that I can think of. 

 

Which is why it is disingenuous to claim that saying the first statement is untrue does not imply that you are saying the second statement is true!

[Matt C]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Which is why it is disingenuous to claim that saying the first statement is untrue does not imply that you are saying the second statement is true!

 

Whut ???🤦‍♂️

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Matt C said:

 

Whut ???🤦‍♂️

 

It's what someone attempted to do earlier today, upthread.