William's Workbench - LBSCR, LC&DR & SER in 4mm, and Gauge 1

[Lacathedrale]

I'm all done but for the handles (to be fitted after painting) and brake hoses and I'm not sure how to handle them - they hook under the headstocks but have basically zero contact area - and if I were to glue or solder them to the van ends then I wouldn't be able to remove the chassis for glazing after painting....

 

 

I also picked up some Ratio coaches for about the price of the P4 wheels they came with - lots of bits broken on them I'm afraid :(

 

[Mikkel]

 

Lovely build of the horsebox. I like those quaint roof vents (if that's what they are?).

 

11 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

I also picked up some Ratio coaches for about the price of the P4 wheels they came with - lots of bits broken on them I'm afraid :(

 

Including the Ratio stepboard syndrome I see. I can't imagine how many combined modellers' hours must have gone into repairing and swearing at those over the years. We could have saved the planet in that time 🙂

[Penlan]

5 hours ago, Mikkel said:

....... I like those quaint roof vents (if that's what they are?).🙂

Yes, that's what they are 😎

[Lacathedrale]

On 09/05/2022 at 06:10, Mikkel said:

 

Ratio stepboard syndrome

 

Yes, surprisingly flexible but snap at the drop of a hat. One of the bogies on the coach exploded when I tried to remove the wheels to de-rust them. I have given the bodies a good wash in the meantime.

 

Is there a known-good solution for the stepboards at least? I'm not really that fussed about interior detail. There are partitions fitted so I may just paint them brown with the relevant fabric colour underneath.

[Penlan]

Step boards - Brass 'L' section, such as 'Eileens Emporium' https://www.eileensemporium.com/materials-for-modellers/product/brass-l-section-3-5mm-x-1-5mm-x-250mm/category_pathway-1082

Edited May 11, 2022 by Penlan

[Mikkel]

I have repaired the stepboards with styrene in the past, possible but messy and not very sound. So last time I decided that *next time* I would try what Penlan suggested. That next time still hasn't come though, fingers crossed.

[Simond]

Try Barry, prices are better.  Usual disclaimers

 

http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/metals-materials.htm

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

@Penlan is the suggestion to re-fabricate the whole stepboard and support legs, or just use it on the rear face of the existing stepboards to stiffen and provide a locating feature for a new styrene board?

 

I've just put an order into Wizard, and Gosh I think I need to find a handkerchief to staunch the nosebleed from spending so much on brake shoes and yokes, and screw couplings. The screw couplings are required for our horsebox of course. I of course forgot to order vacuum pipes for the coaches, so another order will be required in the meantime, bother.

 

Lastly, I'm giving Valeo 70-985 "Hull Red" a run as the LNWR/SER Carmine Lake. Experimental results due shortly.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Penlan]

3 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

@Penlan is the suggestion to re-fabricate the whole stepboard and support legs, or just use it on the rear face of the existing stepboards to stiffen and provide a locating feature for a new styrene board?

If it was me, I would have used 'L' shaped brass strip to start with.
If you are looking to just reinforce the existing, I think (that's just me) I would glue a flat bit of 0.25mm flat strip underneath, probably hard brass or nickel silver.
BUT, these are just what I would do, not suggesting they are THE things to do.
Be aware I think what your doing is excellent, that's why I'm following this thread 😎

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks Penlan. I'm going to try to finish off the horsebox first, and not try to have too many plates spinning. Once it's done I'll take a view on the coaches.

 

First spray of primer on the horsebox is positive:

 

Seems a bit bananas that this kit has so many brass parts which are fitted AFTER painting and lining - I'm sure it's going to cause problems...

 

[Penlan]

I have six of these horseboxes, bought and assembled when they first came out from PC models.
First shown at ExpoEM when it was at the London Docks place..  I can't find my details from that time.
A few years later and with a few other horseboxes added too, Paul Jones of Warley Club, commented as my Horsebox special ran through 'Hartwell', "There's a LOT of patience and time in that train".   
So I can appreciate the care your taking.

[Lacathedrale]

The roof is a glaze of Vallejo Pale Sand (which is a creamy warm white) over grey primer. Its washed out in this picture due to the direct sunlight but there's some preshading showing through around the roof  vents.

The body is Vallejo Hull Red with a drop of Vallejo German Camo Dark Grey in it. This is to approximate Carmine Lake. I think it's a little bright and flat now, but with a couple of coats of gloss varnish and then some oils I think it will pass. It will also likely form the base colour for my SER coaches.

I used pure valleo German Camo Grey for the chassis (can't you tell?)

 

 

I've just noticed the wonky door strapping but that'll be a lesson learned for another.

 

I also got myself a 0.5mm Pentel gold paint pen - but I'm not sure if it's going to be fine enough to line this out. I guess we'll have to see!

[Citadel]

Looking good 🙂

 

Have to admit my experiment with the Pentel pens didn’t end particularly well but interested to see how you get on.  The picture in my earlier post used a Rotring (0.13 or 0.18mm) with their white ink tinted with yellow Windsor & Newton calligraphy ink.  One day I’ll try to master a bow pen but sense the learning curve possibly might be too big a challenge for me!

Edited May 13, 2022 by Citadel

[Paul Cram]

What livery is that meant to represent?

[Lacathedrale]

With a couple of coats of gloss varnish it's approaching what I'm after - Carmine Lake as used by LNWR and SER @Paul Cram

 

 

I think I'm going to omit the lining, the pentel pen is too wide and honestly, I'd rather have this done than added to the pile of 'well, that was a learning experience'.

 

For finishing, my plan is to use oils to shade and then buff them off the raised panels, to give that look of "very well maintained but working in a filthy environment" and the variance in glossiness that that lends.

 

Today though: ExpoEM. Wallet, quake in fear.

[Lacathedrale]

Well, I thought the armour of "I'm only going to buy southern region items that were constructed pre-1899" would be infallible, but I ended up picking up a fair number of kits at ExpoEM:

 

 

• LCDR Luggage Van (annoyingly, got given 12mm Mansell wheels instead of 14mm from the Alan Gibson stand - my fault for not double checking)
• 3x packs of vacuum tubes and 2x packs of coach buffers to replace the damaged Ratio ones, and 1 strip of Eileen's L-section Brass - just to see what I can do with the footboards. (Bloody hell, these coaches are going to cost me about £50 each at this rate.)
• LCDR Goods Break
• SER Ballast wagon
• SER 1864 Coal wagon  (If you can believe it, in the whole show there were only three SER/LCDR wagons and two of them were the ones I scratchbuilt earlier in this thread - I decided to double up on this one since they were so proliferant)
• Parry dumb buffered PO wagon
• Stephenson Clarke dumb buffered PO wagon

 

I will probably still need parts, but I think now I'll have a complete goods train, and a complete passenger train. With the 0-6-0T SER R-class, these should be enough to demonstrate to myself, if nothing else, that 4mm finescale in some form can be managed.

 

Speaking of 'in some form', I had a really wonderful chat with @t-b-g on his "EM the Manchester Way" stand and I can only encourage anyone reading this who is going tomorrow to seek out Tony to hear about it. One of my major issues with EM was/is that the flangeway just doesn't look right, and Manchester EM tightens it up.

 

I'm sure Tony can describe much more eloquently but as I understand it's a relatively unexplored parallel evolution of the EM/18mm early days. Where some people moved from 18mm to 18.2mm to accomodate RTR wheels/flanges eased out, the Manchester EM standard doubles down on the 18mm gauge, using a wheel flange of the same width but less depth. This avoids the additional lateral slop in the 18.2mm standard, and permits a closer to scale flangeway of 0.8mm:

 

The throat of Tony's  "Sheffield Attercliffe" built to Manchester EM standards

 

I think I'll still be pushing on with P4 to see where it takes me, but this looks like a very interesting potential solution should it prove to be too challenging.

 

Other than that, two sad affairs - seeing a non-zero number of kits (which were still in production) marked up higher than their RRP on the s/h stall, and being told to not open the tape seal on a coach kit to check inside because it was "absolutely mint" - only to subsequently open it after purchase and find out it was half scrap etch and half a badly made chassis, and that's it!

 

[Lacathedrale]

Well, the extra bearings went in but there's no change at all to the "brakes-full-on" behaviour of the vehicle - the wheels all turn and aren't jammed or binding, but are the exact opposite of free wheeling and the wagon needs to be on a 1:5 incline before it starts to roll:

 

 

I have not really enjoyed this build at all and it has not resulted in a useful bit of stock.

 

To try to recoup some of my mojo I cracked open the Chatham Kits "Parry" P.O. wagon. "Ft the ends to one side and then add the floor in and the other side.

1. ends on, then fall off
2. ends on, one upside down
3. ends on, floor doesn't fit because they are meant to be outboard of the sides
4. ends on outboard of the sides, floor doesn't fit because it needs to fit UNDER the sides.

Definitely time to do something else completely.

[Lacathedrale]

Argh! I think I've had it up to my eyeballs with these two kits! I got the ends and the ends together plumb and square with the floor in - only to find out that the casting for the solebars and dumb-buffers don't fit!

 

Turns out, you DO need to put the ends inside the sides - but if you do that, then the floor doesn't fit!  The corner washer plates did look strange- but I figured that this must be some particular strange setup for this wagon. Since this is the only way the items used (so far) fit together. Honestly, I'm not sure how you're meant to know that with the ambiguity of the instructions and the fact that the etched floor supplied with the kit is the wrong size.

 

 

Swing and a miss. Good job I've got superglue debonder. With the floor trimmed it's back together the proper way around, but gosh - that was annoying.

 

With the floor trimmed 2.5mm to fit between the headstocks, the alignment lines for the W-irons are now out - but since there is no positive alignment for them anyway, no big deal!

Edited May 15, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Have I bottled the LNWR Horsebox because I'm scared to line it and muck the whole thing up? Yes I have.

 

In the meantime, the Parry P.O. wagon is together and is starting to look like a wagon. I'm afraid my first real efforts at hand lettering leave much to be desired, but I'm only going to get better by practising so better started now than never:

 

 

I still need to add the drop shadow to the lettering and give it a healthy oil wash. I'm really impressed with the cast details - the angled washer plates running on the inside of the wagon and then shown through the floor to the outside of the solebars, the various bolts, etc. - but so many problem sto get the rest of the way:

 

- Aforementioned floor issue

- Whitemetal brake v-hanger completely useless and snapped off in a stiff breeze, and no brake lever or ratchet bracket supplied (etched replacements from S4 store)

- Ridicolously undersized cast drawbar plates (ditto)

- Cast brake blocks for an 8'6" wheelbase instead of the 8' as here so required lots of filing back to fit.

- Spring castings aren't the correct width to align with the bolts and (imagined) timbers on the solebar,  and needed to be split and re-worked to permit the rocking axle to rock. Given the accuracy elsewhere I'm most unhappy with this, but we need stock for a layout, not a display cabinet...

 

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

I'm afraid my first real efforts at hand lettering leave much to be desired,

I wish I was that “bad”…

Quote

but I'm only going to get better by practising so better started now than never

That’s the spirit!

[Lacathedrale]

I think at this point, I'm going to call it good and move on to the weathering:

 

 

Given my repeated abject failures with varnish, I'm going to coat with Johnsons Klear AKA Pledge before oil washing, and then see if I can source a matt varnish aerosol from somewhere. Testors Dullcote was pretty good back in the day?

 

Also, there's no way in hell I'm hand-lettering "Stephenson Clarke & Co Ltd. London" on the next one, despite my reservations I think it'll have to be a transfer!

[Penlan]

Don't forget the 5 (Five) link couplings - top one shackled to the hook.
This is a 5&9 kit, which has all the failings you've mentioned above.
I have the impression these are from the moulds that at one time were sold by 'Woodham Wagon Works'. 

I have a few. 


 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Penlan

[Lacathedrale]

EDIT: Ignore

Edited May 16, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Penlan]

You make them yourself.
The shackle pin is a Peco track pin,
The top link is from PC 'Screw Link' Etchings - normally the curved part is through the hook, the two 'holes' connecting to the middle 'screw' representation bit.  But here at the top for the Peco track pin to go through.
The 3 middle ones are from a (old) neckless chain, and the bottom one bent up from garden iron flower wire.
'Simples'.......
OK, perhaps I was pulling your leg a bit re. mentioning 5 link shackled couplings, but........

[Nick Holliday]

18 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Have I bottled the LNWR Horsebox because I'm scared to line it and muck the whole thing up? Yes I have.

 

In the meantime, the Parry P.O. wagon is together and is starting to look like a wagon. I'm afraid my first real efforts at hand lettering leave much to be desired, but I'm only going to get better by practising so better started now than never:

 

 

I'm really impressed with the cast details - the angled washer plates running on the inside of the wagon and then shown through the floor to the outside of the solebars, the various bolts, etc. - but so many problem sto get the rest of the way:

 

- Aforementioned floor issue

- Whitemetal brake v-hanger completely useless and snapped off in a stiff breeze, and no brake lever or ratchet bracket supplied (etched replacements from S4 store)

- Ridiculously undersized cast drawbar plates (ditto)

- Cast brake blocks for an 8'6" wheelbase instead of the 8' as here so required lots of filing back to fit.

- Spring castings aren't the correct width to align with the bolts and (imagined) timbers on the solebar,  and needed to be split and re-worked to permit the rocking axle to rock. Given the accuracy elsewhere I'm most unhappy with this, but we need stock for a layout, not a display cabinet...

I've just dug out a Parry wagon that I built using the original Woodham Wagon Works (@burgundy) castings, and I can't see the problems you cite. 

No flooring was provided, so a plastic rectangle was cut to fit, rather than trying to match the etching to the castings.

The brake gear appears to fit correctly at 8' wheelbase, the V-iron is pretty solid and there was a lever and bracket provided.

I don't understand why you think the drawbar plate is "ridiculously" small.  Tavender's book on Private Traders' Wagons shows a wide variety of size and shape of these plates, and I am not aware of a definitive photo of the end of this wagon to be able to judge.

The springs in the WWW castings match the side view in a book on the North London Railway.  They are not meant to align with the bolt heads on the solebar, which are intended to represent the fixings for the W-irons.  The WWW kit was intended to be built using rocking W-irons (not supplied) which could be positioned to suit the mouldings and the axle box/spring casting could be fixed to the etched irons, with a small allowance to permit the rocking.

I suspect the problems are down to the provenance of the kit.  When @burgundy stopped producing his own kits, most of the masters and moulds passed to 5&9 Models @5&9Models but the two LBSCR ballast wagons and the Parry and Stephenson & Clarke PO wagons went to Roxey Mouldings, where they were incorporated in the Chatham range of wagon kits.  They were improved with the addition of the etched floor and W-irons, to make a complete kit, and it is possible that the moulds have been revised as well and maybe in this process errors crept in, or perhaps this was just a packing error, with more items in the range making things more complicated.