William's Workbench - LBSCR, LC&DR & SER in 4mm, and Gauge 1

[Mikkel]

That does look like thinner lines already, thanks for sharing the experiences with this.

 

7 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

I've deliberately only lined the bottom half of each panel to try to give the effect that it's only on the sides of the moulding and naturally you wouldn't be able to see it from the railway viewpoint.

 

I see what you mean from this viewpoint. Would it maybe look odd if at some point in the future when the layout is done you begin to take eye-level photos?

[Lacathedrale]

That's a really good point. I've re-lined the coaches over the top which was fairly successful in evening out the gold, but I still need to tidy up where I've gone over the lines. I realise having taken the photo below that I've forgotten to line the sides of top-left panel for the second time:

 

 

This is taken at about as low as I think I'm going to get for these coaches and I don't think (!) it looks wrong. I think the relief on the panelling would make the top lining much less visible than the rest with light/shadow being cast from above and as my lines are still rather wide I think adding it there might up highlighting the over-scale width and look a bit heavy-handed?

 

This is my mantra currently, courtesy of the bard:

 

Quote

Were it not sinful then, striving to mend,
To mar the subject that before was well?

 

There's definitely a case for a proper order of operation on these coaches - they've had so many coats of paint and varnish and it's felt like a really long-winded process. Bogies, Buffers and Gas lights are en-route from Wizard so hopefully I can finish construction on the Bogie soon. Right now, I'm working on the control panel for the layout these will run on.

[Lacathedrale]

Wizard etched bogies and buffers have arrived, so baby permitting I should have the D67 48' Billinton All Third ready for transfers soon. 

 

I took apart the Triang Clerestory to get an idea of how that would look and was a little surprised (but shouldn't have been!) that the bogies are rivitted in place. The bogie positions for all but the tri-comp are fine as-is, so I interpret Terry Gough's cutting remarks as a suggestion to slice through the entire coach body in one fell swoop, which seems a little optimistic when it comes to getting it straight and level? in three planes with no flat reference surfaces? Any ideas?

[Nick Holliday]

On 10/08/2022 at 14:20, Lacathedrale said:

Wizard etched bogies and buffers have arrived, so baby permitting I should have the D67 48' Billinton All Third ready for transfers soon. 

 

I took apart the Triang Clerestory to get an idea of how that would look and was a little surprised (but shouldn't have been!) that the bogies are rivitted in place. The bogie positions for all but the tri-comp are fine as-is, so I interpret Terry Gough's cutting remarks as a suggestion to slice through the entire coach body in one fell swoop, which seems a little optimistic when it comes to getting it straight and level? in three planes with no flat reference surfaces? Any ideas?

I can't find the Terry Gough articles so I am intrigued as to how he tackled the tri-composite. I've had a look and come to the conclusion that you have to make a lot of cuts to achieve a reasonable likeness, as you have to increase the width for the first class which means sacrificing a couple of the second class compartments, and probably add a couple of thirds from the GWR brake, as the end compartments are noticeably smaller.

The lighter sections are taken from third class and the darker are the seconds.

As I noted earlier, it would be a lot simpler to create the D61/86 50 foot first/second composite. Just(!) add four second class compartments to four third class and voila! Although built as part of the 48' close-coupled block trains, by around 1911 many had been provided with long buffers, and could appear in sets with the newer 54' stock.

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks Nick, you've convinced me to make the D61 instead. FYI Terry suggests cutting one side or another of the compartment centre-lines. This is the only picture I have:

 

I've made up the bogies but am short Mansell wheels (I guess they would still have been Mansell at this point?)  so they're on order - and that complete the D67 is basically done and I can get cracking on the next items.

 

 

Annoyingly, I'm one Triang brake third short of being able to put together that D61 First/Third Comp, a D129 Brake Second Luggage and a D139 Brake Third, so I guess I'll get the meat of the first two done and then when the process is proven, I will get another BT and sort the latter.

 

One large gap i'm seeing is a Lav First which shows up in the 1908 City Limited - is this something I can cobble together from a pair of Tri-ang Composites? I'll have two left over and while I'm assuming not, maybe worth a try!

 

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

Some EB Models transfers completes the D95:

 

 

I have considered doing some weathering but I'm really not convinced - my test coach on the left with the easi-liner test lining, and the D67 All Third unweathered on the right:

 

 

This is just a light spray of a grey-brown on the lower bit of the panels and footboards, but it just ends up looking like ghosting or reflections of the surface underneath. I'm not sure how to pull off the pre-group weathered look, really...

 

As a side note, the panel widths of the D67 are such that I can't fit the bloody L B & S C R lettering in - time for some splicing?

Edited August 15, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Well, here's my transfer effort on the D67 - the panels for the doors are slightly too narrow, so the 'D' in THIRD overlaps onto the handle instead of being alongside. The compartment panels are also too narrow for L B & S C R so I've compromised on L B S C R which just about fits. 

 

Carriage is numbered 12 to align to a 1904 BRCW-built example with Stone's electric lighting:

 

 

It needs more microsol and a few layers of gloss varnish to build up the layers but I feel is fairly respectable. And I've just noticed I'm missing the Havock vents above the end compartment doors and the buffer shanks need painting too. Oh well!

 

[Rob Pulham]

On 27/07/2022 at 18:23, Lacathedrale said:

Oh I definitely wouldn't leave it as matt as that @t-b-g I'm not sure what's going on but my recent attempts at using klear have gone a bit awry - they're going with a very satin finish. I don't mind giving it a coat of gloss but I am a little worried! 

 

@Regularity I could potentially mix them? or add some red leather/terracotta into the umber.

If you are spraying Klear, you need to really drop the air pressure around 18 psi to get a gloss coat and then build it up in a few layers rather than trying to get it all on in one coat.

[Lacathedrale]

I’m generally using about 20psi - I’ll try again on a test wagon. Using valllejo glossy varnish has been a success though 

[Lacathedrale]

Still waiting on the Mansell wheels, so why not get the other D67 done while my eye is in on it?

 

 

 

This will be from the initial batch with gas lighting and intermediate smoking compartments, and will be in Umber/white - an over emphasis on the period differences since both D67s would have seen both liveries, but at least theres some variation? The fact the use of an all over Umber livery requires double the transfers (56!) has nothing at all to do with it.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

It went alot more smoothly this time, knowing what my end goal is - LMS buffers, scratchbuilt queenposts, thin partitions (since I'm not doing interiors that's fine with me!), and then an overall basecoat of 7:1 Chocolate Brown:Black and and panelling of 7:1 Pale Sand:Chocolate Brown. One afternoon to build it, one afternoon to paint:

 

 

I tried to line on the matt finish as recommended by the Easi-Liner, but it didn't go as well with the dip pen, there being quite a few issues with viscosity. It turned out OK in the end though, so hard to complain:

 

 

You can't really see the lining on this one I'm afraid, but trust me, it's there! 

 

I realise I forgot to paint the grab and door handles on both carriages, so they're going to get a coat of the same 'sunny skintone' that I used for the lining. I just need to get the screw couplings added and the other bogie built - not too onerous really.

 

I am really quite worried though, that I have two Peco Double Slips as part of the layout throat and I think that might cause too much throw and/or buffer locking around the nominal 2' curve of the diverging routes...

[Lacathedrale]

On 12/08/2022 at 10:54, Nick Holliday said:

As I noted earlier, it would be a lot simpler to create the D61/86 50 foot first/second composite. Just(!) add four second class compartments to four third class and voila! Although built as part of the 48' close-coupled block trains, by around 1911 many had been provided with long buffers, and could appear in sets with the newer 54' stock.

 

@Nick Holliday, in your diagrams I note there is red lining around the windows - is this something I need to do/have done? I seem to have totally missed it if so, and I was just about to glaze up the carriages I've built so far...

[Nick Holliday]

8 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

 

@Nick Holliday, in your diagrams I note there is red lining around the windows - is this something I need to do/have done? I seem to have totally missed it if so, and I was just about to glaze up the carriages I've built so far...

I suspect that the red colouring is a draughtsman’s nicety. I think it only applies to the droplight frames in the doors, which may have been varnished wood, but a different timber from the main panelling, although I can’t find any details in Ian White’s books.

 

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks Nick!

 

My train needs a brake vehicle, so I  am starting to cobble together a D139 - a 7 Compt. Brake Third:

 

 

5 Compartments from one Tri-ang BT, 2 Compartments from another, and the Brake-end minus ducket. It will need new ends, roof and underframe detail - but I think the only challenging thing there is going to be forming the roof. I think the compartments will have to be full height and with the roof profile atop.

 

In an ideal world I'd like to build a D129 Brake Second Luggage and the D61 First/Second Composite, but I think I'm going to be one BT short. Oh well! 

 

I'm not sure the best way to fill the gaps between the panel joins, I've tried Vallejo Plastic Putty but it seems to just wick away  or shrink down - any ideas?

[Lacathedrale]

Nope, turns out I had just enough - the following shows, front to back - a 54' 5 Compt. Brake Second with extra luggage space, the previously illustrated 54' 7 Compt. Brake Third,  and a 50' 8 Compt. Ex-suburban First/Second Composite in the rear:

 

 

Lots of work to do on these - but I'm hoping by batch-building I'm going to get economies of scale with the various steps. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

I keep getting dusty finishes with my Vallejo Gloss - I've read that a drop of flow improver and a smidge of retarding medium might help, and since I've just bought myself half a litre of the bloody stuff - I guess I'd better try it! 

 

EDIT: One side went down perfect, the other side went down very blotchy, which I wiped up with a tissue.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Slow progression:

 

 

I have no idea how, but my Brake Second Luggage (front of the previous post) has ended up one panel too short - it should be 3 + 4 + 4 and so is now about 8mm too short. I'm of a split mind whether to splice in another panel or not yet - I've been fairly lucky with the cu and shuts so far...

[hayfield]

With my limited experience on splicing items together especially with coaches its the door positions which determine where the cuts can be made. Sometimes a slight compromise has to be accepted to preserve the hidden joins 

[Lacathedrale]

I have a donor section that i can cut the extra section from, but I would need to slice either side of a single panel and somehow maintain (or repair) the beading either side of it - and then make a pretty bloody good cut and insert it perfectly, while maintaining alignment in all three axis. 

 

I think I'll leave that one aside for now and push on with the D61 (First/Second Compt) and D139 (Brake Third) - if they end up being at least passable then I'll invest the time in the D129 (Brake Second Luggage). That's a bit annoying because the Brake Second Luggage was the only vehicle I definitely wanted!!!

Edited August 22, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Well, the wheels finally arrived so here's that first D67 looking suspiciously close to being complete:

 

 

 

I'm having a bit of a crisis at the moment - whether to continue with three-link and screw-link couplings, or DGs, or leave them as tension locks?  The 24" radius for the slips in the throat of the layout is giving me a bit of worry...

[Nick Holliday]

On 19/08/2022 at 18:09, Nick Holliday said:

I suspect that the red colouring is a draughtsman’s nicety. I think it only applies to the droplight frames in the doors, which may have been varnished wood, but a different timber from the main panelling, although I can’t find any details in Ian White’s books.

 

The consensus of opinion in the Brighton Circle eGroup is that it is purely a drawing convention, probably to denote a droplight sash, rather than a livery statement. It was noted that the solebar was coloured blue, denoting steel.

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks again, Nick.

 

Here's the second D67 -  as No. 678, built in 1902:

 

 

And here it is alongside it's refurbished sister No 12: 

 

 

Both still need glazing and screw link couplings added, but I'm pretty pleased with them!

[Lacathedrale]

Forgive me father for I have sinned

 

 

I have sinned greatly:

 

 

In my defence, the wagons were being sold for less than the price of the replacement axles.

 

Yes, the axles. Those P4 axles. 

 

I have sinned.

[41516]

The only sin there is that Hornby brake van....   Price per usable axle is definately one of my used kit metrics, especially on job lots.

 

If you'd be interested in swapping those Three AItch (?) LNER vans for items from my Coopercraft stash, please let me know.

[Lacathedrale]

With no frame of reference, what's wrong with the Hornby Brake van? In order to allow myself to commit fully to the 00 Edwardian Terminus without reservation, I'm trying 'one last time' with P4, and so they are purely going to be used at this stage as test vehicles...