William's Workbench - LBSCR, LC&DR & SER in 4mm, and Gauge 1

[Siberian Snooper]

5 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

I bought a built GWR O4(?) wagon for a song on eBay and after trimming the brake shoes, adding a pivot rod, removing the D-shape tension lock coupling, and fitting 3-links, I set about painting it in the red scheme - it's yet to recieve powders and a final super-matt varnish but overall I'm fairy pleased with the evening's work:

 

 

I've another (unbuilt) version of this kit, I may well paint it in the hybrid livery illustrated so well by @Mikkel in his 'same but different' blog entry:

 

 

 

 

You need to add the brake levers to the triangular iron work at the right hand end (as seen in the picture) also the cross shaft.

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Siberian Snooper
bad English.

[Lacathedrale]

Ah! Good spot for both the solebar and the brake lever - I'll fix those once the oils have a chance to settle, they're still a bit mutable at the moment. Thank you for the reminder on the conjectural intermediate livery - I understand, I just like it. I realise that the other O5 in the work is complete, and so comes with brake levers and the cast iron number/nameplates - so I'll do that this time. Maybe there's room for a V4 with the conjectural livery - a transfer from Farthing? :) 

 

Other than that,  this morning has been the construction of a Poppy's Woodtech jig (all done) and (probably against my better judgement) the commencement of another Woodham wagon kit in the Stephenson Clarke dumb-buffered wagon. Yet again, the etched floor is miles out for the wagon - God alone knows the reason why Roxey have included it. 

 

The small elephant in the room is the lack of meaningful progress on the R-class chassis. I have no excuse, other than the diversion to LBSCR and 00 has deemphasised the construction.  All of my wagons are being/have been built with EM wheels for EMSF, though of course they could be re-gauged to 00, but for the locomotive I'm not so sure. For now, I'm enjoying getting through the backlog of wagon kits - but I sure do prefer scratchbuilding.

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Second O5 is done sans some post-weathering touch-ups and powders:

 

 

While doing this, I understood the first O5 (the pre-built one) had had some pinpoint bearings fitted. Thankfully, the S4 society bearings are drop-ins for the axle-boxes. It also had etched hooks fitted, those in the kit being rather weak. No problem to fit these, but I'm running out of links!

Edited July 9, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Ergh - After I built the first whitemetal wagon kit of the Parry wagon I realised it wasn't going to be something I enjoyed making - but foolishly I had picked up four whitemetal kits at the same time before I discovered the fact. It seem to be entirely the fault of the Roxey/Chatham floor and W-irons - the floor simply doesn't fit being both too wide and too long, and the rocking W-iron's can't rock because there are no corresponding cutouts in the inner faces of the soleobars.

 

I figure for this one I'll just build it rigid rather than trying to fight so hard to get it compensated and with this one down, it leaves just the SER coal wagon left and then I don't think I'll be touching another whitemetal kit for some time.

[wagonman]

On 07/07/2022 at 20:39, Lacathedrale said:

Second O5 is done sans some post-weathering touch-ups and powders:

 

 

While doing this, I understood the first O5 (the pre-built one) had had some pinpoint bearings fitted. Thankfully, the S4 society bearings are drop-ins for the axle-boxes. It also had etched hooks fitted, those in the kit being rather weak. No problem to fit these, but I'm running out of links!

 

You need to remove the redundant V hanger from this side. The brake shaft inner support was a single 'post' just inboard of the brakes. Sorry, terrible description – look for a photo!

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

Ah, darn - I've put cross-rods across the v-hangers of both wagons!  I'll have to sort that out! No big deal, I need to repaint the solebars of the first wagon also, as well as get some muck on there with weathering powders. For now, I'm desperately trying to finish the Stephenson Clarke wagon so I can forget it ever existed :) 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[garethashenden]

22 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Ergh - After I built the first whitemetal wagon kit of the Parry wagon I realised it wasn't going to be something I enjoyed making - but foolishly I had picked up four whitemetal kits at the same time before I discovered the fact. It seem to be entirely the fault of the Roxey/Chatham floor and W-irons - the floor simply doesn't fit being both too wide and too long, and the rocking W-iron's can't rock because there are no corresponding cutouts in the inner faces of the soleobars.

 

I figure for this one I'll just build it rigid rather than trying to fight so hard to get it compensated and with this one down, it leaves just the SER coal wagon left and then I don't think I'll be touching another whitemetal kit for some time.

 

What I would do is throw out the etched parts. Assemble the four sides and then make a styrene sheet floor to fit. Use Bill Bedford's sprung w-irons, they don't need and clearance to rock. I think I did have to grind some of the inside of the solebar for clearance, but not as much.

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks Gareth, the kit was cobbled together with a trimmed floor/etc. and while unsprung appears to roll well. As I said - last time I'm doing one! 

 

I think the real quantum leap is going to come from locomotive scratchbuilding, that really is the next thing I want to tackle...

[Lacathedrale]

Stephenson & Co Wagon #243 complete (sans powder and coupling links):

 

It fought me the whole way and I didn't enjoy it one bit, but it's done.

 

Paint was all Vallejo - neutral grey mixed with pale sand (as all my colours are) for the body. Red leather for the corner washer plates, heavy charcoal for the solebar down. 

 

For this model I experimented a little with my oil technique, instead of pin-washing, I slathered it on as if it were undiluted acrylic - this meant a stronger tint but far fewer visible brush strokes to buff out later. Rather than a cotton bud I used a dry tissue with scrub the sides and inner.

 

The inside was a mixture of German Camo Brown and Neutral Grey - it looks completely wrong on the palette but came out well. my thought for using a darker mix than my usual Pale sand was that the coal dust would have really worked into the wood and would be very dark indeed almost from the get-go.

 

Eagle eyed among you may notice the brake V-hanger is cranked rather than a straight Vee - that's because the original is part of the solebar casting and I snapped it off completely. I decided to avoid the debacle of a whitemetal brake lever and rack and used one from the Cooper Craft O5 kits.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

I figured it was probably a good idea to trial fit the High-Level Jinty chassis to the Vectis SER R-class body. Turns out, it's a bit of a failure. The inside edge of the footplate under the boiler, and the tanks overlap the chassis stretchers. I was given a handy reminder of the fragility of resin trying to carve that away to fit. The EM chassis spacers I have used mean that the chassis itself is too wide to fit in the gap provided in the body, so I would need to carve away and re-build the entire underside. 

 

I'm not actively pursuing an EMSF layout presently, and if I were it would be LCDR rather than SER and so the locomotive only notionally compatible. With that, the above, and the existing chassis challenges has meant my enthusiasm for this particular build has hit rock bottom. It's all going back in the proving drawer and may not return.

 

I am strongly considering re-gauging the Victorian EMSF stock for use on the Edwardian 00 layout, and to tackle my kit and scratchbuilding itch for Victoriana in some other way.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[hayfield]

It might be worth looking at the Southeastern Finecast  R1 chassis which perhaps may be more suited to the loco you have. Branchlines also supply their own R1 chassis and for those with a Hornby Dublo/ Wrenn body, Branchlines also supply a body detailing parts for the plastic body

 

I think the SEF chassis has the correct wheelbase, might be worth speaking with Branchlines ( I assume it also has the correct wheelbase). I have Branchlines P Class chassis and like the R1 is very keenly prices and of a great design

 

I think whilst Wills Finecast used both the Jinty and R1 chassis widely in times past to power body kits, it involved compromises to the body. Recently I tried fitting a Terrier etched chassis to a GER 3D printed body (it is designed to fit the Hornby Terrier chassis). Looked awful but when fitted to a J69 chassis looks the part, it involved a few minor alterations to the body. 

[Lacathedrale]

The SEF chassis may have the correct wheelbase, but the print I've got is designed for the Jinty wheelbase. It's going in the drawer for now. @Regularity has suggested a Brigand-class 0-4-2 might be a good shout, and so if the mood strikes me I'm inclined to agree.

 

For now I'm working on my Gauge 3 live-steam traction engine build, but  I finally got around to putting some undercoat on my Victorian LBSCR D8 covered wagon:

 

 

The shape of the brake block is wrong, but honestly I'm OK with that! I'm going to try to use my airbrush on this one to get some variety of colour over it. We'll see how that pans out...

[Lacathedrale]

I've decided to pre-shade the van, which is quite over the top. The idea is that a translucent base coat will have some variation in tone when it goes on over the top and the effect will be much more subtle:

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Not my best work, honestly - but this one rather than being a keeper is going straight on to a buyer who was very happy with it as it is - he didn't even want an oil wash!

 

[Regularity]

Let’s Buy Some Coaches?

[Lacathedrale]

I'm working up a Stroudley D37 6w First from a Ratio GWR 4w Composite.  An example of this type (as-built in Mahogany) is seen at the Bluebell here.

 

Though it has the correct panelling and overall length, there are some small compromises on the Ratio coach - the middle compartment is slightly too wide, the roof should really be elliptical instead of three arc - but most egregiously it is a 4w rather than 6w, which will need addressing (see later).

 

My carriage is represents a 1903 gas-lighting conversion, where it would have been repainted into Billinton Umber & Off-White.

 

The first steps were to fix the GWR features of the coach. First, to straighten out the carriage ends, cut a notch out with a razor saw and pack with styrene sheet, carved and filed to shape. The moulding can be reinstated using strips of 10 thou styrene sheet. Next, the GWR grab irons need to be carved off - no secret but gentle scalpel work. Etched or wire grab irons should (will be) used to replace them.

 

I have added compartments to the coach using 1mm styrene sheet, and even less visibly I have painting the inside in middle-brown with red seats.

 

The outside of the coach is currently painted in a burnt umber colour from Railmatch - I think it might be SR Freight Brown - but since the label on the pot has come off, I will compare/contrast with Vallejo German Camo Black Brown and use that in future. If it's wildly different in hue then I'll overpaint the existing brown but based on my experience with oil washes (of more anon) I'm not expecting to need to.

 

The panels are painted in a mixture as on the prototype, of white (pale sand) and umber (as above).  I'm pleased it looks a little distinct from GWR chocolate and cream, but not by much. The roof would have been white leaded paint initially, but the reaction to coal smoke sulphur would have turned it grey over time. Since the last time this was repainted was 8 years before the layout is set, I feel like it should be at least a mid-grey colour, likely pale sand (my warm-white substitute) dirtied down with neutral grey. 

 

 

That brings us up to date - it still has a fair few steps remaining: not least the fitting of the central axle. I'm hoping to achieve this with an etched W-iron (nominally for a GC wagon W-iron but dimensionally similar), with white-metal GWR 6' springs and axle-boxes to match the existing ones. I understand a rigid 6w chassis would typically be a problem but the fixed wheelbase is very small, ~80mm. If it ends up being an issue then I can look at an inside-bearing arrangement for the middle axle.

 

The carriage also needs headstock detailing i.e. the fitting of coupling hooks, screw couplings, buffers, maybe safety chains. I'll have to check the braking arrangements but I also have brake hangers/shoes and Westinghouse brake hoses. Finally, it needs a coat of Klear and transfers (courtesy of @ianmaccormac hopefully) before being finished with some gloss varnish and an oil wash of my usual umber/black that I can buff off the panels with a cotton bud. It can't be grimy, but I think it would be reasonable for ingrained smoke, soot and dirt to tint the colours.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[t-b-g]

28 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

I'm working up a Stroudley D37 6w First from a Ratio GWR 4w Composite.  An example of this type (as-built in Mahogany) is seen at the Bluebell here.

 

Though it has the correct panelling and overall length, there are some small compromises on the Ratio coach - the middle compartment is slightly too wide, the roof should really be elliptical instead of three arc - but most egregiously it is a 4w rather than 6w, which will need addressing (see later).

 

My carriage is represents a 1903 gas-lighting conversion, where it would have been repainted into Billinton Umber & Off-White.

 

The first steps were to fix the GWR features of the coach. First, to straighten out the carriage ends, cut a notch out with a razor saw and pack with styrene sheet, carved and filed to shape. The moulding can be reinstated using strips of 10 thou styrene sheet. Next, the GWR grab irons need to be carved off - no secret but gentle scalpel work. Etched or wire grab irons should (will be) used to replace them.

 

I have added compartments to the coach using 1mm styrene sheet, and even less visibly I have painting the inside in middle-brown with red seats.

 

The outside of the coach is currently painted in a burnt umber colour from Railmatch - I think it might be SR Freight Brown - but since the label on the pot has come off, I will compare/contrast with Vallejo German Camo Black Brown and use that in future. If it's wildly different in hue then I'll overpaint the existing brown but based on my experience with oil washes (of more anon) I'm not expecting to need to.

 

The panels are painted in a mixture as on the prototype, of white (pale sand) and umber (as above).  I'm pleased it looks a little distinct from GWR chocolate and cream, but not by much. The roof would have been white leaded paint initially, but the reaction to coal smoke sulphur would have turned it grey over time. Since the last time this was repainted was 8 years before the layout is set, I feel like it should be at least a mid-grey colour, likely pale sand (my warm-white substitute) dirtied down with neutral grey. 

 

 

That brings us up to date - it still has a fair few steps remaining: not least the fitting of the central axle. I'm hoping to achieve this with an etched W-iron (nominally for a GC wagon W-iron but dimensionally similar), with white-metal GWR 6' springs and axle-boxes to match the existing ones. I understand a rigid 6w chassis would typically be a problem but the fixed wheelbase is very small, ~80mm. If it ends up being an issue then I can look at an inside-bearing arrangement for the middle axle.

 

The carriage also needs headstock detailing i.e. the fitting of coupling hooks, screw couplings, buffers, maybe safety chains. I'll have to check the braking arrangements but I also have brake hangers/shoes and Westinghouse brake hoses. Finally, it needs a coat of Klear and transfers (courtesy of @ianmaccormac hopefully) before being finished with some gloss varnish and an oil wash of my usual umber/black that I can buff off the panels with a cotton bud. It can't be grimy, but I think it would be reasonable for ingrained smoke, soot and dirt to tint the colours.

 

 

 

At the risk of stating the flipping obvious, have you checked that 14mm carriage wheels fit in the wagon sized W irons? You may also find that the ride height may be 1mm out too as the axle centres on wagons are naturally lower than those on carriages with bigger wheels.

 

I found out the hard way once that they don't but of course W iron design varies from one manufacturer to another so you may be better off.

 

I use the W irons sold by Comet/Wizard models which are designed to take 14mm carriage wheels.

 

[ianmaccormac]

There are also carriage w-irons in the EB Models range. See 

EB Models w-irons

and the carriage ones are available, as is the carriage transfers when I return.

Cheers

Ian

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, ianmaccormac said:

There are also carriage w-irons in the EB Models range. See 

EB Models w-irons

and the carriage ones are available, as is the carriage transfers when I return.

Cheers

Ian

 

Even better! Proper LBSCR types. It is surprising (to some anyway) just how much variety there is in the design of such a component.

 

Good news about the carriage transfers too. Can you even give a bit of a guesstimate as to how long it might be before William can get hold of some?

[Regularity]

30 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

It is surprising (to some anyway) just how much variety there is in the design of such a component.

I suspect that the vast majority don’t care!

[t-b-g]

19 minutes ago, Regularity said:

I suspect that the vast majority don’t care!

 

You are quite right. There are many parts on the railways where many folk will be happy with a "near enough generic" version.

 

It is one of those things where, if there was only one type of etch available, I would happily use it. I wouldn't bother scratchbuilding them or seeing about getting them etched specially.

 

If there are several different ones available and one is the correct pattern for whatever I am building, then why not use the correct one?

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

@t-b-g I figured I would pad under the W-iron if the ride height wasn't correct, but annoyingly I've just put an order in to Wizard for some other bits and he doesn't like to tack on items post hoc. 

 

The wheels did look like they'd fit, but it may be that the fold up sides might interfere. I think @ianmaccormac's W-irons maybe make more sense.

 

Worth bearing in mind that the carriage already has GWR-type W-irons on the outside axles and i've got no intention of fitting a cleminson underframe...

[hayfield]

14 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

You are quite right. There are many parts on the railways where many folk will be happy with a "near enough generic" version.

 

It is one of those things where, if there was only one type of etch available, I would happily use it. I wouldn't bother scratchbuilding them or seeing about getting them etched specially.

 

If there are several different ones available and one is the correct pattern for whatever I am building, then why not use the correct one?

 

 

 

This is the norm, just look at the track most modellers use. In a lot of cases its not even near enough

 

On a positive side a great bit of inspiring modelling in the thread

[Lacathedrale]

Ratio GWR Composite to Billinton D95

I've found something a bit annoying out about the carriage above after re-reading the LBSCR Carriage books:

 

The model pictured above is a 28' foot, four-wheeled umber-and-white carriage that has gas lighting - and I've realised it's an inadvertent blend of a Stroudley D30 (4w suburban first) and a D37 (6w mainline first)!  If it's to be a true D30 it should be in mahogany (i.e. as it was just before I repainted the bloody thing), and if it's a D37 it should have a middle axle fitted but won't need repainting again.

 

So, I COULD fit a middle axle to make it into a D37, but most straightforward is to use it to represent a 4w Billinton 4 Compt. First.  to D95 - of which it is a good match. Technically the D95 should be short-buffered for close-coupling, but I'm going to take a liberty on this one.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

First pass at the Billinton 8 Compt. All Third (D67) - I have added accumulators and a westinghouse brake reservoir under the solebar, and a single queen post. I have also set up the compartments.

 

This one is going to be painted in the 1911 all-over Umber scheme. Unfortunately I have neither the Vallejo German Camo Black Brown paint, nor the 8' bogies required to take this any further yet....

 

 

This kit was one part-built in the box-o-Ratio and came with the wrong roof - but the roofs of the electrically lit D67's were quite plain: just a single cable conduit down the middle and ventilators over the end (smoking) compartments - so easy to fill the holes and fit my own.

 

I'm trying to use Vallejo Plastic Putty but I'm having no end of trouble with it - it shrinks, it wicks away from holes, and it takes hours to dry to a sandable finish. I guess I just need more patience.