the future of the hobby

[JohnR]

16 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Our old 1980s themed EM gauge layout "Walford Town" was built by people mainly interested in pre-grouping P4. Since they finished this they moved on and built Clarendon. On that basis, I'm not sure being perfectly aligned is essential, but being open-minded. If you must have a perfect fit, then you need a 1-person club of your own, and you ARE probably the "grumpy old git" mentioned in the OP!

 

I think a club environment is ideal for doing something a little different. My own modelling at home (such as it is), will necessarily be focused on what *I* want. But that doesnt mean I'm not interested in dabbling in something like pre-grouping, or privatisation era Multiple Units. 

[Dungrange]

1 hour ago, SouthernRegionSteam said:

1. The biggest issue I see with clubs is not actually related to temperament or age of its members, but their commitment. Whilst I accept my experience is limited, at every event, it would be the same 3 or 4 people that did all the work. Most members never bothered to even turn up, let alone help out. I suppose a fair amount of people will join (much like a forum I suppose) almost exclusively to learn and not really add much (i.e. lurking on forums). I suppose also that there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it becomes a tedious affair for everyone else then.

 

Whilst your experience may be limited, I think what you highlight is very common.  It's the same in my own club, with a limited number of individuals far more active in layout construction and maintenance than the majority: I'll place myself in the 'lazy' half of the club.  However, whilst that may seem 'unfair' to those who contribute most, I don't think this is the right way to look at the operation of a model railway club. 

 

Speaking from experience, we need all of our members, including those who only turn up occasionally for a cup of tea or to show off their latest toy, and those who simply sit around talking every week, with little interest in actually building anything.  Basically as a club we have a number of overheads - rent, electricity and water charges, insurance, etc.  Based on our current membership subscription and our current overheads, we need a minimum of about 20, maybe nearer 25, members to cover these overheads.  Then we need more money to pay for materials to actually build layouts, so we need another maybe half dozen or so member subscriptions to cover these costs each year.  That therefore means that without having somewhere between 25 and 30 members at any point in time, my club would not be sustainable financially.

 

Therefore, if the club committee were to adopt a policy of setting some sort of minimum commitment level and turfing out all the lazy b*****s who don't meet whatever threshold we set, whether than be attendance or modelling output, then subscriptions would have to rise significantly - perhaps to the point where some of the more committed members could no longer afford to be members.  It should also be borne in mind, that some members may be relatively new to the hobby and don't feel that they are as skilled as some of the other existing members and therefore don't appear to contribute much.  They may in turn become more active on the next layout.

 

I guess the same is true on RMWeb, where even the lurkers and occasional posters have their place.  The financing of this website relies on advertising and what advertisers are willing to pay depends on the popularity of the site.   All the lurkers who read these threads but never contribute directly are still pushing up the site statistics for the number of members / unique visitors and that in turn helps attract advertisers to pay the running costs.  There is nothing inherently wrong with that.

 

Ultimately, attending a model railway club is supposed to be enjoyable - it is not a job.  We just don't always define enjoyable in the same way. 

[jcm@gwr]

I would agree about the commitment level, but I think all clubs (and probably all

other groups, organisations, etc.) suffer from/are subject to the 80/20 rule.

In other words, 80% of the work is done by 20% of the members!

[sir douglas]

i do agree that the title of the thread should be "the future of the clubs" not the "hobby" but thats what came to mind at the time, its what i meant but of course it is my fault for writing that, and theres no point changing it now

[Ross34]

Railway modelling in the UK is unique in that its split into so many "factions" or "specialist interest groups" - 00, 00FS(?), P4, EM, N, 2mmFS, TT, 009, 7mm, Scaleseven etc.. - which has the effect of diluting the "talent pool"

This is where the Americans IMHO have done it right, most (not all but most) of the hobby in the US is geared towards HO and as a result the standard of modelling, the trade support (inc magazines, forums etc) and the ready availability of quality models reflects that. Then there is the free-mo concept that I honestly think would work in the UK given a chance but its almost a crying certainty it will never happen because IMO the hobby in this country isn't receptive to radical change.

As to the notion that the hobby is dying - I don't think it is but its certainly nowhere near as big as it once was - not if the number of exhibition visitors are a yardstick. I used to go to almost all the major shows in the northwest and have noticed the crowds have become a lot smaller in recent years.

[Dungrange]

1 hour ago, Ross34 said:

As to the notion that the hobby is dying - I don't think it is but its certainly nowhere near as big as it once was - not if the number of exhibition visitors are a yardstick. I used to go to almost all the major shows in the northwest and have noticed the crowds have become a lot smaller in recent years.

 

Is attendance at model railway shows a good yardstick for the health of the hobby?  Back in the 1990's I used to attend several 'local' Scottish shows each year as a paying attendee, but I've been to very few in recent years apart from the ones where I have been an exhibitor.  Twenty years ago, the only way to see layouts was either photographs in the pages of the Railway Modeller or by attending a local model railway exhibition in search of inspiration.  However, the internet has changed the options available to those in search of ideas.  There are now many layout threads on forums such as RMWeb which are full of photographs and you'll find many videos on YouTube showing all the layouts (or at least the vloggers favourites) at a recent model railway show.  I'm not saying that watching a YouTube video is necessarily as good as seeing a layout 'in the flesh' but for some of those just looking for ideas, it may well be as good an option: it costs less and doesn't involve any travelling.

 

I don't have any data on attendance at model railway exhibitions, so can't really confirm whether attendances as falling as a whole across the UK or state by how much, but I'm not convinced that falling attendances at model railway exhibitions necessarily means that the hobby is contracting.

[sir douglas]

the numbers for our exhibition are dropping every year, it wont be long before the thresh hold is hit and we cant maintain it

 

 

this isnt a rally cry or saying we should go out be some sort of club police, no im just rambling through the keyboard, what im saying may just be a load of garbage (let if know if you fall asleep) just discussing theoretical options at best.

 

now that we have discussed the negatives and some positives, what about the future as it stands?, the problem wont go away on its own, or will it, the problem stems from how fast society changes, mentality and views of politics, society and sexuality means the generations have very little in common. having different views or beliefs on a subject can cause disagreement, the grumpy's may have a mindset from decades ago that has now been left far behind and they are out of place in modern society which might make them unhappy of world they dont understand. So, could the current grumpy's be just of this generation? the next generation such as those who are currently middle aged and those of us younger than that may grow old with a different mentality on the world after growing up in a different society with different views and be more open minded and tolerant of the younger generations

 

so what if it doesnt go away on its own, i dont want to wait 40 years to find out and have done nothing about it. maybe politely and friendly discuss with the grumpy's and the bossy's about how their actions are detrimental to the club?, try to ask the newbies what else it was turning them away? just sitting here typing doesnt do anything about it, but what can we do if some of us cant get the confidence to speak to the new comers and some of you near physically cant speak to strangers or hold conversation which i understand, i understand that i'm the worst one here saying all of this but probably wont strike up the courage to speak out and be the person that starts a disagreement with the grumpy or bossy that we would rather ignore and keep the status quo

 

I do feel uncomfortable sticking my neck out saying all of this  but its an important subject regardless, for the future of the clubs

[enginelane]

Err the numbers for the Wakefield show have been over 2000 for the past 3 years. Numbers were in total slightly down compared to the 60 th. Year of the club show. Number of families since a change in admission charges was made have increased over the past three years. 

[sir douglas]

happy to be corrected, wasnt malcolm was saying something along the lines of at least going near the thresh hold a few years ago or am i mis remembering

[Dungrange]

2 hours ago, sir douglas said:

what I'm saying may just be a load of garbage.

 

Yes. I agree.

 

2 hours ago, sir douglas said:

So, could the current grumpy's be just of this generation?

 

NO.

 

You are correct that technological changes have resulted in other societal changes, which mean that each generation has different life experiences and expectations.  You are also correct that some of the older generation may feel left behind by these changes because things are not how they used to be.  Some of the things that they learned at school or during employment are now no longer relevant or have been superseded by different techniques.  They are unfamiliar with the latest best practise.  However, the pace of technological change will continue, if not accelerate, and the differing life experiences between generations will continue.

 

The generation who are currently middle aged (ie me) and the younger generation (ie you) will definitely produce their own 'grumpy old gits' in the future.  The idea that somehow society will become more open minded and tolerant is a little idealistic. It won't happen.  I know I'm certainly far more of a cynical old b***** than I was in my 20's and I've not yet hit 50.  What will I be like when I hit 80!  That's driven by life experiences and those will continue.

 

However, I think the important point is not so much that 'grumpy gits' are perhaps more likely to be from the older generation, but that most of the older generation are not 'grumpy'.  Many are very friendly, helpful and keen to pass on their skills and expertise.  Just because some of the younger generation may not understand the experiences of the older generation doesn't mean that its the older person who is wrong.  For every 'grumpy old git' there is a younger 'know it all' - the sort of person who thinks they know best - an opinion that they have formed about themselves with little experience.  The problem under discussion is far more about individual personality traits than being specifically about those of a particular generation. 

 

2 hours ago, sir douglas said:

Maybe politely and friendly discuss with the grumpy's and the bossy's about how their actions are detrimental to the club?, try to ask the newbies what else it was turning them away?

 

It would appear that the answer to this is 'yes'.  However the approach required in dealing with those with a potentially toxic attitude is not so much a 'sling them out' dictatorial stance as suggested in the opening post, but one in which you are able to highlight how their actions are detrimental to the club.  The problem is finding the right person to have that discussion with them.  If the problem individual is indeed one of the older members, then it probably needs to be one of the older members that has that discussion with them - ie they are more likely to listen to someone of their own generation than being told off by the 'young guy'.

 

Understanding why some people leave or are put off joining, would be worthwhile, but I'll suggest that for everyone that highlights that they are leaving because of 'grumpy', you'll also find several that give other reasons including the other club members not being friendly enough.  You'll also find that some leave because of family, new job, or the club not using DCC or building a layout that aligns with their interests.  Whilst you may feel that you can't deal with grumpy, you definitely can be 'Mr Friendly', if you try.   Unless you have a particularly toxic individual to deal with, the future of the club rests with ensuring that you always try your best to be helpful and try to encourage others to do the same.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Dungrange

[Dungrange]

1 hour ago, sir douglas said:

What can we do if some of us cant get the confidence to speak to the new comers and some of you near physically cant speak to strangers or hold conversation which i understand, i understand that i'm the worst one here saying all of this but probably wont strike up the courage to speak out and be the person that starts a disagreement with the grumpy or bossy that we would rather ignore and keep the status quo

 

There is two separate issues here.  Firstly the issues around not having the confidence or being uncomfortable talking to strangers is something that those individuals have to tackle themselves.  That is their 'problem' and they need to try to overcome those fears, insecurities or social anxieties themselves.  You can't do anything about those who are too shy to come along to the club.  However, what you can do is try to be friendly and welcoming to those who come though the door of your club room.  If you see a stranger in the club, make an effort to speak to them: try to make them feel welcome - don't ignore them and pretend its someone else's job to speak to them.  A stranger is only a stranger on your first meeting.  Once you've made the effort to speak to them, they are no longer a stranger - you already know their name, and something about their interests.  I guess the point is that not being comfortable speaking to strangers is not uncommon.  However, as a club member, you are in an environment with which you are familiar, surrounded by many people whom you know.  The visitor on the other hand will be in an unfamiliar environment surrounded by several people, none of whom they know.  If like you, they are not comfortable talking to strangers, then it will be much more difficult for them than it is for you.  That's the reason why you should try to be the one to initiate the introduction.

 

As for 'grumpy' or 'bossy', you shouldn't be looking to 'start a disagreement'.  If you notice that someone's attitude is a problem, then you don't need to be the one to challenge them, but neither do you need to simply ignore the problem.  You need to highlight the problem to someone else.  For example, if the 'grumpy old git' who seems to be causing a bit of friction, happens to be the club secretary, it may be better to highlight your concerns to the club Chairman (or whichever office bearer you feel most at ease speaking to).  It's possible that the Chairman already knows that the secretary can be a bit bossy, but just ignores it because 'that's how he is'.  However, by drawing the fact that his behaviour is perceived by you and potentially some of the other members as a problem, is more likely to make the Chairman think again and maybe have an appropriate word.  Ideally your Chairman would be the sort of man who would pretend that the issue you have highlighted to him is something that he himself has noticed rather than simply say to the secretary that "sir Douglas has been moaning to me about your behaviour, do you think you could tone it down a bit".

[Phil Parker]

2 hours ago, sir douglas said:

the numbers for our exhibition are dropping every year, it wont be long before the thresh hold is hit and we cant maintain it

 

Yet Wycrail, Warley, Peterborough and many others have been up thanks I suspect to the GMRC effect. 

 

 

[Philou]

Oo-er .... so many many things to which I can relate in the posts above. Do I tell all or do I clam up as I usually do? Shall I procrastinate a while longer? I was told years ago that I was indecisive but now I'm not sure .............

 

I am in the age bracket that could fall into the 'grumpy old git' range .......... I don't think I have become grumpy but less patient, let me explain: Once fully retired and you're not involved in the daily hum-drum of work and home-life you to tend to ponder a bit especially as the realisation is that the biological clock has stopped somewhere in the future and I don't know when zero hour is and therefore time (for me) is of the essence, and things need to be done quickly - but in aging, the body and mind slows up even by just a little and that tends to make me less patient.

 

As I mentioned above, I joined a club here in France, and within a couple of months I had become the Treasurer (I think I mis-understood the topic under vote - nah not really, same old, nobody wanted the post).

 

Why did I join? Well, I want a layout (still want one but things have got in the way) and having no space suitable a club seemed the best way - even though they do H0 and I'm 00. But WHY did I join - I'm friendly but introverted and my brother thinks I may be on the spectrum (probably true, as, as a child I would burtle out things overheard or seen, much to the dismay of my parents - oops). I'm no good at public speaking - wobbly voice, dry throat and impossible to string two thoughts together without six others wanting to get out (met him before?) - why then did I become an expert witness at planning public inquiries - have no idea, didn't like it, but I was quite good at it. Being part of the club has allowed me to express myself more openly.

 

Where do I fit in the club? We're all different and I have my legged pulled more than others due 'ee eez zee eengleesh' but that I don't mind at all - nothing bad at all and I can give as good as I get . I don't really offer to help on the layouts as most of the others are working on their modules - so each does their own thing. I generally do ballasting as most of the ballasting they do is pretty grim not too good - looks like budgie grit (Trill was the stuff IIRC) and not shouldered properly (you get the idea) so I sieve builders sand at home and take it in and offer to help in that way.

 

In turning to membership, I said in an earlier post that we had problems with some of the 'yoof' that were members, but the club as is has no-one that I could say that is a 'character' and we all rub along fairly well. However, because the 'yoof' left the club and formed their own, our club fell out with the overarching association and we have gone our own way - but we're struggling financially.

 

(For clarification: Over here you can create an 'Association' under the Law of 1901 where you can be a 'for-profit' organisation. The 'Association' can have 'Sections' within it - gardening, modelling, pottery, walking club - and the such-like. We were a section and we were the only section that brought real money to the Association - but the money that we generated was never ours as it belonged - legally - to the Association. When we left as a section to form an Association in our own right - we left with nothing except the layout and stock.)

 

I was surprised to see further up, weekly subs of £10 whether you turn up or not - ours are €35 per year (€20 for the juniors)!! I couldn't recommend putting the fees up as we're in a rather rural area here and the majority of the members are retired ex-railway personnel and not that flush.

 

The AGM is this coming weekend and we're organising a show for October - that's going to be fun financially. Current estimates are that we shall need a budget of about €7000 and I've got €7 in loose change in the moneybox - any tips?

 

Well - there we are. I feel soooo much better for getting that out. Back to the OP: It's definitely not the lack of enthusiasm that will kill the hobby if this thread is a barometer, it'll be keeping the member base strong and interested - IMHO.

 

My musings on the keyboard tonight.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

[Dungrange]

15 minutes ago, Philou said:

I was surprised to see further up, weekly subs of £10 whether you turn up or not - ours are €35 per year (€20 for the juniors)!! I couldn't recommend putting the fees up as we're in a rather rural area here and the majority of the members are retired ex-railway personnel and not that flush.

 

The AGM is this coming weekend and we're organising a show for October - that's going to be fun financially. Current estimates are that we shall need a budget of about €7000 and I've got €7 in loose change in the moneybox - any tips?

 

Any tips?   ... rob a bank!

 

Seriously, your subscription fee multiplied by the number of club members has to cover your club running costs.  If that's not the case, then the subscription fees need to rise.  That's the harsh reality.

 

I have to admit that I was also a bit surprised at a subscription fee of £10 per week (£520 per annum) but €35 per annum is very low.  At my club, our subscription fee is currently £12 per month (£144 per annum), but at our last Annual General Meeting (AGM) the office bearers secured the agreement of the membership to increase that to up to £25 per month (£300 per year) to be implemented the month after we sign a new lease.  The problem that we have is that our previous landlord never renewed our lease when it expired in 2016 (although we continued to pay rent) and then the property was subsequently sold at auction in 2018 (without us knowing).  Our new landlord has indicated that he intends to redevelop the site, in which case we will be evicted, but I've no idea when - he hasn't yet applied for planning permission or any of the other necessary paperwork, so it may be quite a while.  At the moment we continue to pay rent under the terms of the expired lease that we signed with our previous landlord in 2013 to our current landlord, but of course that gives us no security.  We are on the lookout for alternative premises, but almost everything that is vaguely suitable is considerably more than our current rent.

 

Therefore in advance of last years AGM, I had to call an Extraordinary General Meeting (EGM) specifically to discuss subscription levels with the membership.  There was not unanimous agreement to increase the subscription fee to £25 per month, but almost everyone agreed that they would be willing to pay that level of subscription rather than let the club fold - that's what may happen if we can't find premises we can afford.  However, whilst some members indicated that they would be willing to pay more (one member who couldn't attend the EGM indicted to me privately that he thought £40 per month was okay), that was not the majority view.  Some members indicated that they'd struggle to afford £30 per month and anything above that and a significant proportion of the membership indicated that they would leave.  That meeting therefore provided the office bearers with a clear understanding of what we as a club can afford in terms of overheads as we look to the future.  I have no intention of signing the club up to a lease that would result in having to raise the subscription to a level that would result in mass resignations.  However, it's clear that at some point our Treasurer will have to actually increase our subscription levels and has the authority to do so from the last AGM.

 

Sadly, if you only have €7 in the bank, I think you need to look at raising your subscription level to at least €50 per annum.  How you finance an exhibition in October, I have no idea.

[Philou]

It will be the hot topic on Saturday evening - I'm really really looking forward to it - not!

 

The one bright side to it is that - apparently - as all the 'consumables' are local - we get 'tick' and pay the bills after the event. Not a situation I particularly want to pursue but it 'has always been done that way'. I may decide that I don't want to be Hon. Treas. after Saturday . I'll let you know how things turn out.

 

Now where are the nearest banks .............

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

[Philou]

@Dungrange We're in the fortunate position that for the time being we are lodged in the basement of Hon. Chair's home (huge man-cave) so we have no overheads as such excepting insurance to pay, so even though the fees are low there is little movement of money. However, this show will be the acid test.

 

I don't know if it happens in the UK, but over here you can approach the local maire and ask if you can have a 'subvention', likewise from the Prefecture. Be akin to a grant. It'll only be a few 100€, but apparently the maire expects a request and budgets accordingly. IIRC the Prefecture will give up to 1000€. You have to put a business case - the show will be ours - and indicate that you will at least break even, but NOT a loss. We've done the basic calculations and I've got to titivate the table tomorrow to show break even (we've done worst case scenario and can do it on a low turnout of about 600 visitors).

 

Good luck in getting premises - I seem to recall that it was the hardest thing to do in the UK.

 

Philip

[sir douglas]

Dungrange

 

i didnt say that i wanted to start a disagreement but if i spoke to them about it and they get defensive and raised their voice, the rest of the people in the room stop what their doing and watch, it creates a scene and kills the mood which is what im saying that i wouldnt want to do. i dont want to have a falling out with them. they have the right to do what they want and be in the club just as much as anyone else

[sir douglas]

and i retract my statement about our exhibition now i am better informed by PM, it was declining sort of but is doing much better in these last few years

[Reorte]

Maybe related, maybe not, but there have been the odd few high profile news stories recently-ish that don't paint the hobby in quite the same negative manner as would've once been the case. So perhaps there's some hope there.

[Phil Parker]

11 hours ago, Dungrange said:

Seriously, your subscription fee multiplied by the number of club members has to cover your club running costs.  If that's not the case, then the subscription fees need to rise.  That's the harsh reality.

 

I've had this discussion over the exhibition barrier a few times. Clubs who charge virtually nothing, have no cash in the bank and are very vulnerable to losing their premises. When I point out I pay £18 a month they are horrified, but realistically that's what you need to do. Our hobby demands space and space costs money. Even if you get rate relief etc., there's still a lot of other bills to pay.

[sir douglas]

walking down to the club last night i was thinking on a different slant to the subject.

 

is it just us here in this period of time that wants to keep our physical clubs, in these current generations that prefer face to face contact rather than online or messaging, many of the younger generations prefer doing everything through hand held devices and laptops. Could there be a time in several decades to come when there isnt enough people left wanting to meet up in person in a club and future generations would all rather meet up online as we are doing on this forum. the problem of getting newcomers and keeping the clubs going is only a problem to us because we to want the clubs. Adding to that, not meeting in person removes the problem of the grumpy and bossy

[Dungrange]

On 06/01/2020 at 10:26, sir douglas said:

I didn't say that I wanted to start a disagreement but if I spoke to them about it and they get defensive and raised their voice, the rest of the people in the room stop what their doing and watch, it creates a scene and kills the mood which is what I'm saying that I wouldn't want to do. I don't want to have a falling out with them. They have the right to do what they want and be in the club just as much as anyone else.

 

Okay, but it doesn't really change my response.  Let's just say that the 'problem individual' is called Tom, he's 72 and retired from work, been a member of the club for 35 years and is currently the club secretary.  You're right, it's highly likely that Tom will become a bit defensive if you, someone who is 50 years his junior and weren't even born when he became a member of the club, challenges him on his behaviour.  That's a natural human response.  However, the point I was trying to make is that you can do something, without actually being the one to directly challenge his behaviour.  You just need to speak to someone who is perhaps better placed to talk to Tom.  Perhaps that should be Dick or Harry. 

 

Tom, Dick and Harry are all of the same generation and have all been members of the club for over 30 years.  At the same stage of life, they can all relate to one another and have grown to accept their differences over the last three decades.  Dick and Harry may both know that Tom has a bit of an attitude, but over the 30 years that they have known him, they've just come to accept him for who he is.  That means that they don't 'see' the 'problem' until it is brought to their attention.  However, because they are of the same generation, they are probably able to empathise with Tom's attitude.  They can therefore start by empathising with Tom, pointing out that they also share some of his frustrations with the attitude of some of the younger members (or whatever makes Tom 'grumpy').  They can then lead onto making an observation that whilst they agree with Tom's frustrations, they have also noticed that sometimes some of the 'young lads' seems a bit demoralised by his attitude and they've recently heard that a couple of visitors have said that the club wasn't very friendly, so it looks like 'we' (ie Tom, Dick and Harry as a collective), all need to try and be a bit more welcoming and a bit less grumpy.  For example, Tom, can you tone down 'whatever bad traits Tom has'?  We (the collective of Tom, Dick and Harry) just need to put up with the younger members attitudes because we need them for the club to survive.

 

My point is that there is an option that lies between challenging an individual and simply accepting the status quo.  An alternative to discussing with Dick or Harry would be someone who perhaps works in Human Resources (HR) and therefore is perhaps the most experienced at dealing with problem people in the workforce.

[dvdlcs]

Perhaps the future is individuals working on modules (to an agreed standard) at home and occasionally bringing them to a central place to make a really large layout.

 

Although anybody who has worked in the field of integration will know how much 'fun' that can be :-)

[Dungrange]

1 hour ago, sir douglas said:

Is it just us here in this period of time that wants to keep our physical clubs, in these current generations that prefer face to face contact rather than online or messaging, many of the younger generations prefer doing everything through hand held devices and laptops. Could there be a time in several decades to come when there isn't enough people left wanting to meet up in person in a club and future generations would all rather meet up online as we are doing on this forum. the problem of getting newcomers and keeping the clubs going is only a problem to us because we to want the clubs. Adding to that, not meeting in person removes the problem of the grumpy and bossy

 

I think there will always be a desire for physical clubs.  Like most parents, I have problems trying to get my kids to turn off the Wii or X-Box, put down their tablets or leave the computer alone.  Sometimes it does feels that they are addicted to their gadgets, particularly when you announce that it is either time for dinner of time to go to bed.    However both still really want to have their friends round, or go to their friends house, even if it is to sit and play Minecraft on a gaming console.  They both therefore still feel a need for physical company - to talk face-to-face.  I don't think that will ever change.

 

Internet forums like RMWeb have many advantages over attending a physical model railway club.  If I was looking for help with something (eg tweaking CVs on a particular brand of DCC decoder) or information about a particular model or prototype, the chances are in a physical club, there may be only one or two members with the requisite knowledge and they may not be down at the club the next night I attend.  However, post the question on here and I may get several people giving me the information or suggestions that I need within a few hours.  It also removes the need to travel (to the club room) and for those who find social contact with strangers a little awkward, it removes that awkwardness too.

 

However, physical clubs have advantages that can never be provided by internet forums.  RMWeb is not the best place for 'humour' and 'sarcasm', which don't work particularly well - even with emojis.  A lot of communication with others is non-verbal (ie body language and gesticulations) which require face-to-face contact.  I wouldn't rule out some form of video forums overcoming this to some extent in time.

 

However, club's also provide opportunities that an Internet Forum will never be able to provide.  For example, those with limited space at home may make do with shunting plank, but if they are a club member, they can run their stock on a layout that's 30' long.  Most of my stock is only ever run at the club.  There is also the benefits of pooling resources and playing to your strengths.  When building a layout at home, you have to do it all yourself: design the track plan, build the baseboards, lay the track, wire everything up, make the buildings, trees etc and weather the stock.  We all tend to enjoy some aspects of the hobby more than others.  However, with a club project, it is easier to focus on the aspects that we enjoy most and leave whatever we don't like or aren't good at to someone else.

 

There is then the issue of exhibitions and operating a large layout as part of a team.  That requires people to physically be together and to cooperate with one another and you can't do that on-line.  That's probably one of my favourite aspects of the hobby, which is why, in my opinion, there will always be a place for physical clubs.

[TheQ]

I was astonished at the expense  of my club when I joined, £5 a week paid quarterly (or annual),  Coming from my sailing club where it cost £100 for a family per year, Now £129 for a family from the start of the coming season.

But at the time the subscription only just covered the cost of the building hire, once a full member you have keys so it's available all the time. We have now tripled the membership thanks to open days, held locally and some advertising. But voted to keep the fees the same, as we need it in the bank.

The show we hold is self financing but only with a good sponsor (Thank you Bure Valley Railway). 

 I am not an organiser, I ended up the chairman of a sailing association by accident and absolutely hated the task, I was lucky in having a very good secretary  nearly 1/3 my age.. I will not take such a role again, but if you want a gopher that's me..

 

We have both members layouts and club layouts at the club.   Inheriting  a layout that is at the club and  while I'm still working I'll continue working on that there. It does tend to make me a one man band for the moment. once  retired and having the time to work on my layouts at home, then It'll be time assist club layouts more.

 

We've had members join and leave, some say they are not involved, but then make no effort to get involved, others just come and go and we don't find out why.

 

The future, Well sailing clubs have a hole in the middle, Youngsters who join  are brought by their parents, but then leave as teenagers chasing girls (or boys) and jobs. Only once their own children reach sailing age do they return. Few like me have been able to continue throughout. I see Model railway clubs the same, children often love model railways, bit get involved with life for 20 years or more till they can get back to it