Tony Walker Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) Picked my two DRS 20/3's on Saturday and have to say that Bachman have done a really good job. Just a pity they didn't go the extra mile and fit working marker lights. I've had two sound fitted locos on this occasion. But I would like to ask why do we get swapping directional lights on DCC fitted locos? On the real thing, the lights wouldn't swap around when a loco had to reverse for shunting purposes, so why do decoder programmers always set the lights to reverse when you change direction. And yes before you jump in and say if operated on DC then how would you operate the lights, but this is DCC fitted as such and therefore the opportunity is there for a prototypical set up, so the operator can switch either the front lights on or the rear lights on as necessary when needed to do so. Edited April 19, 2021 by Tony Walker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted April 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 20, 2021 On 19/04/2021 at 09:28, Tony Walker said: Picked my two DRS 20/3's on Saturday and have to say that Bachman have done a really good job. Just a pity they didn't go the extra mile and fit working marker lights. I've had two sound fitted locos on this occasion. But I would like to ask why do we get swapping directional lights on DCC fitted locos? On the real thing, the lights wouldn't swap around when a loco had to reverse for shunting purposes, so why do decoder programmers always set the lights to reverse when you change direction. And yes before you jump in and say if operated on DC then how would you operate the lights, but this is DCC fitted as such and therefore the opportunity is there for a prototypical set up, so the operator can switch either the front lights on or the rear lights on as necessary when needed to do so. The standard default for new decoders is that the two outputs called F0f/F0r, or white/yellow, or FL/RL (and there are other notations) depending on which decoder manufacturer/type, operate with the F0 key in forward and reverse directions respectively. In much the same way that the default address is #3 Many decoders have the ability to map the outputs so they can be directional or not and/or operate with different F key. And there lies the solution to your question. The relevant CV values will depend upon the make of decoder fitted. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 The two latest 20/3s were collected this week from Arcadia Shaw and look absolutely stunning. Always been a fan of big bright orange locos :-) looking forward to running them soon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Walker Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 13 hours ago, newbryford said: The standard default for new decoders is that the two outputs called F0f/F0r, or white/yellow, or FL/RL (and there are other notations) depending on which decoder manufacturer/type, operate with the F0 key in forward and reverse directions respectively. In much the same way that the default address is #3 Many decoders have the ability to map the outputs so they can be directional or not and/or operate with different F key. And there lies the solution to your question. The relevant CV values will depend upon the make of decoder fitted. Mick, It wasn't so much a question as a statement. The Hatton's 66 gives full flexibility on lighting and anyone can then adjust CV's to however they want the lights to operate, giving full independence. I have been modifying lights on locos for years now, as I prefer to be able to switch whichever lights I want on. May need wiring mods along the way, but this is my preference. What I was trying to say is, that nowadays both manufacturer and programmer do not make it easy for folk and that they could so much more, especially with sound, set things up so we don't have the reversing light situation we get, which is none prototypical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted April 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2021 11 hours ago, Tony Walker said: Mick, It wasn't so much a question as a statement. The Hatton's 66 gives full flexibility on lighting and anyone can then adjust CV's to however they want the lights to operate, giving full independence. I have been modifying lights on locos for years now, as I prefer to be able to switch whichever lights I want on. May need wiring mods along the way, but this is my preference. What I was trying to say is, that nowadays both manufacturer and programmer do not make it easy for folk and that they could so much more, especially with sound, set things up so we don't have the reversing light situation we get, which is none prototypical. Tony - I'm with you on the above - but: Manufacturer and programmer make it very easy for those that simply want directional lights. And IME - there's a decent enough number that want that simplicity. As an observation, there are a significant proportion of DCC users that only change the address and nothing else - not even speed and momentum CVs. A sure way to put folk off, is to make it press F1 for this and F2 for that. What the manufacturers should at least be doing - and some are finally starting to do that - is to wire up lights, other than headlights to other function outputs. By all means - keep them reversible as a default within the decoder, but they can then be altered by those that wish to. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_l_jones Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) On 10/04/2021 at 14:39, Hastings Thumper said: Thanks for posting this. I had exactly the same issue with my 20306 which arrived this morning. After a few mins of trial and error with the thickness of the folded paper, it was all sorted and is now an almost silent runner. The transfer appears to be on the wrong door, checking the proto and stock image..... Edited April 22, 2021 by martin_l_jones 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackB95 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, martin_l_jones said: The transfer appears to be on the wrong door, checking the proto and stock image..... Permission to say oh c$ck Colletts have received their order of Compass sound fitted ones, so rather looking forward to getting that up and running very soon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris56057 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 44 minutes ago, martin_l_jones said: The transfer appears to be on the wrong door, checking the proto and stock image..... Just had a look on Flickr at some reference photos and this is indeed correct, the transfer has been placed incorrectly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted April 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 22, 2021 1 hour ago, martin_l_jones said: The transfer appears to be on the wrong door, checking the proto and stock image..... What am I missing? Matches this: 20306 Doors on 20s (the real one) are easily swapped over. Roy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 30 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: What am I missing? Matches this: 20306 Doors on 20s (the real one) are easily swapped over. Roy That photo is of a early livery sample. The production model has the DRS logo on the engine panels, shifted one access panel to the right. The released model has one panel without logo next to the side grill when prototype photos of 20306 and 20307 show the logo as immediately to the right of the bodyside grills on the side with the cab to the left. This only seems to affect the side with the cab to the left. Unfortunately, on the model, you can't swap doors! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Walker Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 13 hours ago, newbryford said: Tony - I'm with you on the above - but: Manufacturer and programmer make it very easy for those that simply want directional lights. And IME - there's a decent enough number that want that simplicity. As an observation, there are a significant proportion of DCC users that only change the address and nothing else - not even speed and momentum CVs. A sure way to put folk off, is to make it press F1 for this and F2 for that. What the manufacturers should at least be doing - and some are finally starting to do that - is to wire up lights, other than headlights to other function outputs. By all means - keep them reversible as a default within the decoder, but they can then be altered by those that wish to. Mick, I would agree with you on this. Yes maybe it's now down to the manufacturers to make the changes with the wiring, so those of us who want independent switchable lights can just change a few CV's and we are away. And as for Hornby's method of wiring, we definitely need that changing, as that's a real pain to change over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted April 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 22, 2021 40 minutes ago, rembrow said: That photo is of a early livery sample. The production model has the DRS logo on the engine panels, shifted one access panel to the right. The released model has one panel without logo next to the side grill when prototype photos of 20306 and 20307 show the logo as immediately to the right of the bodyside grills on the side with the cab to the left. This only seems to affect the side with the cab to the left. Unfortunately, on the model, you can't swap doors! Understood - thanks. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Re the logo issue, I've emailed Bachmann to see if they are aware. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_l_jones Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said: Understood - thanks. Roy Although the other side on all photo's I've seen sees to be on the two central doors, so one side appears correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_l_jones Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) This should help, picture of actual model posted earlier is central, the stock image is one door to left next to grills. The image on the link to the prototype matches the stock image. Edited April 22, 2021 by martin_l_jones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 I've had a very quick response from Bachmann. They have advised that they have recently been made aware of the error, that it is not what Bachmann expect and are investigating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted April 22, 2021 Moderators Share Posted April 22, 2021 A note from Bachmann. Quote We have become aware of an issue regarding the positioning of the DRS logo on the Bachmann Branchline Class 20/3 No. 20306 – this relates to item Nos 35-125 and 35-125SF and affects one side of the model. We would like to apologise to our valued consumers for this issue, this is clearly not the standard that should be expected of a Bachmann product. As we have only recently become aware of this issue, we are in the process of investigating and therefore further information will be provided once we have established how we will be moving forward with this matter. Please be assured, Bachmann are committed to resolving this issue to your satisfaction. 3 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_l_jones Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 56 minutes ago, rembrow said: I've had a very quick response from Bachmann. They have advised that they have recently been made aware of the error, that it is not what Bachmann expect and are investigating. I wouldn't want be the person who signed production off...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, martin_l_jones said: I wouldn't want be the person who signed production off...... I would imagine that similar to the Dapol Class 68 first DRS compass livery models, where there was a mispositioning of the logo printing, this will need to have new bodies made. Edited April 22, 2021 by rembrow 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted April 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, martin_l_jones said: This should help, picture of actual model posted earlier is central, the stock image is one door to left next to grills. The image on the link to the prototype matches the stock image. Freudien slip perhaps, its good for the early numbered 20/3’s...upto 305 (flickr url)- 20301,2&3... Edited April 22, 2021 by adb968008 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, adb968008 said: Freudien slip perhaps, its good for the early numbered 20/3’s...upto 305 (flickr url)- 20301,2&3... Unfortunately I gave renumbered one of my two as 20307, which has the same position for the logo as 20306 - doh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted April 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, rembrow said: Unfortunately I gave renumbered one of my two as 20307, which has the same position for the logo as 20306 - doh. The earlier ones arent quite the same though, the screen wash jets, headlights and jumper socket are in slightly different positions... otherwise it would be an easy job. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted April 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, adb968008 said: The earlier ones arent quite the same though, the screen wash jets, headlights and jumper socket are in slightly different positions... otherwise it would be an easy job. NRN roof pods/mounting are also in a quite different positions between the two batches. Edited April 22, 2021 by newbryford 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 On 12/04/2021 at 08:59, Eden Road TMD said: I got a message from them the other day, they are due imminently. There are some available sound fitted here: https://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=253_66&product_id=106 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRAILRAGE Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 Been Running mine with a Kibri NEM Screw Link Coupler as they'll only ever run as a pair on my layout. They don't work with any other DRS Loco I have and as I'll never go DCC I may well make a few Non powered Loco's to Triple head with. I have a Spare Vitrains 37 body and a spare Bachmann First Gen 37/4 Chassis frame to mount it on but will need to cut the Buffer beams off and fix to the Body due to the Length. Most Likely use Hornby non Powered 37 Bogies with to run it on . MMMM there's a thought! Cheers Trailrage 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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