Middleton Top and the C&HPR

[Middlepeak]

I think it's the other way round. Empties were returned to Parsley Hay so they could be worked to the Prestwich Intake Quarry at Middleton Top for loading. They would then go back to Parsley Hay as fulls for distribution elsewhere.

 

There is evidence that the Ashbourne Line was used for ballast traffic from the Peak District through to the Midlands, although the photo I have to substantiate this shows Mermaids rather than Gannets.

[Tortuga]

1 hour ago, Middlepeak said:

I think it's the other way round. Empties were returned to Parsley Hay so they could be worked to the Prestwich Intake Quarry at Middleton Top for loading. They would then go back to Parsley Hay as fulls for distribution elsewhere.

 

There is evidence that the Ashbourne Line was used for ballast traffic from the Peak District through to the Midlands, although the photo I have to substantiate this shows Mermaids rather than Gannets.

Interesting, though that would make sense as most of the photos of Gannets I’ve seen (from the group and from Jay) on the line are at locations between Parsley Hay and Middleton Top.

 

I’ve not seen a photo of Mermaids on the Ashbourne line itself, but I think there’s a photo of some at Hillhead in one of the Foxline books. The only photo I’ve seen of ballast working on the Ashbourne line is this one from the W J Sutherland collection:

 

http://sutherland.davenportstation.org.uk/aaprint/man.html#ash-62-10

 

which shows a train mainly of Catfish, at least three Trout and possibly one Gannet plus two ballast brakes passing through Parsley Hay en-route to Macclesfield in 1962.
 

[Rowsley17D]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

Interesting, though that would make sense as most of the photos of Gannets I’ve seen (from the group and from Jay) on the line are at locations between Parsley Hay and Middleton Top.

 

I’ve not seen a photo of Mermaids on the Ashbourne line itself, but I think there’s a photo of some at Hillhead in one of the Foxline books. The only photo I’ve seen of ballast working on the Ashbourne line is this one from the W J Sutherland collection:

 

http://sutherland.davenportstation.org.uk/aaprint/man.html#ash-62-10

 

which shows a train mainly of Catfish, at least three Trout and possibly one Gannet plus two ballast brakes passing through Parsley Hay en-route to Macclesfield in 1962.
 

 

I think this is the link you meant.

 

http://www.sutherland.davenportstation.org.uk/aaprint/ash.html

 

Photo about 1/2 way down the page.

[JustinDean]

5 hours ago, Tortuga said:

One of the many photos posted on the Cromford & High Peak Railway Facebook group shows one of the J94s with ‘Gannet’ DM197392 branded ‘Empty to Parsley Hay’.

 

Does this indicate some ‘Gannets’ were held at Parsley Hay specifically for ballasting work on the C&HPR (and potentially on the Buxton to Ashbourne line as well)?

 

If so, arguments against getting a couple printed myself are growing thin on the ground!

Good question and probably a good idea to ask on the Buxton line FB group. There’s a lot of ex railwaymen on there who will most likely know the answer. 
 

Jay

[JustinDean]

While I wait for suitable buffers to turn up for the Gannets I thought I’d attempt to put all these little bits:

 

 

Onto the bigger bits:

 

 

I’ll report back later…..

 

Jay

[JustinDean]

Coupling rods are soldered up and on. A couple of tight spots despite the quartering being bang so I’m contemplating opening out the holes a smidge. 
 

 

[Middlepeak]

Hi Jay,

 

Good to see progress and glad that you seem to have resolved the issues with the cylinders.

 

One thing you might like to check is the balance weights. These differed from loco to loco and from a quick look through my photos, the only one I can find with such large balance weights is 58850, and then only on the leading and centre axles, where the LNWR H-section spoked wheels were fitted.

 

Not sure which loco you're modelling, but worth checking - they are rather noticeable as things stand!

 

G

[JustinDean]

1 minute ago, Middlepeak said:

Hi Jay,

 

Good to see progress and glad that you seem to have resolved the issues with the cylinders.

 

One thing you might like to check is the balance weights. These differed from loco to loco and from a quick look through my photos, the only one I can find with such large balance weights is 58850, and then only on the leading and centre axles, where the LNWR H-section spoked wheels were fitted.

 

Not sure which loco you're modelling, but worth checking - they are rather noticeable as things stand!

 

G

Oh !

 

Yep I’ve made a blunder there - thanks G!

I’ll resolve that when I have some time. 
 

Jay

 

 

[Ramrig]

Hi Jay

 

Who’s buffers did you order for your Gannets please? I’ve had one printed and need suitable buffers to complete.

 

Steve

[Middlepeak]

On 03/09/2023 at 20:57, JustinDean said:

Oh !

 

Yep I’ve made a blunder there - thanks G!

I’ll resolve that when I have some time. 
 

Jay

 

 

Blunder is much too strong a word Jay! These things are there to trip us up. It's always down to the individual as to whether they take note of them!

 

G

[JustinDean]

On 13/09/2023 at 18:23, Ramrig said:

Hi Jay

 

Who’s buffers did you order for your Gannets please? I’ve had one printed and need suitable buffers to complete.

 

Steve

Ay up Steve, I’ve ended up using Alan Gibson’s rendition of the RCH buffer. In all honesty I’m not entirely sure they’re correct but they were visually the closest I could find. 
 

Jay

[JustinDean]

On 13/09/2023 at 20:34, Middlepeak said:

Blunder is much too strong a word Jay! These things are there to trip us up. It's always down to the individual as to whether they take note of them!

 

G

These are going to be corrected when I have the luxury of time! 
There’s some binding issues on the connecting rods also. Quartering is bob on, so I’m thinking the holes need opening up just a touch. 
 

Jay

Edited September 15, 2023 by JustinDean

[JustinDean]

I’ve resized the balance weights on the wheels according to the loco I’m basing this on. 
Thanks for spotting that G!

using a broach I’ve opened out the holes on the connecting rods but still some binding occurring. I’m now wondering if there’s too much side play in the wheels. 
 

 

[micklner]

What are you using for the Crankpins and fixings. They do not look like Gibson fittings. You have a large gap bewteen the fixing nuts and the rods, allowing the rods to go all over the place, not surprised you have binding.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, JustinDean said:

I’ve resized the balance weights on the wheels according to the loco I’m basing this on. 
Thanks for spotting that G!

using a broach I’ve opened out the holes on the connecting rods but still some binding occurring. I’m now wondering if there’s too much side play in the wheels. 
 

 

 

You have spacers on the crankpins limiting 'slop', haven't you?

 

I can see a parting 'pimple' on the leading axle - is that impinging on the back of the coupling rod?

 

CJI.

[MrWolf]

Also check that your crank pins are dead square in relation to the wheels, one crank pin out of true will bind at opposing points. I've had the same effect also with a bent crank pin.

[Rowsley17D]

Have you tried it as a 2-4-0?

[JustinDean]

Thanks for all the responses! This is all very useful to a beginner such as myself. 
 

@micklner - they’re Sharman wheels. The rods are sat on the supplied bushes and they’re too long allowing too much side play. 
This will be the next step.

@cctransuk - these are bushes the connecting rods slide over. As per my comment above they need to be trimmed down. Thanks for spotting the ‘pimple’ - I’ll get a file on that!

@MrWolf - cheers Rob. Unlike the Dock tank I made earlier in the year the pins are bang on. 
@Rowsley17D - I think that’s a wise suggestion Jonathon. When I’ve shortened those bushes that will be the next step now. 
 

Jay

[micklner]

6 hours ago, JustinDean said:

Thanks for all the responses! This is all very useful to a beginner such as myself. 
 

@micklner - they’re Sharman wheels. The rods are sat on the supplied bushes and they’re too long allowing too much side play. 
This will be the next step.

@cctransuk - these are bushes the connecting rods slide over. As per my comment above they need to be trimmed down. Thanks for spotting the ‘pimple’ - I’ll get a file on that!

@MrWolf - cheers Rob. Unlike the Dock tank I made earlier in the year the pins are bang on. 
@Rowsley17D - I think that’s a wise suggestion Jonathon. When I’ve shortened those bushes that will be the next step now. 
 

Jay

It maybe a lot easier to buy Alan Gibson , Short Bushes and Nuts, the Bushes will then be all the same length. I have no idea if the Sharman "pins/screws" have the same thread however. Gibsons are M1 thread. As you wheels are I presume push fitted on the wheels, its not recomended to take them off the axles again to change the screws over.

 

See below.

 

http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/Spring 2022 catalogue.pdf

[Middlepeak]

Jay,

 

Best course of action is to take the rods off and the Sharman's crankpin bearings. Put each bearing on a flat hard surface and thread the appropriate rod onto it. Then gently file the bearing down until it's only just proud of the face of the rod - a few thou, that's all. When it's back on the wheel, the crankpin nut will tighten down onto the end of the bearing, leaving the few thou as working clearance.

 

From memory, the original Sharman's wheels used 14BA crankpins, whereas as micklner points out, Gibsons are M1. The Sharman's crankpins are moulded into the wheels, so they can't be removed without destroying the wheel. Best to stick with what you've got - they will be fine!!

 

G

[JustinDean]

12 minutes ago, Middlepeak said:

Jay,

 

Best course of action is to take the rods off and the Sharman's crankpin bearings. Put each bearing on a flat hard surface and thread the appropriate rod onto it. Then gently file the bearing down until it's only just proud of the face of the rod - a few thou, that's all. When it's back on the wheel, the crankpin nut will tighten down onto the end of the bearing, leaving the few thou as working clearance.

 

From memory, the original Sharman's wheels used 14BA crankpins, whereas as micklner points out, Gibsons are M1. The Sharman's crankpins are moulded into the wheels, so they can't be removed without destroying the wheel. Best to stick with what you've got - they will be fine!!

 

G

Really excellent advice. Thank you G!

 

Jay

[JustinDean]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

It maybe a lot easier to buy Alan Gibson , Short Bushes and Nuts, the Bushes will then be all the same length. I have no idea if the Sharman "pins/screws" have the same thread however. Gibsons are M1 thread. As you wheels are I presume push fitted on the wheels, its not recomended to take them off the axles again to change the screws over.

 

See below.

 

http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/Spring 2022 catalogue.pdf

I’ve used AG wheels on my previous Dock Tank project. If memory serves me correctly I chose the Sharman wheels for the NLR Tank as they were the only correct ones available. 
I’ve read on Tony Wrights thread some time ago about the various wheel perils!

 

Jay

[JustinDean]

I spent today assisting @NHY 581 with Bleat Wharf at the Stafford show. Good to catch up with some RMWebbers in real life and see some very nice layouts. A really excellent exhibition all round. 
Here’s a snap of Bleat Wharf:

 

 

[Tortuga]

Nice to see you got back safe Jay. Really enjoyed meeting you (and Rob) yesterday. Hopefully my repeated circling back for a chat didn’t distract the operating too much!

[JustinDean]

54 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Nice to see you got back safe Jay. Really enjoyed meeting you (and Rob) yesterday. Hopefully my repeated circling back for a chat didn’t distract the operating too much!

Likewise Nick!

Operating is a pretty loose way of describing what was going on so no worries there mate.