MerseyMan Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 C&Ls instructions state the normal solvent adhesive, Butanone, will also fix plastic chairs to ply sleepers. The solvent will melt the plastic into the grain of the ply. There will not be as much strength in the joint as there would be with a plastic weld, but it should be adequate for the purpose. The question I would like to know is will this Butanone work on a different kind of wood, maybe something like Pine oak or Balsa? Or does it have to be Ply? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted May 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 18, 2020 I have done it on Limewood strip sleepers and it has been fine. I haven't tried balsa or pine oak. If you are not sure, just try with a chair or two and a scrap of wood. Let it dry and see how easy it is to get off. I have found that it gives a surprisingly strong bond and I have broken a chair before it came off more than once. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) I see no reason why it shouldn't work with most woods. It works by a small amount of plastic working its way into the grain of the wood. So, if the wood grain is 'open' enough it should work. One advantage of using this method is that the joints are strong enough but if you go wrong the chairs can be separated from the sleeper by sliding a scaple blade between the two. Dave Edited May 18, 2020 by dasatcopthorne 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerseyMan Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 Thanks guys. Just what I needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted May 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 18, 2020 As an aside. It was recently mused in another forum that solvents might attack the resins that bond plywood’s together. So strip wood perhaps is a better bet long term? Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted May 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 18, 2020 Depends on what is considered long term really. Somewhere I have a few odd ply sleepers with the original K&L chairs on when I first tried the idea. I don't think they have disintegrated. Either the chairs or the sleepers. I will check when I am able. That will be in excess of 35years. The layouts of that time are now long gone of course. Sold off and replaced. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted May 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2020 The total strength of lots of chairs holds everything in place pretty solidly. If one or two need fixing down a bit more firmly (maybe at a baseboard joint, if the layout's going to be moved?) you can always glue those ones down with something else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted June 1, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 18/05/2020 at 22:18, Izzy said: ...original K&L... That will be in excess of 35years. Izzy I've bought these from eBay in recent years, seriously old but still did the job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Hi I use butanone to fix C and L chairs to walnut strip sleepers. I find it gives a stronger bond with the walnut than with ply, as the grain is more open and allows the plastic to soak in, as it were. I tried both and found the walnut to be far superior, less expensive and much more realistic looking. The pic below shows walnut sleepered track with just a light wash of black after laying: I've laid over 40 metres of track and 25 turnouts so far on my layout using this method and find it a very straightforward and satisfying process. Hope this helps Ian 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 My P4 layout with K&L chairs and ply sleepers (Brook- Smith) has been down for 30 odd years and still holds the gauge. I used Butenone but now I understand that MEK is the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Jeff/Ian This has come up several times, the more learned state Butanone is MEK.. BUT do not confuse Mek-Pak with it, its a similar product but a different formula, not as effective According to Phil (owner of C&L) the plastic used for the chairs has tiny rubber particles in it, Butanone and MEK dissolve these. How true this is I leave it to the chemists among us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted August 29, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 29, 2020 On 27/08/2020 at 23:42, IanLister said: Hi I use butanone to fix C and L chairs to walnut strip sleepers. I find it gives a stronger bond with the walnut than with ply, as the grain is more open and allows the plastic to soak in, as it were. I tried both and found the walnut to be far superior, less expensive and much more realistic looking. The pic below shows walnut sleepered track with just a light wash of black after laying: I've laid over 40 metres of track and 25 turnouts so far on my layout using this method and find it a very straightforward and satisfying process. Hope this helps Ian Where do you buy the walnut from please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 Hi Polybear I buy the walnut strip from Jotika-ltd.com. Jotika are a manufacturer of model ship kits in the West Midlands. They sell walnut strip in packs of 10 x 1m lengths. I buy 1mm x 4mm for turnout timbers and 1mm x 3.5mm for regular sleepers. Costs around £3 a pack if I remember correctly. All cut to length using a small model maker's guillotine; my record is over 750 per minute, assisted by a bottle of decent beer! Best to order by phone as the 3.5mm is a special they use for deck planking in their kits but will sell if you ask for it. Delivery usually 2-3 days. They're very helpful. Hope this helps.... Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted August 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 30, 2020 12 hours ago, IanLister said: Hi Polybear I buy the walnut strip from Jotika-ltd.com. Jotika are a manufacturer of model ship kits in the West Midlands. They sell walnut strip in packs of 10 x 1m lengths. I buy 1mm x 4mm for turnout timbers and 1mm x 3.5mm for regular sleepers. Costs around £3 a pack if I remember correctly. All cut to length using a small model maker's guillotine; my record is over 750 per minute, assisted by a bottle of decent beer! Best to order by phone as the 3.5mm is a special they use for deck planking in their kits but will sell if you ask for it. Delivery usually 2-3 days. They're very helpful. Hope this helps.... Ian Excellent - many thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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