Wearing face masks or coverings on public transport to be mandatory from June 15th

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, John Harris said:

It will be interesting if the vaccination is 'forever', like MMR, or annual like seasonal flu?

If we are very lucky, this Coronavirus will mutate “downhill” to become just another cold virus, but goodness knows how long that might take.

 

I try not to think about the opposite mutation path.

[SM42]

5 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

If we are very lucky, this Coronavirus will mutate “downhill” to become just another cold virus, but goodness knows how long that might take.

 

I try not to think about the opposite mutation path.

 

Apparently viruses do tend to mutate downwards. This was the view of a scientist early on. 

 

To be successful the virus needs a host. Killing the host is not the virus's intention (even if we have given it a human murderous intent) Killing the host is of no use. The virus will die too. Thus the virus mutations  that will survive in greater number are those that don't kill all the hosts.

 

Back to a previous post, instead of buying gloves to operate communal keypads, use a cheap disposable biro. Remove ink tube and nib. use pen to push buttons. Replace cap to cover the contaminated end. I keep one in the car for use on card terminals at petrol stations.  Can be used to open doors on trains too.

 

The warning  signs for the government have been there since 2016 when an pandemic exercise was carried out. The lessons have either not been learnt or heard or just plain disregarded and as a result they are quite literally making it up as they go along. The result is ad hoc legislation and instructions that in theory could have been thrashed out 4 years ago and kept in a cupboard to be used if required.

 

The problem with such ad hoc policy is that it tends not to be very effective or enforcable (See Dangerous Dogs Act) but bear in mind that there is a 3 weekly review within the legislation, unike the Hungarian model

 

On the whole the public has gone along with it. There will always be those who refuse to abide, but their voices and the apparent disregard by those in the public eye who should know better are insidious and the rot starts to creep in across the populace in general. 

 

The longer this goes on the harder it will be to impose new restrictions. People have been given a glimpse of the light at the end, to have that extinguished will be hard

Really the restrictions and guidance from restricting movement to quarentines and  mask wearing   should have been there from the start. It is always easier to remove than to apply.

 

The travelling public will now be facing the prospect of delay and cancellation because of a dispute about someone who refuses to wear a mask, staff or fellow passengers may even be assaulted for daring to challenge someone  and the limited resources of the BTP and other police forces  will be stretched further.

 

On a brighter note, I have no doubt that in time COVID19 will become like it predecessor SARS. It will be out there, as a constant and occasional hazard, much like seasonal flu is, and life will return to normal in the not too distant future. I just hope and pray the cost of getting there is not much higher.

 

Andy

 

 

[stewartingram]

4 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Will they be on prescription? 

 

I also saw somewhere that if you're making facemasks at home, they should have a triple layer construction (from outside in) water repellent layer/padding layer/soft cotton layer.  I think the understanding is that simple masks,scarves,etc get damp quite quickly from the breath and any viral particles can more or less "swim" through to infect the wearer.

 

So many mixed messages, its hard to know whats right/safe(ish)...

 

How about using Clingfilm?

 

 

(DON'T try this at home!)

[pete_mcfarlane]

14 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

cRoughly 30% of all passengers are currently wearing some sort of face covering ranging from industrial respirators to a spotted hanky;

 

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

So many times mentioned but never absorbed!

Although there 3M type masks (which are really called respirators) which are only nose and mouth covers (doesn’t need to be a “space helmet” type strictly) these ARE to protect the wearer rather than the cheaper more common masks which are the type seen in operating theatres, and commonly now everywhere.

You often see journalists on TV wearing the respirator type.

https://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/company-uk/3m-products/~/All-3M-Products/Safety/Worker-Health-Safety/Personal-Protective-Equipment/Disposable-Respirators/?N=5002385+8709322+8711017+8711405+8720539+8720542&rt=r3

 

I have one of the more sophisticated disposable (but reusable umpteen times) 3M masks for paint spraying. You inhale through a filter but exhale through a simple non-return valve, which presumably makes it totally useless for protecting others from your germs.  

[boxbrownie]

12 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

 

 

I have one of the more sophisticated disposable (but reusable umpteen times) 3M masks for paint spraying. You inhale through a filter but exhale through a simple non-return valve, which presumably makes it totally useless for protecting others from your germs.  

More or less, yes.....it’s for protecting you.

 

One thing to be aware of is for paint spraying it is designed to block particles and aromatics (they usually have carbon filters) not sure they will be fine enough to filter viral organisms, worth checking.

Edited June 6, 2020 by boxbrownie

[Fat Controller]

Whilst being stuck at home because she is 'shielded', my wife has been crocheting the devices shown below for those who have to wear masks over long periods. She's done more than a hundred for local hospitals and care homes.

[Andy Kirkham]

4 hours ago, caradoc said:

Surely the vaccine is to protect the person taking it, so anyone who refuses to be vaccinated is only risking harm to themself and other refuseniks ?

 

And automatic qualification for the semi-finals of the Darwin Awards https://darwinawards.com/

[Nearholmer]

Vaccination is also important for herd immunity, because it cuts paths that a disease can use to reach non-vaccinated people such as those who accidentally get missed, or are too ill through some other cause to vaccinate or where the vaccination has failed for some reason.

[w124bob]

4 hours ago, Jonboy said:

and I will repeat my earlier comment with the evidence....https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/revenue-and-customs-brief-4-2020-temporary-vat-zero-rating-of-personal-protective-equipment-ppe/revenue-and-customs-brief-4-2020-temporary-vat-zero-rating-of-personal-protective-equipment-ppe

Thankyou for posting that, not exactly been loudly broadcast though . I was not aware of it from the mainstream news, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Don't let the barstewards grid you down!

[maico]

On 05/06/2020 at 14:53, maico said:

 

I've been hanging mine on a cloths line since April. Before it all kicked off I had a pack of good quality FFP2 masks, made in Europe by 3M for DIY use. I bit to expensive just to use once so I was soaking them in a bath of Isopropyl alcohol. With the stronger sun I just wipe them down and leave them on a clothes line. Normal domestic window glass cuts out UVB but some UVA does get through but yes, you want both. The Virus lipoprotein envelope containing the virus's RNA breaks down.

 

 

 

I forgot the link to the summary of the Lancet Article on Covid eye and face mask effectiveness

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-06/tl-pss060120.php

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, w124bob said:

Thankyou for posting that, not exactly been loudly broadcast though . I was not aware of it from the mainstream news, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

No doubt you would have noticed when you buy them 

[caradoc]

6 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Not quite, if you refuse the vaccine and catch the virus you can then spread it while your infected.

 

Yes, but you can only spread it to the other vaccine refuseniks !

[boxbrownie]

6 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Yes, but you can only spread it to the other vaccine refuseniks !

Or people who cannot accept the vaccine due to medical reasons.

[Phil Parker]

8 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

If we are very lucky, this Coronavirus will mutate “downhill” to become just another cold virus, but goodness knows how long that might take.

 

I try not to think about the opposite mutation path.

 

There was this earlier in the week: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-no-longer-clinically-exists-in-italy-top-doctor-says-11998608

 

Although the WHO isn't convinced: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06-virus-potent-italian-doctor.html

but ers on the "more information needed" side.

[Andy Kirkham]

2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

There was this earlier in the week: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-no-longer-clinically-exists-in-italy-top-doctor-says-11998608

 

Although the WHO isn't convinced: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06-virus-potent-italian-doctor.html

but ers on the "more information needed" side.

 

Unfortunately I wan't able to find an appropriate predefined reaction: "Informative" doesn't quite hit the mark for me; I think I need one that somehow expresses a combination of Hopeful/Doubtful/Puzzled.

[polybear]

23 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Will they be on prescription? 

 

I also saw somewhere that if you're making facemasks at home, they should have a triple layer construction (from outside in) water repellent layer/padding layer/soft cotton layer.  I think the understanding is that simple masks,scarves,etc get damp quite quickly from the breath and any viral particles can more or less "swim" through to infect the wearer.

 

So many mixed messages, its hard to know whats right/safe(ish)...

 

 

Suffocation maybe a slight side-effect..........

[TheQ]

18 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

 

 

I have one of the more sophisticated disposable (but reusable umpteen times) 3M masks for paint spraying. You inhale through a filter but exhale through a simple non-return valve, which presumably makes it totally useless for protecting others from your germs.  

Not entirely,  if you cough or sneeze,  liquids expelled will generally stick to the inside of the mask. Also most filter outlets slow the exhaled breath,  so you are not projecting it forward but sending in a "halo" round the exit. 

[caradoc]

14 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Or people who cannot accept the vaccine due to medical reasons.

 

Fair point. As a matter of interest, what proportion of the population will be in that situation, and what other measures could be taken to protect them ? 

 

[jcm@gwr]

32 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Fair point. As a matter of interest, what proportion of the population will be in that situation, and what other measures could be taken to protect them ? 

 

 

That might not be known until the vaccine is developed, and we know whats in it.

[Gwiwer]

SWMBO has busied herself cutting and sewing six facial coverings for my benefit in forthcoming weeks.  If nothing else I shall comply with the requirements sporting unique and personally-created face-wear.  

 

I can't say they are comfortable and they do cause my windows to fog up but (1) suffering an attack of the dreaded lurgy would probably be a lot less comfortable - and I know several who have had it and can describe personal experiences and (2) it is not yet clarified whether anything will be required (as opposed to suggested / advised / recommended / not bothered / can't be bothered / do as you please) on duty.  

 

As she has occasionally said with reference to her quilting activities "The woman who dies with the most fabric wins".  She has just gone through six baskets of fabric to select the pieces required for six unique items.  I was not allowed to have slogans embroidered on them though   

[Reorte]

3 hours ago, caradoc said:

 

Fair point. As a matter of interest, what proportion of the population will be in that situation, and what other measures could be taken to protect them ? 

 

The measure to protect them is to vaccinate enough other people, that's the gist of herd immunity - enough of the herd can't be infected so that the ones who can aren't enough for the diseases to survive, so they stand little chance of catching it anyway. It runs a chance of a few catching it, hopefully a small number; nothing's ever perfect.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Reorte

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

15 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

There was this earlier in the week: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-no-longer-clinically-exists-in-italy-top-doctor-says-11998608...

That was also the position some six to nine months ago! (Estimates vary.)
The problem of plentiful fresh supplies available from elsewhere remains unchanged.

[Phil Parker]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

That was also the position some six to nine months ago! (Estimates vary.)
The problem of plentiful fresh supplies available from elsewhere remains unchanged.

 

The point is that the virus may be mutating in Italy to something with a viral load that makes it harmless. Now, you might like to believe that this is only taking place in that country, but it's more likely that mutation is taking place in other places. Optimists would like to think that to virus will burn itself out in the same way SARS did. Pessimists will like to believe that it's mutating to a more virulent version and we'll all be dead by Autumn. Take your pick.

[Reorte]

Any given mutation could turn out either more harmful, less, or no different. What ultimately matters is which of those mutations are the most successful (in terms of letting the virus spread), leaving no room for the others. More harmful ones tend not to be because people die, and where they don't they start to isolate themselves, making the virus harder to spread. For a less harmful one to dominate behaviour needs to change; if there are fewer restrictions for example a less harmful variant can spread and dominate without people noticing it and restricting again. But it's not an argument for lessening restrictions unless you know for sure that variant is present.

 

What diseases don't do is spontaneously mutate to being less harmful without any other change favouring that variant.

 

[Nearholmer]

The thing I found confusing about that report from Italy is that it talks about viral load, how much a person has “on board”, and that could be lower because the thing is multiplying less rapidly once inside a person, or simply because people are wise to the symptoms and implications and seeking help, or being sent to hospital by wiser community health  staff, earlier in the illness.

 

Even if it is multiplying less rapidly once inside a person, that might be because the victims are now younger and fitter, rather than because the beast is weaker.

 

Too many variables, and too little information, to allow an outbreak of unbridled cheerfulness in my book.