The Night Mail

[rockershovel]

18 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I still love Carry on up the Khyber and Carry on Don't Lose your Head, smutty and all sorts of stuff that'd be red lined today but they make me laugh.

Khyber and to a lesser extent, Cowboy are much the best of the Carry Ons. The dining room scene in Khyber is a classic piece of dead-pan slapstick. 

[rockershovel]

 

17 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

In what way "regressed"? Become incredibly more judgmental and censorious (as in "can't say the T word or the G word or even talk about "X") or become incredibly more licentious ("Naked Attraction" anyone)?

 

An interesting aside: I read somewhere that those words considered to be the foulest epithets in any given country are words that reflect a country's obsessions and phobias: in the UK and the US foul language revolve around the act of reproduction, in Germany, around excretory functions and in Italy around religion.

 

Of course, the above may be just a bit of academic misdirection, perhaps to have a little fun at the expense of the credulous. But it's an intriguing notion nonetheless.

I can't imagine Blazing Saddles being made today.....

[SM42]

20 minutes ago, Willie Whizz said:

Back in the 60s and 70s it was often the case that it wasn’t just “the best actor for the job”, but that X was “the only actor for [that sort of] job. 
 

You want an oily-looking, smarmy-sounding gent of vaguely Levantine appearance?  You need Steve Plytas!  You want an Eastern European, rather sinister looking, Putin before Putin type?  You want Vladek Sheybal!  A cynical, coldly calculating Nazi? Anton Diffring is your man!

 

A look at the cast lists of many of the series dramas of the day will see these guys appearing time after time. 

 

 

 

It seems slightly different nowadays 

 

An actor,/ actress suddenly becomes the in thing and are absolutely everywhere and in everything. 

 

Then a few months later nothing. 

They disappear and maybe pop up once or twice a year if they are lucky. 

 

Andy

[SM42]

7 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

Khyber and to a lesser extent, Cowboy are much the best of the Carry Ons. The dining room scene in Khyber is a classic piece of dead-pan slapstick. 

 

A colleague recently asked if I would like to try some ( home made)  tiffin 

 

It did make me smile, for reasons other than free cake 

 

Andy

 

 

[rockershovel]

I've found that withdrawing entirely from modern thinking solves a lot of problems. 

 

I saw part of the "black Anne Boleyn" and found it unwatchable. THE WHOLE POINT of the Boleyn family is that they were people "of their time" and to assert otherwise is nonsense. 

 

Same goes for Bridgerton and the cringingly "socially correct" Downton Abbey. 

 

There was a whole documentary the other night "rethinking our attitudes to Tudor Britain" because one of the skeletons from Mary Rose appears to be African. The Tudors weren't stupid, they were well aware of Africa. It's hardly news that seamen might be from almost anywhere; read any sea story from Moby Dick to the Hornblower or Aubrey/Maturin stories and occasional Africans appear.

 

 

[iL Dottore]

38 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

What about, “Fetch the cake, Bear.”

 

Dave

Some further ideas:

 

HH: We're Bear and Hippo and we HAVEN'T had our cake...

 

PB: Put the cake on the ground and back away slowly, hands where we can see 'em.

 

HH: Give me the keys. I'll go to the supermarket. What do you want?

PB: Truth and justice.

HH: Anything else?

PB: Cake.

HH: Why not? We're cops.

 

PB: You're Out Of Cake. And You Know What That Means - You're S*** Outta' Luck!

 

HH: You've Gotta' Ask Yourself A Question. 'Do I have cake?' Well, Do Ya...PUNK?

 

 

[Dave Hunt]

“It’s 106 miles to Chicago , we’ve got a full tank of gas, half a cake, it’s dark and we’re wearing sunglasses. Hit it.”

 

From the Blues Grey and White Brothers.

 

Dave

[PhilJ W]

38 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

I've found that withdrawing entirely from modern thinking solves a lot of problems. 

 

I saw part of the "black Anne Boleyn" and found it unwatchable. THE WHOLE POINT of the Boleyn family is that they were people "of their time" and to assert otherwise is nonsense. 

 

Same goes for Bridgerton and the cringingly "socially correct" Downton Abbey. 

 

There was a whole documentary the other night "rethinking our attitudes to Tudor Britain" because one of the skeletons from Mary Rose appears to be African. The Tudors weren't stupid, they were well aware of Africa. It's hardly news that seamen might be from almost anywhere; read any sea story from Moby Dick to the Hornblower or Aubrey/Maturin stories and occasional Africans appear.

 

Joseph Conrad incorporated many Asian seamen in his works.

[jamie92208]

11 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

One of the problems bedevilling modern programmes is the curse of “diversity and inclusivity” which has programme makers saying “we need one of these, two of those and three of the other and we’ll be properly inclusive”. In other words hiring to meet quotas, rather than according to the needs of the story and the characters in that story. Unfortunately, the push for D&I has resulted in an awful number of poor casting decisions - causing the cynical to wonder if casting was nothing but a tick box exercise.

 

To make up a silly example: the Beeb announces a new comedy drama “Black and White” about a pair of oddball coppers: DCI Black (played by @Happy Hippo) and DS White (played by @polybear). In the 70s and 80s you would have simply concluded that PB and HH were the best ones to hire for those roles. Nowadays? You end up asking did they cast HH and PB because they were right for the roles or because someone, somewhere, said “hold on, there aren’t enough hippos and bears in our cop dramas”?

 

Just as bad, in my view, is when the film/programme is supposedly - say - a cop buddy-buddy “bromance” and instead of hiring a Polybear to play DS White, hire a Polina Bear (which sort of destroys the whole premise of a cop buddy-buddy “bromance”).

 

And such hiring does the actors no favours either, causing the cynical to wonder whether or not PB was hired to play DS White because he was the best actor for the job or because they didn’t have enough bears in the production.

NB: “Bromance” a type of drama in which there is a very close and non-sexual relationship between two men. It is an exceptionally tight, affectional,  male bonding relationship exceeding that of usual friendship, in a bromance, a charachter would rather die than betray his buddy…

The one that always makes me wonder is Vera.  There is a black DC in the office but almost invariably someone in the murder victim's close family is black or mixed race.  Probably not very true to life in rural Northumbria. 

 

Jamie

Edited May 3 by jamie92208

[Dave Hunt]

40 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

I saw part of the "black Anne Boleyn" and found it unwatchable. THE WHOLE POINT of the Boleyn family is that they were people "of their time" and to assert otherwise is nonsense. 

As bad as presenting The Taming of the Shrew with an all female cast, as was done not so long ago to great acclaim by the “luvvy” fraternity. I once sat through (to say ‘watched’ would be suggesting I may have enjoyed it) a performance of Twelfth Night set for some reason in Edwardian times and costumes, the low spot of which was when Malvolio appeared for the ‘cross garters’ scene in typically Edwardian costume but with crossed bl00dy garters on his trousers! I burst out laughing and although many others in the audience followed my lead I also got filthy looks from quite a few.

 

Dave 

[PhilJ W]

Carry on screaming was also one of the better Carry ons. As for sitcom, no one's mentioned 'Dad's Army' yet which must be one of the best if not the best British sitcoms. Only problem was that it wasn't allowed to retire gracefully but wheeled out every year by the BBC. The follow on, Allo Allo, wasn't as good but was better than some I could mention.

Edited May 3 by PhilJ W

[Hroth]

11 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Joseph Conrad incorporated many Asian seamen in his works.

 

Because, depending on the trading route, they were a familiar component of a large ships crew.  Its like finding a colony of scotsmen in the engine room*.

 

* Hence Scotty in the original Startrek...

 

Edited May 3 by Hroth
typoo...

[jjb1970]

The global merchant fleet today would stop overnight without Asian seafarers. It's a cliche but not that far off the mark that Indian officers with Filipino and Indonesian ratings keep the fleet moving.

[Northmoor]

55 minutes ago, Willie Whizz said:

Back in the 60s and 70s it was often the case that it wasn’t just “the best actor for the job”, but that X was “the only actor for [that sort of] job. 
 

You want an oily-looking, smarmy-sounding gent of vaguely Levantine appearance?  You need Steve Plytas!  You want an Eastern European, rather sinister looking, Putin before Putin type?  You want Vladek Sheybal!  A cynical, coldly calculating Nazi? Anton Diffring is your man!

 

A look at the cast lists of many of the series dramas of the day will see these guys appearing time after time. 

 

 

Before the 1990s, if the script demanded any sort of Middle-Eastern looking bloke, there was a 50/50 chance you'd get Nadim Sawalha. 

From the 1980s onwards, if it was a Eastern European woman over 30 ("All sound the same don't they?"), you'd get Joanna Kanska.

I've no doubt they had to battle to get on screen more than some others, but my childhood viewing would have been a lot less happy without Derek Griffiths and Floella Benjamin.

[iL Dottore]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

I've found that withdrawing entirely from modern thinking solves a lot of problems. 

 

I saw part of the "black Anne Boleyn" and found it unwatchable. THE WHOLE POINT of the Boleyn family is that they were people "of their time" and to assert otherwise is nonsense. 

 

Same goes for Bridgerton and the cringingly "socially correct" Downton Abbey.

The problem is when they insert modern sensibilities into historical events.

 

Apart from being anachronistic and jarring, it is also highly selective. Take, for example, slavery. In Roman times a grateful slave owner could have selected slaves manumitted - many of whom after becoming free men would go on to acquire their own slaves. Those with a bee in their bonnet about historical slavery rarely acknowledge that. And as for referring to the huge role many African kingdoms and the Arabic world played in the slave trade of the 1700s - nary a mention in the popular depictions being pushed as "the" narrative about slavery.

 

I would argue that acknowledging the entire historical picture, instead of ideologically chosen parts, gives us a better understanding of what really happened and what are the modern parallels we should recognize and take action on.

28 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

As bad as presenting The Taming of the Shrew with an all female cast, as was done not so long ago to great acclaim by the “luvvy” fraternity. I once sat through (to say ‘watched’ would be suggesting I may have enjoyed it) a performance of Twelfth Night set for some reason in Edwardian times and costumes, the low spot of which was when Malvolio appeared for the ‘cross garters’ scene in typically Edwardian costume but with crossed bl00dy garters on his trousers! I burst out laughing and although many others in the audience followed my lead I also got filthy looks from quite a few.

 

Dave 

As someone who has appeared in a number of "reinvented" Shakespearean plays, I have been lucky inasmuch as the directors I worked with had the same attitude to innovation as I. Namely, always asking two fundamental questions: does it bring anything to the play? is it something that the audience can relate to (aka "does it work"?).

 

I saw a production of Julius Caesar with an all black cast and it worked extreme;y well - nothing was incongruous, nothing stood out like a sore thumb shouting "look at us, aren't we clever" and it was great reminder of the universality of Shakespeare's plays.

Edited May 3 by iL Dottore

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

 

I can't imagine Blazing Saddles being made today.....

 

At least it still gets shown on the BBC.

 

 

What I don't understand is if these people don't like those films, books, TV programmes, etc. then why don't they make new ones for what they think of as a "modern" audience? 

 

Maybe because they haven't got a fraction of the talent the original writers had....

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

The problem is when they insert modern sensibilities into historical events.

 

This has always been the case: Shakespeare, Scott, Hugo, Dumas, Kingsley, Sienkiewicz... all used historical settings to address the issues of their own day.

[Steamport Southport]

21 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Before the 1990s, if the script demanded any sort of Middle-Eastern looking bloke, there was a 50/50 chance you'd get Nadim Sawalha. 

From the 1980s onwards, if it was a Eastern European woman over 30 ("All sound the same don't they?"), you'd get Joanna Kanska.

I've no doubt they had to battle to get on screen more than some others, but my childhood viewing would have been a lot less happy without Derek Griffiths and Floella Benjamin.

 

And if it was any nationality of Far Eastern origin then it would be Burt Kwouk!

 

Funnily enough he ended up in Last Of The Summer Wine....

 

 

[Dave Hunt]

56 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

As for sitcom, no one's mentioned 'Dad's Army' yet which must be one of the best if not the best British sitcoms.

Yes, I forgot Dad’s Army -as you suggest a good’un. I once, just before and immediately after it finished, flew with an F4 back seater whose name was Pike. “Stupid boy,” was commonly heard around the Squadron when addressing him and if some official asked for his name someone was almost invariably heard to say,”Don’t tell him Pike.”

 

Dave

 

 

Edited May 3 by Dave Hunt

[Happy Hippo]

23 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

Yes, I forgot Dad’s Army -as you suggest a good’un. I once, just before and immediately after it finished, flew with an F4 back seater whose name was Pike. “Stupid boy,” was commonly heard around the Squadron when addressing him and if some official asked for his name someone was almost invariably heard to say,”Don’t tell him Pike.”

 

Dave

 

 

Of course, in the modern armed forces that would have been pounced on as institutionalised bullying or the like.

[monkeysarefun]

4 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

I can't imagine Blazing Saddles being made today.....

 

Meanwhile down here in the 100%  fun and   no woke  bullsh!t Hemisphere - heres the trailer for a 2023 Australian cinema release, it  has the legit Australian Government logo of Approval at the end there and everything to prove its a 100% genuine Australian cultural item.

 

 

 

And Mad Max 5 comes out later this month!

Edited May 3 by monkeysarefun

[br2975]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

I can't imagine Blazing Saddles being made today.....

.

"Horses !

Horses !

Don't send the horses, send a ....................."

.

"We, the god fearing citizens of Rock Ridge......"

.

"Is it twoo, is it twoo, is it twoo what they say about......?

Oh it's twoo, it's twoo !"

.

Sadly............, neither could I imagine it being made today.

[monkeysarefun]

 

 

The  episode  of the Oz cartoon show Bluey, called "Dad Baby" where Dad Heeler pretends to give birth as part of a game with his kids  was today finally made available to US audiences via the official Bluey youtube channel, after 4 years of Disney + refusing to show it.

 

Theories why it was "banned" by Disney range from the fact that it depicts childbirth, albeit in a novelty manner including a midwife who is the bloke from next door who just wants to go and watch the cricket.  Other more loopy theories involve the ridiculous idea that because the Dad is pretending to give birth it is grooming children into accepting trans stuff. Or something.

 

Allowing for my patriotic bias, Bluey is by far the best  Australian show that's been on the  telly for yonks.   Close second would be Mr Inbetween, then Deadloch - an Australian take on the endless billions of English and Scandinavian police dramas. Though being Australian  there is a willy in the first 5 minutes - something that  Father Brown never had to deal with.

Edited May 3 by monkeysarefun

[monkeysarefun]

2 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Carry on screaming was also one of the better Carry ons. As for sitcom, no one's mentioned 'Dad's Army' yet which must be one of the best if not the best British sitcoms. Only problem was that it wasn't allowed to retire gracefully but wheeled out every year by the BBC. The follow on, Allo Allo, wasn't as good but was better than some I could mention.

 

 

For an outsiders view of pommy shows, I'd rate "The IT crowd", "The Comic Strip presents", "The Office", the first couple of series of "Red Dwarf", "Father Ted" and "Black Books".

 

Shows like "Dads Army" , "Last Of The Summer Wine", "Porridge" etc were shown endlessly here but I'd say they were  too "English" in depicting something that didn't translate, however  I did like "The Royale Family" and that one with Alf Garnett in it,  since those characters were in evidence here in Australian form,  and the writing was brilliant.

 

On the other hand, we also got subjected to complete sh!t like "Mind Your Language", "Love Thy Neighbour", "Some Mothers Do Ave em" and "Are You Being Served?"

[Hroth]

11 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

On the other hand, we also got subjected to complete sh!t like "Mind Your Language", "Love Thy Neighbour", "Some Mothers Do Ave em" and "Are You Being Served?"

 

All depending on very crude stereotypes for alleged humour.  Another teethachingly awful "sitcom" from the following decade was "Keeping Up Appearances".

 

Luckily none of the above seem to be on the repeats bandwagon, even on the furthest reaches of Freeview!

 

"Porridge" now seems an overidealised representation of life behind bars...