Hiccup or constipation?

[ardbealach]

As we continue through this period of Covid, are we into a new era of railway modelling?  With no exhibitions for the foreseeable future, and many modellers in lockdown and unable to visit their model shops, there is now a much greater reliance on mail order, and websites, for the purchase of the important items and components we require to progress our layouts.     

Added to the problems, for us modellers, is the current situation in which the manufacturers seem to be unable to produce their products fast enough to meet our current demand.

 

No doubt many of them are catching up with their back production after Lockdown.   And with what appears to be many more modellers working on their layouts at the present time, the demand for the limited availability of components is being amplified.  It has all become quite frustrating.

Looking into the future, will traders still attend exhibitions when they resume - with the added necessity of health and safety requirements? Or will they make life easier for themselves by working from their home business bases?  After all, for them no attendances at exhibitions will mean a saving on fuel for transport to and from the show venue, as well as no cost for overnight hotel accommodation, and the charges for their floor space at shows.  

 

And will internet buying, with the present long delivery times for components become the new norm?  I would hope not.  There is nothing worse than a layout stalling in its construction awaiting a piece of track, or a kit of parts.

If this is to be the new way, I suspect that traders who decide to work out only from their home base will lose out by trading only on the internet.  We all love to inspect and ‘handle the goods’ before we buy at shows and in our model shops.  And we love to browse.  I am certainly guilty of going into a model shop, or to a show stall, to purchase one or two items, and I always ending up buying more, which is all to the benefit of the trader.  For me internet shopping doesn’t work that way, I log on, buy the item and log out.

 

So is this a time now a hiccup, or constipation?  (AM)
 

[Phil Parker]

My guess, and it is a guess, is that nationally advertised traders will still want to go to very big shows. But, where they used to look for at least 1500 people through the door, in future it's more likely to be 5000+. Good news for Warley, Ally Pally, Glasgow etc.

 

At the other end of the scale, there will be local traders happy to turn up at a small event they don't have to drive to far to get to. These will mostly be the paste-table second hand dealers.

 

Specialist shows, but only a tiny number, will be OK as while they don't have massive crowds, those that do come, spend money.

 

In the middle between tiny local event and massive show - that's where the problem lies. If you are trading very nicely online, you'll need to be confident that giving up 4 days (show + travel + sorting out/recovering on the Monday) is worth it in cold, hard cash terms. I know you can say that meeting modellers matter, but you can't spend exposure at Tesco, and there are easier and cheaper ways to get your name in front of people. Products appearing in magazine editorial space has always been a useful sales driver, and it can drive customers to your website just as easily as to find you at a show.

[The Johnster]

Just to pick up on the title, if you can't tell the difference between a hiccup and constipation, please, don't sit by me...

[ardbealach]

Got you reading it though! (AM)

[JeremyC]

On 14/08/2020 at 20:31, Phil Parker said:

.......I know you can say that meeting modellers matter, but you can't spend exposure at Tesco, and there are easier and cheaper ways to get your name in front of people. Products appearing in magazine editorial space has always been a useful sales driver, and it can drive customers to your website just as easily as to find you at a show.

My wife is friendly with a couple who used to own a local boat chandlers. Every year they attended the Camping and Leisure exhibition at the SEC. According to them they never made money actually at the exhibition, but it was worth attending because for a considerable time afterwards they would get business from people who 'saw you at the show' 

Edited August 16, 2020 by JeremyC

[F-UnitMad]

On 14/08/2020 at 20:37, The Johnster said:

Just to pick up on the title, if you can't tell the difference between a hiccup and constipation, please, don't sit by me...

Johnster, Sir; you never disappoint!!

[Phil Parker]

2 hours ago, JeremyC said:

My wife is friendly with a couple who used to own a local boat chandlers. Every year they attended the Camping and Leisure exhibition at the SEC. According to them they never made money actually at the exhibition, but it was worth attending because for a considerable time afterwards they would get business from people who 'saw you at the show' 

 

It will vary depending on the business. If you are selling RTR locos, then I can't seen any benefit of exposure. Those people who see you there will probably just trawl the web looking at price in the future.

 

For smaller producers selling specialist items, it might be different as people like to look at things in the flesh so to speak. But ours is a low-margin hobby, you are going to need a lot of sales to cover travel, accommodation, stand fees etc. from a weekend away. Multiply that by the 30+ shows many traders can go to in a year and you'll need a LOT of sales to cover that. And while you are at a show, you aren't looking after the online orders. I can see this sort of calculation going through many traders minds, hence my suggestion that will want 5000+ through the door to make it worth attending.

[Andy Hayter]

While not disagreeing with what has been said so far, there is one group of traders who have not really been mentioned, or if considered covered in one sentence as the specialist traders attending largely specialist shows.

 

Quite a number of these either do not have a web presence or if they do do not have a facility for placing orders on line.  Yes I know you can phone them and some are extremely helpful, but I am sure I am not alone at looking at the things I want to buy in the evening and often at weekends.  For me in addition the one hour time difference has a disproportionate impact on phoning and the amount of overlap time when a call can be made.  To illustrate a lunch hour turns into a two hour gap in the middle of the day when making contact is not straightforward.  

 

For those of our members who reside further afield it must be even more difficult.

 

How that problem gets resolved in the absence of exhibitions I really don't know.  As a Luddite technophobe  myself, I have a lot of sympathy for the small producer who wants to spend his time making things for us to buy rather than developing and maintaining an all signing, all dancing web presence.  

[Neil]

I think it all depends on two things, how the future looks (will there be cure or vaccine for coronavirus) and will our habits have irrevocably changed. Those who reckon the lurgi will be an ever present feature of life to come are unnecessarily pessimistic in my opinion. It may take a while but I'm hopeful that science will dig us out of the hole we're in. I'm sure some habits will have changed for good, up till lockdown We've always shopped for groceries at the supermarket but now have a delivery from Asda every fortnight. As this saves time, money and effort I think we'll continue to do this long after it's ceased to be necessary to keep us safe.

[polybear]

On 14/08/2020 at 19:56, ardbealach said:

Looking into the future, will traders still attend exhibitions when they resume - with the added necessity of health and safety requirements? Or will they make life easier for themselves by working from their home business bases?  After all, for them no attendances at exhibitions will mean a saving on fuel for transport to and from the show venue, as well as no cost for overnight hotel accommodation, and the charges for their floor space at shows. 

 

 

Exhibitions form a very good shop window for their products, which can be priceless.  So long as it makes financial sense to attend then my view is that many (hopefully) will.  They may well be glad of the break from packing parcels and selling direct "over the counter" instead; the social aspect I'm sure is important to many traders also.

 

5 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 I can see this sort of calculation going through many traders minds, hence my suggestion that will want 5000+ through the door to make it worth attending.

 

The problem with larger shows is that the organisers want big money from Traders to attend; that's why the likes of South Eastern Finecast stopped attending Ally Pally as (in the words of Dave Ellis) "it's just a box shifting exercise".  It's (IMHO) been going down in recent years, as has the Model Engineering Exhibition at the same place in January each year.  Once the traders start dropping out then it's very easy to become  a slippery slope

[Martino]

As a large scale modeler of UK narrow gauge, but living in the USA, I have to get virtually everything on line and mail order.  It’s been like that as long as I’ve been here.  I did go out to local stores for general hardware, generic paint, adhesives etc., until the current situation.  Having been out to such stores recently it appears the employees and their customers are of the ‘we’re ignoring this social distancing/mask wearing thing’, so I have resorted to getting nearly everything on line.  We don’t have any modeling stores here in my part of the world - well, one about 90 mins drive away, but they don’t ‘do’ large scale.

I have always been in the tourism and travel business and after every emergency - wars, economic downturns, terrorist attacks - there has been a major change in the way things are done. Once the change takes hold it remains in force.

I’ve often told many of my business owning friends here and in the UK (for many years) that in addition to their bricks and mortar store they must embrace on-line and mail order to survive.  Those that did have survived. I regret that those that didn’t - haven’t. 

[RJS1977]

One of the things with traders having a physical presence at a show is that people will often buy things they didn't know they wanted until they saw it on their stand, whereas they wouldn't look it up on the Internet.

[kevinlms]

10 hours ago, JeremyC said:

My wife is friendly with a couple who used to own a local boat chandlers. Every year they attended the Camping and Leisure exhibition at the SEC. According to them they never made money actually at the exhibition, but it was worth attending because for a considerable time afterwards they would get business from people who 'saw you at the show' 

'Saw you at the show', doesn't actually tell a trader anything much. Did the people come in not know of their existence before, in which case the show did achieve something. If they were occasional existing customers who 'saw you at the show', then that is pointless.

 

Advertising is difficult, as you often never know how effective advertising is. It's particularly hard, if customers don't need your product/service straight away. A supermarket can advertise a particular special and people turn up in quantity the next day and they sell out. A plumber/electrician might not be required for many months or even years.

 

I've done advertising and had people respond, more than 12 months later, will I honour it? Yes, I do.

[polybear]

5 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

One of the things with traders having a physical presence at a show is that people will often buy things they didn't know they wanted until they saw it on their stand, whereas they wouldn't look it up on the Internet.

 

Very true, if my stock of goodies (and bank balance...) are anything to go by. 

[Andy Hayter]

8 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

One of the things with traders having a physical presence at a show is that people will often buy things they didn't know they wanted until they saw it on their stand, whereas they wouldn't look it up on the Internet.

 Or indeed perhaps did not even realise was available - even if it was something they had coveted for a long time.

[Wheatley]

Wizard/51L, London Road Models, Stevenson Coaches, 247, Monty/Dart  and Hobby Holidays are all examples of traders I "saw at a show" who get business because the physical stand and the wares laid out on it stick in my memory in a way that a small ad in the Modeller and a web address (or the old 'SAE for list'!) rarely do. They all get a steady trickle of orders from me between shows as well as the odd purchase while I'm there. If I want a set of left handed LYR widgets I'm more likely to look on Wizard's website  first because I know there's probably some in all those little polythene packets somewhere. 

 

I appreciate that this is probably maddeningly non-specific for the traders involved but seeing specialist traders at shows does make a difference. Funnily enough, although I always have a rummage through the RTR and second hand dealers as well, they don't make nearly the same impression. Same stuff on every stall I suppose.  

[ardbealach]

One of the main advantages of having traders at shows is the ability to look before buying.  I tend to ignore the box shifters, and spend my time looking at the specialist traders' stands.  As a scratch builder I can see in my head what I am after, and then I go looking at the display for it.  For example, I can look at a few sheets of plasticard, and immediately I know what I am after.  I haven't  a clue what thicknesses they are, and I just cannot talk in thousands of an inch.  The same goes for wire and wire gauges.  And if it is not in stock I often go for something close.  After all, I have a model to be progressed at home!

 

Or are we heading for Argos shopping type of stands with a front trader taking the orders and with a hidden stockroom at the back?   I hope not!   Alisdair

  

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Wheatley said:

Wizard/51L, London Road Models, Stevenson Coaches, 247, Monty/Dart  and Hobby Holidays are all examples of traders I "saw at a show" who get business because the physical stand and the wares laid out on it stick in my memory in a way that a small ad in the Modeller and a web address (or the old 'SAE for list'!) rarely do. They all get a steady trickle of orders from me between shows as well as the odd purchase while I'm there. If I want a set of left handed LYR widgets I'm more likely to look on Wizard's website  first because I know there's probably some in all those little polythene packets somewhere. 

 

I appreciate that this is probably maddeningly non-specific for the traders involved but seeing specialist traders at shows does make a difference. Funnily enough, although I always have a rummage through the RTR and second hand dealers as well, they don't make nearly the same impression. Same stuff on every stall I suppose.  

 

Well one and possibly two of those have given up on attending exhibitions.

 

Wizard/51L/Comet definitely and Stevenson Coaches is retiring I believe. 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/152664-millholme-models/

 

 

 

Jason

[Andy Hayter]

You might be right Jason but Wizard were at the last major English exhibition before the virus hit the fan - Donny in February 2020. 

[Steamport Southport]

6 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

You might be right Jason but Wizard were at the last major English exhibition before the virus hit the fan - Donny in February 2020. 

 

But he's been saying he was stopping attending exhibitions well before Covid happened.

 

It was first mentioned about two years ago.

 

 

 

Jason