Proceedings of the Castle Aching Parish Council, 1905

[Nearholmer]

I don’t think the Cavaliers and Roundheads point was meant to start a search for exact parallels in modern times, more to point out that as a nation we have strands of both the sort of piratical/buccaneering/devil-take-the hindmost thinking that we’ve been grumbling about all day, and something more earnest, more ready to be slightly bossy for the common good, something where the individual is almost self-consciously self-denying.

 

I think in the past the Roundhead tendency would have been identified with a certain type of liberals, the less red in tooth and claw left, and things like cooperative societies, low churches, mutual building societies, and educational societies. It’s negative side was something around “do-gooding busy-bodies”, a tendency to overstep the line and become intrusive. 

Nowadays, I’m not so sure where it resides, maybe the Green movement, but that is so weak and marginalised in Britain that probably not. I guess the thing it all used to rely upon was moral certainty, which, for good or ill, seems to have evapourated.

 

 

[alastairq]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

A good thing that Castle Aching Parish Council hasn't got Zoom.....

 

Merely waiting for technology to catch up with concept?

[monkeysarefun]

7 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The thing is, elections are about who you want to run the country, not who you think might be a laugh on a night out with the lads. Which may come as news to some.

 

 

Federal Election down under today, our chance to change one Marketing team for the other one, or ,maybe  even  let in some loonatic Trump enthusiasts

 

Thankfully there are subtle  reminders for the forgetful

 

 I choose my place of voting based on whats in it for me, this one wins this time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by monkeysarefun

[Annie]

Here in NZ all forms of electioneering are forbidden on voting day.  All posters and hoardings have to come down and be put away out of sight.

[monkeysarefun]

15 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

True enough, but a society that condones piracy - seduced by all the swashbuckling no doubt - is one where the rule of law has been abandoned. That cannot be good for lawyers and, I'm afraid, is exactly what we see with the current collapse of the criminal justice system.

Condone piracy? Here we can vote for it!

Hedged my bets but by making it number 2..

 

 

1 hour ago, Annie said:

Here in NZ all forms of electioneering are forbidden on voting day.  All posters and hoardings have to come down and be put away out of sight.

Here we run the gauntlet of party minions giving me their "how to allocate your preferences for us" leaflets.

However theres a sausage sandwich waiting  at the other end..

Edited May 21, 2022 by monkeysarefun

[Ian Simpson]

7 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

... Here we run the gauntlet of party minions giving me their "how to allocate your preferences for us" leaflets.

However theres a sausage sandwich waiting  at the other end..

 

Although even Angus Taylor isn't a complete fan of electoral advertising, it seems:

 

 

[Regularity]

On 20/05/2022 at 09:26, Compound2632 said:

That assumes that a code of morality is an individual choice rather than an expectation of civilised society.

‘S why we have laws: individuals decide that the accepted norms of behaviour don’t apply to them.

On 20/05/2022 at 10:36, Compound2632 said:

James I & VI

If you are going to be pedantic about regnal numbers, it starts the other way round (King of Scotland before he became King of England) and also has another I, as the Crown of England had been imposed upon Ireland.

So, James VI, I and I…

[Regularity]

On 20/05/2022 at 17:28, Nearholmer said:

Cavaliers and Roundheads

Not all Cavaliers were reckless, and not all Roundheads were puritanical. Many of the Lords fought on the side of Parliament, and many commoners stood for the King. Our usual attitudes are way off beam, and just stereotypes.

When it came down to it, it was still about an affluent educated elite ruling the country, not the majority of the people. When soldiers banded together to carry things on to the logical conclusion, and to enfranchise at least half of the adult population (they were not enlightened enough to want the vote for women!) they were taken aside and shot…

Most people just did what they were told.

[Compound2632]

37 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Not all Cavaliers were reckless

 

By sympathies are Jacobite (when they're not Jacobin) but don't extend as far as Prince Rupert, who burned Birmingham down twice.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Compound2632

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

who burned Birmingham down twice.

Seems like a redeeming feature to me… ;)

[Nearholmer]

3 hours ago, Regularity said:

and not all Roundheads were puritanical

Indeed. It’s a very widely held misunderstanding, resulting I think from some C17th, or later, fake news. Worth swotting up on religious toleration during The Commonwealth too - very tolerant by the standards of the day.

 

You are right about the rapid crushing of proto-democratic ideas too.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Indeed. It’s a very widely held misunderstanding, resulting I think from some C17th, or later, fake news. Worth swotting up on religious toleration during The Commonwealth too - very tolerant by the standards of the day.

 

Hmm.

 

I suppose once you'd vandalised all the churches and displaced the Anglican clergy, crushed the Levellers and slaughtered the Catholics in their tens of thousands, 

the 1650s were the model of inclusivity.

 

Mind you, for once the Jews got a free pass, so I guess it's swings and roundabouts.

 

The taking up of arms was by Puritans for Puritanism, not by parliamentarians and lawyers on constitutional  grounds. No one went to war because of Ship Money or rule without parliament, but, by God, they did when Laud wanted to put rood screens back. The idea that the Puritans were bigots was, and is, a widely held understanding.

 

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 Prince Rupert, who burned Birmingham down twice.

 

I knew I liked him!

 

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

 

You are right about the rapid crushing of proto-democratic ideas too.

 

Liberal, they weren't.  Democratic, they weren't. Their tolerance, such as it was, was highly selective!

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Edwardian
Grammar

[Annie]

They're a hard lot down in Dorset.

 

[Caledonian]

16 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Hmm.

 

I suppose once you'd vandalised all the churches and displaced the Anglican clergy, crushed the Levellers and slaughtered the Catholics in their tens of thousands, 

the 1650s were the model of inclusivity.

 

Mind you, for once the Jews got a free pass, so I guess it's swings and roundabouts.

 

The taking up of arms was by Puritans for Puritanism, not by parliamentarians and lawyers on constitutional  grounds. No one went to war because of Ship Money or rule without parliament, but, by God, they did when Laud wanted to put rood screens back. The idea that the Puritans were bigots was, and is, a widely held understanding.

 

 

I knew I liked him!

 

 

Liberal, they weren't.  Democratic, they weren't. Their tolerance, such as it was, was highly selective!

 

 

 

Sellar and Yeatman probably nailed it by declaring that the Cavaliers were wrong but romantic while the Roundheads were right but repulsive

[rocor]

21 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

By sympathies are Jacobite (when they're not Jacobin) but don't extend as far as Prince Rupert, who burned Birmingham down twice.

 

The people of Leicester had no great regard for him either.

[rocor]

33 minutes ago, Annie said:

They're a hard lot down in Dorset.

 

 

T Fooks? It certainly seems as though he did.

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

They're a hard lot down in Dorset.

 

 

No doubt prior to 7&8 Geo 4 C30 S13 those guilty of felonious injury to any part of the COUNTY BRIDGE would have had their necks stretched at Dorchester Gaol.  The bridge notice is pretty enlightened stuff!

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Hroth

[Nearholmer]

Are ypu sure it’s genuine?

 

Theres something about it that makes me wonder whether it might be a recent, picturesque, addition.

 

I don’t suppose you tried a magnet on it, did you?

[Compound2632]

21 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Are ypu sure it’s genuine?

 

Apparently there are several on bridges in the county. see pp. 16-17 here.

[Annie]

20 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Are you sure it’s genuine?

 

There's something about it that makes me wonder whether it might be a recent, picturesque, addition.

There were two photos of it taken 7 years apart with both the bridge and the notice looking like they'd been recently cleaned in the older photo.

[Nearholmer]

Looks as if it/they are very genuine.

[Regularity]

19 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Their tolerance, such as it was, was highly selective!

Most “revolutions” move power down one stratum only, if that - no matter what was claimed as an intention!

[Annie]

16 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Apparently there are several on bridges in the county. see pp. 16-17 here.

Does this mean that if they try to infill anymore historic bridges those responsible can be sent to Australia?

[Regularity]

20 hours ago, Edwardian said:

The idea that the Puritans were bigots was, and is, a widely held understanding.

No one disagreed with that, James. The point is that whilst most if not all puritans were Roundheads, that doesn’t mean that all Roundheads were puritans.

[Regularity]

3 hours ago, rocor said:

T Fooks? It certainly seems as though he did.

Can’t help wondering if the T stands for Tolpuddle!