Lockdown’s Last Lingerings - (Covid since L2 ended)

[LBRJ]

12 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

https://foodfoundation.org.uk/cheap-food-of-low-quality-hits-the-poor-hardest/

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/dec/14/obesity-diabetes-cheap-food-poverty

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/eating-healthy-diet-expensive-many-britons-research-finds/amp/

 

just a quick three and none from “lefty” sources. 
 

Andi

 

 

 

 

They are not figures they are just stories.

 

Ill go find out how much it costs to buy cheap but good food at Tesco....and it will be less than plate full of ready made crap.

[Nearholmer]

13 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

The best thing "any government" could do is bring back proper "Home Economics".

 

That would definitely help hugely, and there are glimmers of it happening (my son likes cooking and keeps moaning that since Covid there have been no practical cookery lessons at school).

 

Personally, I think something that sits deep down below a lot of the eating poorly, drinking too much etc, is lack of self-respect, or perhaps lack of self-valuing. Because of the way society in this country operates, far too many people are subtly, and sometimes not very subtly, told that they are no good, or at least aren't good enough to be highly valued by society, and a lot of people internalise that, genuinely, if silently, believe themselves to be second-rate, and treat themselves in a second-rate way ........ its a form of self-abuse almost.

 

So, as well as cookery classes, I'd prescribe some changes designed to make people feel positive about themselves, valued as part of society.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

6 minutes ago, hayfield said:

because too many failed to follow the governments and their medical advisers guidance rules,

 

To the extent that that is true: why?

 

To the extent that its true, why are us Brits so determined to ignore the rules?

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Nearholmer

[hayfield]

27 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

Unfortunately that has been proven time and again to not be true. 
 

Andi

 

Andi

 

Good food can be cheap, sadly bad food is equally cheap but no where as nutritious

 

Part of the problems is that for various reasons parents are loosing the ability to cook inexpensive nutritious food,

[hayfield]

3 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

To the extent that that is true: why?

 

To the extent that its true, why are us Brits so determined to ignore the rules?

 

 

 

Then blame it on someone else, its never their fault !!!

[Nearholmer]

So, why do they (we?) do that as a nation?

[LBRJ]

3 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

That would definitely help hugely, and there are glimmers of it happening (my son likes cooking and keeps moaning that since Covid their have been no practical cookery lessons at school).

 

Personally, I think something that sits deep down below a lot of the eating poorly, drinking too much etc, is lack of self-respect, or perhaps lack of self-valuing. Because of the way society in this country operates, far too many people are subtly, and sometimes not very subtly, told that they are no good, or at least aren't good enough to be highly valued by society, and a lot of people internalise that, genuinely, if silently, believe themselves to be second-rate, and treat themselves in a second-rate way ........ its a form of self-abuse almost.

 

So, as well as cookery classes, I'd prescribe some changes designed to make people feel positive about themselves, valued as part of society.

 

I could fill a thread on "Cooking and looking after yourself " all on me own!!  

Which mite not be the worst ever idea for a thread in a way.....with less input from me.....!

 

The need for people to be able to look after themselves is something I'm rather into, that and the need for people to have "shelter" (I'm actually quite an old style lefty, I'm just not at all "woke" - think Ernest Bevin not JC )

[hayfield]

Just now, Nearholmer said:

So, why do they (we?) do that as a nation?

 

 

Far too many people want something for nothing, sadly there is a growing trend for some to take the easy route in makeing money

[Nearholmer]

17 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Far too many people want something for nothing, sadly there is a growing trend for some to take the easy route in makeing money

 

I'm a bit lost as to how that connects with your assertion that we break our own covid-precaution rules more than other nations, and that that is the root of our troubles.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Nearholmer

[john new]

36 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

They are not figures they are just stories.

 

Ill go find out how much it costs to buy cheap but good food at Tesco....and it will be less than plate full of ready made crap.

Hopefully not making a non-essential fact finding visit!

 

Sorry couldn’t resist.

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, Neil said:

 

Poverty and inequality.

 

So you're saying that the reason we are fat and unhealthy is because of poverty.    And yet when I look at those in town that are fat & unhealthy they are from all stratas of society.

 

 I've always found it funny that in the club at the end of the road they show live football, a sport that if you took part in would give you a decent amount of exercise each week. The reality is that the majority that watch the game are sitting around in XXL football shirts drinking beer. 

Next door to me there are some flats and maisonettes that are cheap housing. During this pandemic I have been doing shopping for several of the occupants, all are on low or pension incomes but the requests for food are varied. One seems to eat quite well and he just wants veg and basic ingredients, the other 2 give me lists that have lots of sugar & fatty foods. Of the 3 the cheapest is the first with Veg the other 2 have bills of near twice the amount but with very little to show for what I've got them. 

 

The reality is that we eat crap in this country and we've become couch potatos. My BiL & Sister are franchisees for McDonalds, they have 17 restaurants and their turnover is £55,000,000.  That is a lot of fat and sugar and you don't even have to walk to the counter to get it. I have always told them that their profit margin increases in line with the country's  obesity problem.

But as well as the poor diet we have, we seem to have an unhealthy attitude to alcohol, not only do we drink too much but we binge on it.  

Sadly I think this lifestyle is too deep rooted now to change. 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

IMO, if you find a way to help people feel genuinely positive about themselves and life in general, there is a very strong probability that they will start looking after themselves properly - at its deepest, the malaise is in the mind. 

 

Thats why secure, positively-motivated, intelligent people tend to look after themselves best; a combination of high self-esteem and things to look forward to. Go jogging and eat whole food to live longer, because life is actually rather pleasant.

A huge swathe of the U.K. population don’t value themselves, or have enough genuinely positive things to look forward to, to bother looking after themselves, and it’s a vicious spiral, because self-neglect leads to feeling cr@p, leads to negativity, leads to more self-neglect.

 

Prescriptions?

 

- start valuing people on the basis of simple humanity rather than material possessions and consumption (people as people, rather than people as consumers);

 

- a lot less inequality, because inequality divides society into ‘the worthwhile’ and ‘the rest, who really aren’t valued’;

 

- better financial/work security, because insecurity trashes mental well-being;

 

- tackle the housing problem, because at the moment way too many people are living in housing that isn’t up to scratch in terms of spaciousness or quality of surroundings;

- break the cycle that requires two parents to work in order to afford a home in which to bring-up a family;

 

- vast amounts of educational work around healthy lifestyles;

 

- tax the bejesus out of the sale of junk food, pop, booze etc, so that it all becomes ‘luxury goods’;

 

- support the farming industry if that is necessary to promote decent food standards;

 

etc etc.

It’s really difficult, long-term stuff.

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Nearholmer

[AY Mod]

I like this...

 

 

[Oldddudders]

10 hours ago, LBRJ said:

 

I dont think it is anything about Lazy or Feckless, its more about  being scared to try, or even just not knowing what to do.

The best thing "any government" could do is bring back proper "Home Economics".

In the era of the Internet, the wealth of instantly-available info on how to cook is near-infinite. Those who choose not to are making a deliberate choice. You can take a horse to water etc. 

[Nick C]

54 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

IMO, if you find a way to help people feel genuinely positive about themselves and life in general, there is a very strong probability that they will start looking after themselves properly - at its deepest, the malaise is in the mind. 

 

Thats why secure, positively-motivated, intelligent people tend to look after themselves best; a combination of high self-esteem and things to look forward to. Go jogging and eat whole food to live longer, because life is actually rather pleasant.

A huge swathe of the U.K. population don’t value themselves, or have enough genuinely positive things to look forward to, to bother looking after themselves, and it’s a vicious spiral, because self-neglect leads to feeling cr@p, leads to negativity, leads to more self-neglect.

 

Prescriptions?

 

- start valuing people on the basis of simple humanity rather than material possessions and consumption (people as people, rather than people as consumers);

 

- a lot less inequality, because inequality divides society into ‘the worthwhile’ and ‘the rest, who really aren’t valued’;

 

- better financial/work security, because insecurity trashes mental well-being;

 

- tackle the housing problem, because at the moment way too many people are living in housing that isn’t up to scratch in terms of spaciousness or quality of surroundings;

- break the cycle that requires two parents to work in order to afford a home in which to bring-up a family;

 

- vast amounts of educational work around healthy lifestyles;

 

- tax the bejesus out of the sale of junk food, pop, booze etc, so that it all becomes ‘luxury goods’;

 

- support the farming industry if that is necessary to promote decent food standards;

 

etc etc.

It’s really difficult, long-term stuff.

 

 

I think tacklikng 2 and 3 would go a long way towards solving 4 and 5 on that list - We don't have a housing shortage in this country, we have a housing shortage in the areas where most jobs are (i.e. London and the SE), combined with an entrenched viewpoint that, to get anywhere, you have to live in that area - leading to a geographical inequality that forces people to move. Hopefully that's something that the increase in WFH will help with, as people will no longer need to be in commuting distance of London.

 

Also I think it needs a shift in educational styles - we have too much of the "teach them to pass the test" type learning in our curriculums, wheras others seem to have more of an emphasis on life skills.

[lapford34102]

Local nedia reporting R number in Kent now below 1. Even had one source wondering if kent variant "was burning itself out" in some communities. We'll see but hospital/deaths still going up.albeit more slowly. Wonder if anyone looking back on their xmas festivities and thinking OH!

Stu

[Bernard Lamb]

10 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

To the extent that that is true: why?

 

To the extent that its true, why are us Brits so determined to ignore the rules?

 

 

Where do you want to start?

Sir Walter Raleigh would be as good a point as any.

But from Robin Hood to the Kray Twins outlaws have always had a loyal following, with many people having a desire to imitate them, even if in a very minor way.

It is something that SWMBO noted as an outsider when she came to England.

As to why, I do not have a clue.

Bernard

[hayfield]

9 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

So you're saying that the reason we are fat and unhealthy is because of poverty.    And yet when I look at those in town that are fat & unhealthy they are from all stratas of society.

 

 I've always found it funny that in the club at the end of the road they show live football, a sport that if you took part in would give you a decent amount of exercise each week. The reality is that the majority that watch the game are sitting around in XXL football shirts drinking beer. 

Next door to me there are some flats and maisonettes that are cheap housing. During this pandemic I have been doing shopping for several of the occupants, all are on low or pension incomes but the requests for food are varied. One seems to eat quite well and he just wants veg and basic ingredients, the other 2 give me lists that have lots of sugar & fatty foods. Of the 3 the cheapest is the first with Veg the other 2 have bills of near twice the amount but with very little to show for what I've got them. 

 

The reality is that we eat crap in this country and we've become couch potatos. My BiL & Sister are franchisees for McDonalds, they have 17 restaurants and their turnover is £55,000,000.  That is a lot of fat and sugar and you don't even have to walk to the counter to get it. I have always told them that their profit margin increases in line with the country's  obesity problem.

But as well as the poor diet we have, we seem to have an unhealthy attitude to alcohol, not only do we drink too much but we binge on it.  

Sadly I think this lifestyle is too deep rooted now to change. 

 

 

 

 

Dave

 

It is far easier to eat well and exercise more if you have money, plus the better educated are more likely to do something about their health and wellbeing. But as you say being overweight is not the province of being poor as I guess as many fat people are wealthy

 

Again being poor does not mean you have to eat junk food, it may be slightly more difficult to eat healthily and my daughter (not through financial constraints) gave up her gym membership, but keeps very fit from home

 

Its all too easy to blame poverty and inequality for all of societies' ills.  Like all things it has some truth to it but all levels of society are drawn to eating and drinking to many of the things that make us unhealthy. Perhaps we should increase the sugar tax further as well as taxing unhealthy food higher, even ringfencing part of the tax to subsidize fitness activities for all 

[Nearholmer]

I agree. We have a really bizarre culture which counts success in terms of one person in a million acquiring vast riches, by a quick flash of wit, and with a bit of bravado, even if unscrupulously, as being far better than ten million people working hard and diligently to achieve minor prosperity. We sure as heck love a pirate, and don't laud steady hard work.

 

IMO its a decidedly stupid culture compared with, say, what Germans value, but how you'd ever change it????

[Reorte]

On food, a large part of it is that unhealthy foods are simply often appealing foods. We need fat and sugar, they weren't easy to get in the environment we evolved in, so we evolved an extra strong desire for them that pushed us to expend precious energy in pursuit of them. But because of that desire we invented means of getting them easily so, and thus it becomes easy to over-indulge.

 

As for time, funny how as we keep pushing for everything to be faster and more "convenient" we seem to get more and more stressed for time. So IMO most appeals for those are shortsighted and unhelpful (there's a happy medium somewhere though).

[Nick C]

3 minutes ago, Reorte said:

On food, a large part of it is that unhealthy foods are simply often appealing foods. We need fat and sugar, they weren't easy to get in the environment we evolved in, so we evolved an extra strong desire for them that pushed us to expend precious energy in pursuit of them. But because of that desire we invented means of getting them easily so, and thus it becomes easy to over-indulge.

 

As for time, funny how as we keep pushing for everything to be faster and more "convenient" we seem to get more and more stressed for time. So IMO most appeals for those are shortsighted and unhelpful (there's a happy medium somewhere though).

Plus of course the huge quantities of advertising for poor quality food targeted at particular segments of society - often the most vulnerable.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Nick C

[boxbrownie]

13 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Sadly the reason for this is not really the fault of the government (of any colour), it's because we are fat and unhealthy as a nation but nobody wants to admit it.

Bit ironic........considering your avatar name........

 

Poor/uneducated can’t cook/won’t cook........the rich just eat too much.......generalisations of course, but sadly closer to the truth than anyone cares to admit.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

I like this...

 

 

I laughed at it, because the comedy made it so hard to ignore the message.......excellent.

[boxbrownie]

12 hours ago, LBRJ said:

It not opening the can of worms that is the issue, its  the opening of the share size bag of Doritos, a packet of chocolate biscuits and a litre of Coke whilst watchin the TV after a hard day sat in the office....

The unemployment office?

[billbedford]

59 minutes ago, Reorte said:

On food, a large part of it is that unhealthy foods are simply often appealing foods. We need fat and sugar, they weren't easy to get in the environment we evolved in, so we evolved an extra strong desire for them that pushed us to expend precious energy in pursuit of them.

 

We need fat and protein. There are no essential carbohydrates. But sweet starchy foods are cheap and profitable to made so for the last ~50 years our diet has to reflect what the food industry wants to provide.