Boeing 737 Max - back in service

[duncan]

Had a fantastic flight to Perpignan in a Comet, quiet & smooth.  Seemed pretty large for the airport as it wound round & over small parked planes, one of the best flights I have ever had.

[mezzoman253]

On the BBC web site https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55372499

 

"737 Max: Boeing 'inappropriately coached' pilots in test after crashes"

 

Rob

[rob D2]

You know the BBC person writing does not know much about aircraft when they include the phrase “ nose dive “. 
 

Dive will do just fine ，pitch down better ..

[jchinuk]

15 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

You know the BBC person writing does not know much about aircraft when they include the phrase “ nose dive “. 
 

Dive will do just fine ，pitch down better ..

 

To be fair, 99% or more of those reading it will know exactly what "nose dive" means, though I admit a "tail dive" would be a good aerobatic manoeuvre.   Pitch down would mean nothing to the general public.

 

jch

[Jeff Smith]

Nose dive has more dramatic effect even though not strictly a technical term.

[rob D2]

48 minutes ago, jchinuk said:

 

To be fair, 99% or more of those reading it will know exactly what "nose dive" means, though I admit a "tail dive" would be a good aerobatic manoeuvre.   Pitch down would mean nothing to the general public.

 

jch

True , I’m just not sure where nose dive comes from , I suppose you can a tail slide in an aerobatic aircraft but not a max 

[Guest]

Of course the terminology used by the BBC is much more important than Boeing fiddling processes. 

[rob D2]

9 minutes ago, 30801 said:

Of course the terminology used by the BBC is much more important than Boeing fiddling processes. 

“ unsubstantiated “. There’s two sides to every story .

[melmerby]

10 minutes ago, 30801 said:

Of course the terminology used by the BBC is much more important than Boeing fiddling processes. 

Yes.

Once again taking aim at the Beeb for not being technically fluent, whilst ignoring the main context of the message.

These are journalists not members of the aviation industry.

Edited December 19, 2020 by melmerby

[melmerby]

3 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

“ unsubstantiated “. There’s two sides to every story .

The outcome of a Senate commitee investigation.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-boeing-737-max/boeing-inappropriately-coached-pilots-in-737-max-testing-u-s-senate-report-idUKKBN28S314

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

You know the BBC person writing does not know much about aircraft when they include the phrase “ nose dive “. 
 

Dive will do just fine ，pitch down better ..

 

1 hour ago, jchinuk said:

 

To be fair, 99% or more of those reading it will know exactly what "nose dive" means, though I admit a "tail dive" would be a good aerobatic manoeuvre.   Pitch down would mean nothing to the general public.

 

jch

As a layman will understand the term 'nose dive', it more accurately portrays the message required than using technical jargon a pilot may understand but me, someone who doesn't fly a plane, wont.

[25901]

On 05/12/2020 at 06:00, Ozexpatriate said:

The square window Comet was a death trap. Once resolved, the Comet was a "safe" aircraft but was never commercially successful again.

Well the military version lasted in RAF service til June 2011, better know as Nimrod

[rob D2]

29 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The outcome of a Senate commitee investigation.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-boeing-737-max/boeing-inappropriately-coached-pilots-in-737-max-testing-u-s-senate-report-idUKKBN28S314

Ok , fair enough , thought bbc one said unsubstantiated .

 

one reacted in 4 seconds and one in 16 seconds ... both pretty good I reckon if they didn’t know what was coming .

 

we have a drill for runaway stab trim ( not entirely dissimilar ) I hope I’d be sufficiently on the ball to carry out the memory items in under 5 s.

[woodenhead]

19 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

we have a drill for runaway stab trim ( not entirely dissimilar ) I hope I’d be sufficiently on the ball to carry out the memory items in under 5 s.

And that is exactly why 'nose dive' is a perfectly good description for a journalist to use because I have no idea what what you are on about

[mezzoman253]

Ryanair to use 737 Max on UK services. https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-boeing-737-max-uk-launch/amp/

 

Rob

[Kickstart]

3 minutes ago, mezzoman253 said:

Ryanair to use 737 Max on UK services. https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-boeing-737-max-uk-launch/amp/

 

Rob

They will probably add an extra charge for a safe landing.......

 

All the best

 

Katy

[melmerby]

11 minutes ago, mezzoman253 said:

Ryanair to use 737 Max on UK services. https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-boeing-737-max-uk-launch/amp/

 

Rob

But would you want to fly on one after Boeing's total disregard for safety?

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/01/07/boeing-fined-2-5-billion-over-737-max-fraud-doj-says/6587870002/

[mezzoman253]

18 minutes ago, melmerby said:

But would you want to fly on one after Boeing's total disregard for safety?

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/01/07/boeing-fined-2-5-billion-over-737-max-fraud-doj-says/6587870002/

Not particularly, but by the time I may have to use their service to Memmingen(if they use it on that service, or if it's still a route by then) there will have been many more flights, hopefully all with no issues.

 

Rob

 

 

 

[kevinlms]

33 minutes ago, melmerby said:

But would you want to fly on one after Boeing's total disregard for safety?

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/01/07/boeing-fined-2-5-billion-over-737-max-fraud-doj-says/6587870002/

After that highly expensive short cut, which has cost them hugely more than they saved, I suspect that NOW, there will be nothing wrong with them. They simply can't risk more problems with that plane.

[Pete the Elaner]

Ryanair's fleet is largely (almost exclusively) 737's so it makes financial sense to stick with that design & they are quite open about putting cost first.

The lead time for an airliner like this is 8-10 years so you can't just pick up the phone & buy a couple of Airbuses.

 

For anyone who is concerned about flying on a Max, EasyJet are an Airbus operator. Many of their flights are from different airports though: Ryanair use Stansted quite heavily & EasyJet use Luton. This may be useful to some but not to others.

[kevinlms]

6 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Ryanair's fleet is largely (almost exclusively) 737's so it makes financial sense to stick with that design & they are quite open about putting cost first.

The lead time for an airliner like this is 8-10 years so you can't just pick up the phone & buy a couple of Airbuses.

 

For anyone who is concerned about flying on a Max, EasyJet are an Airbus operator. Many of their flights are from different airports though: Ryanair use Stansted quite heavily & EasyJet use Luton. This may be useful to some but not to others.

You probably COULD pick up an Airbus cheaply at present. There must be plenty of nearly new ones in storage around the world.

 

But perhaps not, since it seems the A320neo is one which seem to have most flying still.

[rob D2]

I shouldn’t worry - Ryanair training is very good, it has to be as their pilots are frequently of very low experience in both seats. They wouldn’t short cut on any extra they have to do.

 

Bear in mind - there is a cost in everything . Years ago it was deemed that rear facing seats were the most crashworthy , but no airline wanted a) the cost b) to be the first to do it in case customers turned away .

 

I believe southwest as one of the lead customers , specified a financial penalty payable if each pilot required extra training to go from the NG to the MAX.

[burgundy]

2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Bear in mind - there is a cost in everything . Years ago it was deemed that rear facing seats were the most crashworthy , but no airline wanted a) the cost b) to be the first to do it in case customers turned away .

 

Admittedly not an airline in the normal sense, but the RAF VC10 fleet all had rear facing seats. Of course, customer resistance was not really an issue. It was quite disconcerting to be hanging forward in your seatbelt as the aircraft climbed out. 

The other disconcerting feature was the free cold shower that was installed for the row of seats just forward of the main door.  As you descended,  condensation on the inside of the fuselage skin would run forward until it reached the spar that came through the cabin interior, at which point it descended on the lucky occupants of these seats. The loadmaster would arrive with a roll of kitchen towel just a second or so too late. 

Best wishes 

Eric      

[rob D2]

14 minutes ago, burgundy said:

Admittedly not an airline in the normal sense, but the RAF VC10 fleet all had rear facing seats. Of course, customer resistance was not really an issue. It was quite disconcerting to be hanging forward in your seatbelt as the aircraft climbed out. 

The other disconcerting feature was the free cold shower that was installed for the row of seats just forward of the main door.  As you descended,  condensation on the inside of the fuselage skin would run forward until it reached the spar that came through the cabin interior, at which point it descended on the lucky occupants of these seats. The loadmaster would arrive with a roll of kitchen towel just a second or so too late. 

Best wishes 

Eric      

Still happens on 787 - Ice melts in emergency escape hatch as you descend showering any jumpseat occupant 

[Kickstart]

27 minutes ago, burgundy said:

Admittedly not an airline in the normal sense, but the RAF VC10 fleet all had rear facing seats. Of course, customer resistance was not really an issue. It was quite disconcerting to be hanging forward in your seatbelt as the aircraft climbed out. 

The other disconcerting feature was the free cold shower that was installed for the row of seats just forward of the main door.  As you descended,  condensation on the inside of the fuselage skin would run forward until it reached the spar that came through the cabin interior, at which point it descended on the lucky occupants of these seats. The loadmaster would arrive with a roll of kitchen towel just a second or so too late. 

Best wishes 

Eric      

I quite like facing backwards. Don’t find it disconcerting, rather just a bit different. Did the BAC 111 have a row of rearward facing seats at the front of the cabin? Can’t remember if it was that or the Trident I flew in with those.

 

All the best

 

Katy