Formula 1 2021

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, 298 said:

chief apologist DC said the rules state you only have to give the place back (and there is no expectation to be sporting about it).

Did you see the interview with Toto, (sky on YouTube), who smiled when asked about the one where Max gave it away then instantly got it back with DRS? He obviously thought that was cleverly done and within the rules. That’s no doubt gone in every teams playbook now!

[Andrew P]

This will make him popular with Michael Masi.

 

F1 missed Charlie Whiting at Saudi GP, says Christian Horner

https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/32802888/f1-missed-charlie-whiting-saudi-gp-says-christian-horner

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, 298 said:

but I do think LH has used up all of his luck, especially with that spicy front wing that gets driven over twice but still manages to win with.

 

10 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Verstappen doesn't need to finish as long as Hamilton doesn't finish.

 

I feel we've just seen the tactics Max will use to ensure that outcome as well. As he's suffered no penalties that would deter such driving he won't care.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Hobby

[Andrew P]

Norris slates F1’s “worst rule ever invented” after red flag misfortune.

 

https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/06/free-tyre-changes-under-red-flags-possibly-the-worst-rule-ever-invented-norris/

[woodenhead]

6 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Did you see the interview with Toto, (sky on YouTube), who smiled when asked about the one where Max gave it away then instantly got it back with DRS? He obviously thought that was cleverly done and within the rules. That’s no doubt gone in every teams playbook now!

I think they will be looking at how positions are given back and where going forwards, the stewards recognised that the collision between Hamilton and Verstappen was because Verstappen had been told to strategically give him the place back and neither wanted to pass before the DRS line.  When Verstappen then suddenly braked it was either to incur the collision or to make Hamilton shoot past him.

[Hobby]

2 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Norris slates F1’s “worst rule ever invented” after red flag misfortune.

 

https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/06/free-tyre-changes-under-red-flags-possibly-the-worst-rule-ever-invented-norris/

 

I think he'll find himself in agreement with Lewis in that!!

[Hobby]

Deleted, misread the post.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Hobby

[LNERandBR]

I think the ability to work on cars during Red Flag periods is to allow damage to be repaired.

 

Like if you have a puncture or front wing damage it would be unsafe to allow that car to take the restart.

[woodenhead]

2 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Or am I being too cynical?

Well what with the weaving, the narrowness of the straight there, sudden braking and 'strategic' discussion hmmmmmmmmmm let me think about it.

[woodenhead]

In all of this though, actually, Hamilton was always going to win - Verstappen's tyres faded badly whilst Hamilton was still putting in a fastest lap of the race with a damaged front wing.

[Hobby]

2 minutes ago, LNERandBR said:

I think the ability to work on cars during Red Flag periods is to allow damage to be repaired.

 

Like if you have a puncture or front wing damage it would be unsafe to allow that car to take the restart.

 

Agreed, but then if you go from waved yellows to red (did they actually replace the barriers which was the reason for the reds?) then to ensure fairness the positions of the cars should be as they were at the beginning of the yellows to negate what happened yesterday which was clearly unfair on certain drivers and would ensure everyone was able to start on equal footings (or wheels!)... 

[RedgateModels]

The FIA needs to have a good hard think about what needs to be said in the driver's briefing for Abu Dhabi if a Prost/Schumacher incident is to be avoided. Max will 100% take out Hamilton if nothing is said or put into place.

 

Docked points must be on the table

[PaulRhB]

Surely the simplest thing is to ban tyre changes on anyone who enters the pit lane after the safety car/ red flag has been announced, they can take a gamble if the team see a crash and the car entering the lane beats the announcement. If they have worn tyres they just wait in the queue and if they are punctured or dangerous then they must be kept outside the garage on camera until collected by a FIA / Pirelli scrutiniser as proof, bend the rule and get a fixed 5 place penalty on final result?

[woodenhead]

5 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Surely the simplest thing is to ban tyre changes on anyone who enters the pit lane after the safety car/ red flag has been announced, they can take a gamble if the team see a crash and the car entering the lane beats the announcement. If they have worn tyres they just wait in the queue and if they are punctured or dangerous then they must be kept outside the garage on camera until collected by a FIA / Pirelli scrutiniser as proof, bend the rule and get a fixed 5 place penalty on final result?

I think positions should be locked to the positions at the point the yellow flag commenced should it become a red flag situation so no-one has benefited.

 

However, the complication may be when perhaps the yellow has been on for some time with cars circulating and then being red flagged as some cars who have swapped tyres under the yellows then find other cars have newer tyres under them - but it has to be better than yesterday's farce.

[57xx]

1 hour ago, Andrew P said:

This will make him popular with Michael Masi.

 

F1 missed Charlie Whiting at Saudi GP, says Christian Horner

https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/32802888/f1-missed-charlie-whiting-saudi-gp-says-christian-horner

 

He's right, he just doesn't see the irony of what he is saying. RB would have been slapped down and brought in to line way earlier in the season.

[RJS1977]

12 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

If level on points, then it is results based - most race wins will win.

The only way now they can finish level on points if they are well down the order (9th/10th) and the 10th driver gets fastest lap.

 

Or neither driver scores points.

[SR71]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

 

Agreed, but then if you go from waved yellows to red (did they actually replace the barriers which was the reason for the reds?) then to ensure fairness the positions of the cars should be as they were at the beginning of the yellows to negate what happened yesterday which was clearly unfair on certain drivers and would ensure everyone was able to start on equal footings (or wheels!)... 

According to BBC podcast stoppage was for 8mins only and no significant damage was found. Very odd to throw a red when it was yet to be determined if a barrier needed replacing.

 

That decision arguably created the chaos that followed. If it didn't almost gift Max the championship I'd argue that the race should be stricken from the record.

 

Terrible track akin to something I'd create in the Easter school holidays when everyone put their scalextrix together in the front room... Only in most locations we had more run off.

 

Fortunately yesterday there was no one in a 6r4 to crash into the fireplace attempting v-max.

[Andrew P]

I don't think we have ever had one Race that has gifted so many Pages on here, both prior to the Race with speculation, (including me) and now, and I recon this will rumble on at least until next Friday.

[mudmagnet]

1 hour ago, RedgateModels said:

The FIA needs to have a good hard think about what needs to be said in the driver's briefing for Abu Dhabi if a Prost/Schumacher incident is to be avoided. Max will 100% take out Hamilton if nothing is said or put into place.

 

Docked points must be on the table

I'd agree, but either won't happen or MV will ignore anyway. Let's face it, he has not followed many of the rules or sportsmanship when it unless it suits him.

 

 

[Andrew P]

Wolff fears title-deciding crash if F1 fails to learn from Jeddah controversies.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/06/wolff-fears-title-deciding-crash-if-f1-fails-to-learn-from-jeddah-controversies/

[andyman7]

I've been following the sport for nigh on 30 years and this is a real humdinger of a title fight. When it's this close between two exceptional drivers, it always gets a bit nasty. Although I'm a Lewis fan, I think the luck/decisions/penalties have worked out fairly evenly notwithstanding the inconsistencies and undoubted issues over the rules and interpretation thereof that have been raised. I reckon that for every person saying the broadcasters/FIA/whoever are biased one way there's someone saying the opposite too, evens there too. However...I can't help thinking that an unequivocal announcement BEFORE the Abu Dhabi race that any driver who is deemed 'at fault' for taking another driver out of the race would get an automatic points deduction (let's face it, half a point would do...) would help focus minds on racing rather than other tactics next weekend.

[Hobby]

48 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Wolff fears title-deciding crash if F1 fails to learn from Jeddah controversies.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/06/wolff-fears-title-deciding-crash-if-f1-fails-to-learn-from-jeddah-controversies/

 

Sounding a warning shot... Doubt it will be heeded, though...

[didcot]

I think Schumacher was thrown out of the drivers championship for driving into Villeneuve, so there is form.

[ejstubbs]

3 hours ago, mudmagnet said:

I'd agree, but either won't happen or MV will ignore anyway. Let's face it, he has not followed many of the rules or sportsmanship when it unless it suits him.

 

He always seemed to be bleating on the radio about other drivers doing things that "shouldn't be allowed".  The irony is deafening...

 

I don't usually watch the races these days, but I did watch the highlights of this one on C4 just to try to make sense of the rather confusing and difficult to follow live reporting on the BBC web site.  I ended up watching most of it with the sound muted, having found the inane babbling of the C4 commentary team both annoying and depressing at the same time.

 

One vaguely useful piece of information that I think I did glean from DC, during the brief periods that I had the sound on was regarding the "tactics" about where Max wanted to give back the position to Lewis.  I think DC said that you are supposed to give up the place for at least one corner, which rather suggests that taking advantage of DRS to nip straight back in front again may not be kosher (and might even be why MV eventually gave the place up again?)

 

The coverage of the end of the race was marred for me by the producer concentrating on LH circulating on his own for pretty much the whole of the last two laps, when Ocon and Bottas were at it hammer and tongs for third place.

 

All in all I thought it a pretty disappointing race IMO.  And I have to say that I'm not looking forward to the season finale, given how close it is and the questionable attitude of one of the competitors concerned.

 

1 hour ago, didcot said:

I think Schumacher was thrown out of the drivers championship for driving into Villeneuve, so there is form.

 

That didn't make any difference to the result, though, because Schumacher had to retire from the race as a result of the collision and Villeneuve carried on to score the points he needed to win the WDC.  In fact the only difference it made was that Schumacher was disqualified from the championship: all his race results and points from the season were retained, it's just that he wasn't awarded any place in the championship results (Heinz-Harald Frentzen took second place in the other Williams, and everyone else was also bumped up one place - DC got third, equal on points with Jean Alesi but classified ahead on race wins I think).  Ferrari still came second to Williams in the constructors' championship.

Edited December 6, 2021 by ejstubbs

[njee20]

That’s a technicality, he was still thrown out. I’m sure if Lewis was told “you’re going to be given the win because we DQ’d Max, but technically you’re still level on points” he’d take it.