Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[APOLLO]

Avanti - Yes, I should know by now,  the things fly past my house every hour !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

[Pete the Elaner]

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

 

I wonder if UEFA is thinking the same thing about visiting the UK over the next two weeks ? Hosting several international matches right in the middle of a spike might not be the best of ideas and i’m sure a few foreign governments are thinking about this.

 

 

 

The same UEFA who dragged 2 British teams to Portugal for a final, knowing that thousands of fans would follow them?

They could have moved this to Britain, but why didn't they?

[adb968008]

17 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

The same UEFA who dragged 2 British teams to Portugal for a final, knowing that thousands of fans would follow them?

They could have moved this to Britain, but why didn't they?

For the same reasons they might want to move it away.

[Halvarras]

12 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

And a few people were still wearing masks, most have now ditched them. I was wearing one, only for appearances sake. I don't want a fine or some numpty starting a fight.

 

It's virtually back to normal.

 

Time for freedom I reckon. Permanently.

 

On 19th July that's it. No more restrictions.

 

 

 

That's the only reason I wear a mask too, and I wear it as little as possible. One of the first things I learned in biology lessons at school was that human beings inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide. Breathing in your own exhaust for extended periods is a very bad idea, so anyone who thinks masks are the new normal is not living in the real world.

 

As for 19th July, I'm sure a Timbuktu or Outer Mongolian variant is already waiting in the wings to scupper that. Watch this space, we'll know soon enough. But I'm with you - 19th July that's it. If we don't stand up for ourselves we'll lose everything.

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

 

That's the only reason I wear a mask too, and I wear it as little as possible. One of the first things I learned in biology lessons at school was that human beings inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide. Breathing in your own exhaust for extended periods is a very bad idea, so anyone who thinks masks are the new normal is not living in the real world.

 

As for 19th July, I'm sure a Timbuktu or Outer Mongolian variant is already waiting in the wings to scupper that. Watch this space, we'll know soon enough. But I'm with you - 19th July that's it. If we don't stand up for ourselves we'll lose everything.

What the heck sort of masks have you been wearing? The usual blue ones allow air to pass through freely in both directions; their main function is to stop/slow down particles carried in exhaled breath, coughs and sneezes. 

 

Whatever relaxation happens on the 19th, I'll continue to carry one and put it on when in shops, on public transport, and anywhere else it feels like a good idea. However, the purpose of my mask is gradually changing from protecting others to primarily protecting myself. 

 

If we attempt 100% of what used to be normal before "herd immunity" is established (probably in early October, at the present rate of progress) the inevitable path is back to where we were 12 months ago, and all the vaccination programme will achieve is to slow that process down. Like it or not, if we want to keep the lid on this thing, some precautions are going to be necessary for the foreseeable future. 

 

As for the last bit, if you lose your life, all the rest instantly becomes S.E.P, doesn't it? 

 

John

[Neil]

3 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

 

..... But I'm with you - 19th July that's it. If we don't stand up for ourselves we'll lose everything.

 

Really?

[Nearholmer]

No, not really.

 

Citizens of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your lungs!

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Hal Nail]

19 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

What's the collective view of train and bus travel at the moment? 

I work at professional tennis tournaments which have been held during lockdown and as I dont have a car, have used tubes, trains and buses.

 

As everyone is regularly tested (incidentally only 2 positives in around 10 weeks) travel feels by far the least safe aspect.

 

Trains by and large have been quiet and I've felt totally comfortable. At one point I was typically having the carriage to myself and even now there is plenty of space even in peak times although of course numbers will pick up. Busses not too bad either but tubes are far too busy to distance, people often not leaving seats between and I've got off more than once when there wasnt even room to stand away from others.

 

First time I travelled felt daunting and of course things take getting used to again but once double vaccinated, frankly I dont think it's ever going to get much better than now as there are always going to be variants we need another booster for etc etc

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Hal Nail

[Hal Nail]

5 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

Breathing in your own exhaust for extended periods is a very bad idea

Conversely they have now proven that the proper fitted medical masks cut covid cases almost completeley for those medical staff working in covid wards. They failed to mention how many of them asphyxiated.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Hal Nail

[Stephen Freeman]

Frankly I am thinking that this Government is throwing in the towel altogether, egged on by the media and general population. Cases are going up very rapidly, Hospitals are starting to fill up, we may not have the number in hospital yet but almost inevitably the rate of admission will accelerate and with the increase in the number of cases the chances of a new more virulent variant increase and we will then be well and truly stuffed. Doomed I tell you! Doomed!!

 

We are Double jabbed but we are carrying on with Social Distancing and Masks.

[Stephen Freeman]

26 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Conversely they have now proven that the proper fitted medical masks cut covid cases almost completeley for those medical staff working in covid wards. They failed to mention how many of them asphyxiated.

Nil. Some of the staff who might have had decent PPE when they should have had it would probably still be alive today. We know personally of several. For instance a 29 year old nurse, who left behind a baby and husband (who is a Doctor) as a direct result. It's just not right.

[Oldddudders]

7 minutes ago, Stephen Freeman said:

Nil. Some of the staff who might have had decent PPE when they should have had it would probably still be alive today. We know personally of several. For instance a 29 year old nurse, who left behind a baby and husband (who is a Doctor) as a direct result. It's just not right.

Utterly tragic. But by this time last year it had become clear that the majority of sufferers and victims were olde ghytts and ghytesses. This time Delta seems rather more effective with younger people, and among those who haven't heeded HMG's offer of jabs there may be more unpleasant stories such as the one above. The NHS may cope better, but society will be much more horrified at losing sons and daughters in their prime, many of whom, of course, have now reached that age where they know far more than their parents, don't need telling,  and will just be alright..... I hope uptake of vaccine proves me quite wrong. 

 

I got my second AZ yesterday, and an EU certificate with QR code etc. My cleaner, her partner, and her eldest son are all getting a first Moderna jab today here, where there is often a choice. Alison is needle-phobic, having once had a needle break off in her arm. The two younger sons must wait until dad - estranged and in Aberystwyth - consents in writing. 

[Hobby]

40 minutes ago, Stephen Freeman said:

Frankly I am thinking that this Government is throwing in the towel altogether, egged on by the media and general population. Cases are going up very rapidly, Hospitals are starting to fill up, we may not have the number in hospital yet but almost inevitably the rate of admission will accelerate and with the increase in the number of cases the chances of a new more virulent variant increase and we will then be well and truly stuffed. Doomed I tell you! Doomed!!

 

We are Double jabbed but we are carrying on with Social Distancing and Masks.

 

Frankly that's scaremongering. 

 

Even in the places where the delta varient has been rife hospitals haven't been overloaded and numbers in those areas are now level/ decreasing. Those areas were also known for their low vaccine take up though again that is changing.

 

So the evidence says that whilst infection numbers are high hospital numbers aren't and with more people getting vaccinated those numbers will fall. 

 

I agree with some others that certain things, such as the space and cleanliness should be continued, and the wearing of masks indoors, but see no reason not to lift other restrictions fairly soon. 

[Reorte]

6 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

 

That's the only reason I wear a mask too, and I wear it as little as possible. One of the first things I learned in biology lessons at school was that human beings inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide. Breathing in your own exhaust for extended periods is a very bad idea, so anyone who thinks masks are the new normal is not living in the real world.

We're talking masks, not putting a plastic bag over your head.

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, Stephen Freeman said:

Frankly I am thinking that this Government is throwing in the towel altogether, egged on by the media and general population. Cases are going up very rapidly, Hospitals are starting to fill up, we may not have the number in hospital yet but almost inevitably the rate of admission will accelerate and with the increase in the number of cases the chances of a new more virulent variant increase and we will then be well and truly stuffed. Doomed I tell you! Doomed!!

 

We are Double jabbed but we are carrying on with Social Distancing and Masks.

 

Bolton yet again - always useful since it's the furthest along in this.

 

Peak case rate similar to January, now very much declining. The number of hospital admissions is also in decline there now, peak number of admissions was less than half this time around, and the total number in hospital has also peaked there and is in decline, at a third of the January peak (it was slightly higher in November than Jan, but the number in hospital there was roughly the same peak in April 2020, November, and Jan). Deaths maybe a quarter of what they were.

 

And Bolton is below average on vaccination, even with the recent drive to boost takeup there (which will be too recent to have had a significant impact yet anyway).

[Crisis Rail]

6 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

 

That's the only reason I wear a mask too, and I wear it as little as possible. One of the first things I learned in biology lessons at school was that human beings inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide. Breathing in your own exhaust for extended periods is a very bad idea, so anyone who thinks masks are the new normal is not living in the real world.

 

As for 19th July, I'm sure a Timbuktu or Outer Mongolian variant is already waiting in the wings to scupper that. Watch this space, we'll know soon enough. But I'm with you - 19th July that's it. If we don't stand up for ourselves we'll lose everything.

 

Good post.

 

Strong point of view  - and before the Hyenas on here start to circle.

[Crisis Rail]

3 hours ago, Neil said:

 

Really?

 

Yes  - were well on the way.

[Oldddudders]

I see the "all pulling together" spirit is alive and well. Chris Whitty being accosted and held against his will in a London park. Where do these low-lifes get their ideas? UK scientists, not always heeded by HMG, have made huge contributions to digging the country out of the deepest doo-doo. Thanks to their efforts, humanity may not be doomed - but evidently parts of it are f****d.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Stephen Freeman said:

Nil. Some of the staff who might have had decent PPE when they should have had it would probably still be alive today. We know personally of several. For instance a 29 year old nurse, who left behind a baby and husband (who is a Doctor) as a direct result. It's just not right.

Absolutely correct, my Son has lost a few friends in the profession, some young some old……and his answer to some of this thread would be unrepeatable.

Edited June 29, 2021 by boxbrownie

[alastairq]

Strikes me there are far too many folk in this country,  who , quite simply, cannot cope with adversity?

The naysayers, the anti vaxxers, the covid deniers, those who think their freedoms have been denied.....?

 

They simply, cannot cope.

What if  it wasn't covid, but some form of ebola?

 

I wear a mask where I am required to, simply to stop all of you lot getting what I've got!!!   You dont want what I've got, honest!!!

 

My point is, it's a responsibility.

 

Those tests can't be any good.........they tell me every time I'm negative!   

 

 

[Nearholmer]

9 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

Strong point of view  - and before the Hyenas on here start to circle.

Speaking as a ‘hyena’, I would say that ‘strong’ isn’t a synonym for ‘above challenge’, nor is it a synonym for ‘incontrovertibly correct’.

 

Its a point of view, and nobody has challenged the right to hold it, they’ve simply challenged it.

 

Now I’ll state ‘a strong point of view’:

 

- very few indeed are actually happy that our freedom of movement and association has been restricted in order to control the damage done by the virus;

 

- some people think there should be more/longer-lasting precautions, some think there should be fewer/shorter, and a small minority think there should be none at all;

 

- most people seem to be somewhere in the grey middle ground, and accept to varying degrees that the restrictions this year in the U.K. have been proportionate;

 

- we have a parliament that is, in this instance, pretty effective at periodic scrutiny of whether or not the restrictions are proportionate, and certainly contains voices that put the view that they are overly onerous (which view has consistently failed to attract a majority so far);

 

- the entire world is caught in the same dilemma, and most governments, a few led by populist demagogues aside (and even they have cracked under the strain), have reached pretty much the same conclusions about what has to be done, applying local flavours of the same, very limited, range of nostrums;

 

- it stretches credibility beyond breaking point to contend that this is all some big plot to pen us up, and deprive us of our usual liberties. IMO the strongest argument against that possibility is the near-unanimity of world leaders, because it is effectively impossible to get sustained agreement on anything between world leaders, someone always breaks rank to take advantage, so they couldn’t sustain a global conspiracy even if their lives depended upon it;

 

- given all that, there is a mass of space for debate and nuance about what precautions should and shouldn’t continue to apply, which is difficult stuff given the counter-currents of a good vaccination programme, and an aggressive variant of the bug in circulation, but implying that we all need to rush to the barricades to defend our liberty against ‘somebody’ who is intent upon stealing it is bordering on infantile.

 

 

[alastairq]

A recent discussion with new SIL....[who 'volunteered' at the local hospital. A small affair compared to Barts]......who has been informed that local surgeries are looking at top-ups being jabbed along with flu jabs? [For those who qualify or flu jab call- ups]....to be conducted as early as September, if not August?

Also, each top-up will be a different make of jab to the one  received initially .

I received the Oxford jabs , so expect the pfizer one.

Not that I'[ve noticed anything untoward with the Oxford jabs?  Aside from a noted  tendency to start lurching all over the place, sometimes making unintelligible noises?

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by alastairq
formatting went mad once again

[Dunsignalling]

Why would HMG even want to delay this any longer than is really necessary?

 

While we are restricted and even more when we were in lockdown (for those who hadn't noticed, that was a while ago now) tax revenues are a fraction of normal, and they won't want to put off a recovery in those.

 

Understandably, those addicted to cheap, boozy, beach holidays in the sunshine (and those whose livings depend on providing them) are unhappy, but even if our government stops raining on their parades, those in many destination countries are queueing up to take over.  

 

The rest of us, in the main, have been working within the restrictions as best we can. It's not perfect, but there have been relatively few things that I'm really missing so long as they don't drag on into next summer, which I fear may be the result of demanding too much "freedom" too soon.

 

Whatever Boris and Co may trumpet full unlocking, it isn't wholly in their control and cannot be "irreversible" under every circumstance that could arise, unless they are prepared to just "let things rip" and pick up the pieces afterwards. If they are, I think we should be told.

 

John

[Nearholmer]

8 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

unless they are prepared to just "let things rip" and pick up the pieces afterwards. If they are, I think we should be told.

BJ has made clear, or as clear as he ever makes anything, that he isn’t - he always adds a ‘vaccine-beating variant’ caveat, in a quiet, slightly muffled voice at the end.

[beast66606]

52 minutes ago, alastairq said:

The naysayers, the anti vaxxers, the covid deniers, those who think their freedoms have been denied.....?

 

 

You're seriously saying that a lockdown is NOT a freedom denied ? I think "freedom" must be defined differently for some.