Abandoned rails in the road.....(or elsewhere...)

[Rivercider]

On 18/12/2022 at 19:57, Northmoor said:

Fascinating selection of pictures there @Captain Kernow; my Dad visited Sharpness only a few years ago and I think it's still largely unchanged.  I last saw it in 1985 and I remember the only rail vehicle being an abandoned 16t mineral wagon, somewhere near where your first image was taken. 

 

It does look like relatively little would be required to restart operations around the docks if required, but I can't imagine what traffic might justify that, sadly.  Sharpness is a fascinating place for anyone interested in industrial history/archaeology and not being on the way to anywhere, has been largely forgotten.

From my TOPS on BR career I don't remember much traffic to or from the Sharpness branch other than the nuclear flask traffic. Two types of traffic I do remember, from 1978 or 1979 there was a one-off imported wood pulp that came in tube wagons (TOPS type STV) from Sharpness to St Phillips Marsh for St Anne's Board Mills (imports via Portishead had finished by then). Also around 1980 or 1981 there was a one-off move of low level nuclear waste from Hinckley Point to Sharpness, loaded to rail at Bridgwater in pipe wagons (TOPS type SOV). 

The other regular traffic from the early 1980s was condemned unfitted and vacuum braked freight stock to Sharpness for Coopers Metals.

 

cheers 

[Michael Crofts]

Geof Pinfold has generously allowed me to share his photos of Snowdown Colliery in Kent.

The recent photos are dated 26th December 2022 and show the remaining siding disused since 1989. Approx 300m still in place.

His photo from 1982 helps understand the location -  The first set of points and the siding to the left, are still in place.

Please respect Geof's copyright of these images.

To avoid consuming RMweb's storage too much (and to avoid loss of the images if there's another disaster with the rmweb server) I've put them here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/119194913@N05/albums/72177720304915447

 

 

 

 

[33C]

6 minutes ago, Michael Crofts said:

Geof Pinfold has generously allowed me to share his photos of Snowdown Colliery in Kent.

The recent photos are dated 26th December 2022 and show the remaining siding disused since 1989. Approx 300m still in place.

His photo from 1982 helps understand the location -  The first set of points and the siding to the left, are still in place.

Please respect Geof's copyright of these images.

To avoid consuming RMweb's storage too much (and to avoid loss of the images if there's another disaster with the rmweb server) I've put them here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/119194913@N05/albums/72177720304915447

 

 

 

 

 

Nice bit o' bullhead there!

[009 micro modeller]

2 hours ago, Michael Crofts said:

Geof Pinfold has generously allowed me to share his photos of Snowdown Colliery in Kent.

The recent photos are dated 26th December 2022 and show the remaining siding disused since 1989. Approx 300m still in place.

His photo from 1982 helps understand the location -  The first set of points and the siding to the left, are still in place.

Please respect Geof's copyright of these images.

To avoid consuming RMweb's storage too much (and to avoid loss of the images if there's another disaster with the rmweb server) I've put them here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/119194913@N05/albums/72177720304915447

 

 

 

 

 

Very nice. Is any of the track shown in the 2022 photos also visible in the first (old) photo?

[009 micro modeller]

I made a repeat visit to Berkhamsted Gasworks Tramway today. The aim was to explore more of the route than was previously possible when I visited in summer 2020, when it was too overgrown. This is not a problem in winter although, on the other hand, there is more leaf litter at this time of year. I will try and restore my previous photos of Berkhamsted in my earlier post at some stage, but these ones are probably a bit more exciting anyway.

 

This time I did photograph the approach to the WCML tunnel (rails are still there under the leaves, I just didn’t stay at this point very long as I’d seen it on my previous visit and it seems to be a bit of a magnet for rubbish dumping - on this occasion there was even a rusty moped near the tunnel entrance). The bush on the right spoils the view slightly.

 

After the curve from the tunnel, the extant part of the track straightens out for a run parallel to the WCML, with the canal on the other side. The second photo shows a section where the side of the ditch/cess between the tramway and canal seems to have collapsed away. I’m not sure why it has done this at this specific point and apparently nowhere else - I don’t think the track was originally closer to the cess here than it was elsewhere as the alignment seems to be pretty straight. However, it does show the rail fixings and underpinnings for the track, which aren’t really visible elsewhere.

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by 009 micro modeller

[009 micro modeller]

Berkhamsted continued:

 

Third photo taken from the same position as the second but looking over the cess towards the canal. My back was to the WCML when taking this photo. I may need to return and take some photos and measurements of the rails from in the ditch itself, assuming it’s safe to do so.

 

 

The fourth photo is interesting as it seems to show the way the area around the track was infilled when constructed (remember this was a horse-worked line). At left you can clearly see the concrete on the outside of the rail, and you can just make out the other rail on the right, near the green leaves (concrete is probably present on that side as well, just not visible - I had to kick the leaves off to reveal the rail on the right). The area between the rails would probably have been filled in with looser material at a slightly lower level, rather than concrete with check rails as on a more heavily engineered “proper” tramway (Berkhamsted doesn’t seem to have check rails at all).

 

[009 micro modeller]

I have more photos from today but they’re pretty similar to the ones already posted above. There wasn’t really a particularly good opportunity for an overall shot looking along the track as some of it is obscured by overhanging tree branches, although I might go back and have another go at some stage, possibly starting from the other end of the line.

 

I managed to walk all the way along the track from the tunnel (where the red pin is) to the car park for the industrial estate on the site of the gasworks itself (on the left, where the blue scribble is). I can confirm there is still track in place on this whole section (I didn’t clear away all the leaves but I think we can assume it’s continuous, with the possible exception of a couple of modern-looking drain covers which might have required a tiny bit of rail to be removed). Measuring on Google Earth this is about 150 yards, but I might have a go at walking it with my GPS watch at some stage to see if that agrees. The length of the entire original line is often given as about 400 yards, which perhaps seems a little long as there’s only the last bit into the gasworks, plus the short section through the tunnel to the coal tips down from the standard gauge siding, to add on to the bit that is currently accessible.

 

 

The industrial estate car park is clearly at a slightly higher level than the remaining track (I should probably go back and get a photo demonstrating this) so the stretch into the gasworks is either buried under this or more likely removed (there are photos elsewhere online purporting to show this bit being lifted). The other end of the line is perhaps more intriguing, although as discussed previously it’s now in, or at least next to, the back gardens of new houses.

[tractionman]

Interesting field work there @009 micro modeller have you looked at the historic 25" scale OS maps available online via NLS, eg https://maps.nls.uk/view/104201101 for 1938, shows the tramway route and 'subway' under WCML.

 

cheers,

 

Keith

[SHMD]

There was an informative discussion, previously on RMWeb, regarding that little system.

(Can't remember anything else though!)

 

 

Kev.

[009 micro modeller]

14 hours ago, SHMD said:

There was an informative discussion, previously on RMWeb, regarding that little system.

(Can't remember anything else though!)

 

 

Kev.

We’ve discussed it previously on this thread, when I last visited it: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/163553-abandoned-rails-in-the-roador-elsewhere/page/8/#comment-4399014

 

 

Is there anything elsewhere on RMWeb?

 

There’s also this article, among others: https://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/24/Berkhamstead.htm

 

Annoyingly I once again forgot to take a tape measure today. On my previous visit I sort of measured the gauge using a stick, which I then took home and measured later. I got a gauge of 18 1/2 inches, which is what I was expecting and what most sources agree on, however the Bradford Barton Industrial Narrow Gauge Railways in Britain book (which actually first alerted me to the line’s existence) gives the gauge as 16 1/2 inches - I’m pretty sure this is wrong, and pretty much all the other sources think so too, but it would be good to get a definitive measurement, especially now I have access to straight track, which should be more accurate. I also wonder whether it could really be 18 inches, with the quoted odd half inch actually being a result of wear or tolerances. I can imagine Casserley, living locally, might have measured the gauge for himself, and he also states 18 1/2 (not 16 1/2). It may even be a typo in the Bradford Barton book, maybe I’m overthinking this.

 

14 hours ago, tractionman said:

Interesting field work there @009 micro modeller have you looked at the historic 25" scale OS maps available online via NLS, eg https://maps.nls.uk/view/104201101 for 1938, shows the tramway route and 'subway' under WCML.

 

cheers,

 

Keith

I have looked at the old maps before, but it’s good to have a new source for these now that the old-maps.co.uk website has gone. If you compare with the modern aerial view, and pay attention to the position of the canal lock gates, you’ll also note that the first of the points for the more complex track layout at the gasworks is quite far beyond the end of the remaining section I walked, which sadly doesn’t have any points on it. Although located close to the canal I think the railway, plus tramway for the last few hundred yards, was always the primary supply route for the gasworks (this replaced an earlier gasworks on a different site elsewhere in Berkhamsted).

Edited January 3, 2023 by 009 micro modeller

[Michael Crofts]

18 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Very nice. Is any of the track shown in the 2022 photos also visible in the first (old) photo?

Yes, the first set of points and the siding to the left. I'm trying to place this on an NLS side-by-side map but the only one I can find is from the 6" series and isn't sufficiently detailed to be sure.

[Michael Crofts]

Another generous offer to share photos - this time from Mark A. Cleave who visited the remains of the Lever Brothers railway system serving Port Sunlight & Bromborough Port on the Mersey in 2021. I have selected those photos which show relics of the permanent way and put them in a Flickr album. I've asked Mark to look at the captions and perhaps help amplify them. There was quite a lot to see in 2021 - how much is still there?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/119194913@N05/albums/72177720304949434 

 

 

[bradfordbuffer]

3 hours ago, Michael Crofts said:

Another generous offer to share photos - this time from Mark A. Cleave who visited the remains of the Lever Brothers railway system serving Port Sunlight & Bromborough Port on the Mersey in 2021. I have selected those photos which show relics of the permanent way and put them in a Flickr album. I've asked Mark to look at the captions and perhaps help amplify them. There was quite a lot to see in 2021 - how much is still there?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/119194913@N05/albums/72177720304949434 

 

 

In 80s as I remember there was a open weekend at sight I remember visiting and some where still gave commemorative ticket tours over system with a couple of  blue grey mk1s and top and tail with a jinty and a gwr 2 6 2....seems like yesterday but 27 plus years ago!

[bradfordbuffer]

26 minutes ago, bradfordbuffer said:

In 80s as I remember there was a open weekend at sight I remember visiting and some where still gave commemorative ticket tours over system with a couple of  blue grey mk1s and top and tail with a jinty and a gwr 2 6 2....seems like yesterday but 27 plus years ago!

Just done quick web search may 1988 ! Some interesting photos on line

[Beechnut]

Not much left of the 2ft gauge (?) system that one served the Midland Joinery works. The picture was taken in 2020 but it’s the same today.

 

Brendan

 

 

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Beechnut said:

Not much left of the 2ft gauge (?) system that one served the Midland Joinery works. The picture was taken in 2020 but it’s the same today.

 

Brendan

 

 

Whereabouts is this?

[Beechnut]

Burton on Trent, behind National Tyre Service, town end of St Peter’s bridge. Forgot that didn’t I.

[Michael Crofts]

1 hour ago, Beechnut said:

Burton on Trent, behind National Tyre Service, town end of St Peter’s bridge. Forgot that didn’t I.

Here?

 

[41516]

2 hours ago, Beechnut said:

2ft gauge (?) system that one served the Midland Joinery works

 

Yes, reported as 2ft and all hand worked, before anyone asks!

 

5 minutes ago, Michael Crofts said:

Here?

Yes.

[melmerby]

Part of the Workington dock & steelworks lines connecting the network north & south of the Derwent.

This is Curwen Road. It was in occasional use before the great flood of 2009 which washed away the bridges and they weren't replaced:

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by melmerby

[Halvarras]

3 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Part of the Workington dock & steelworks lines connecting the network north & south of the Derwent.

This is Curwen Road. It was in occasional use before the great flood of 2009 which washed away the bridges and they weren't replaced:

 

 

If those dotted white lines were where road traffic was supposed to stop to 'give way' to rail traffic, the car drivers would have got a really close-up view of the trains - especially those on this side......😬!!

[Michael Crofts]

8 hours ago, melmerby said:

Part of the Workington dock & steelworks lines connecting the network north & south of the Derwent.

This is Curwen Road. It was in occasional use before the great flood of 2009 which washed away the bridges and they weren't replaced:

 

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15.8&lat=54.64842&lon=-3.56951&layers=170&right=ESRIWorld   

Edited January 4, 2023 by Michael Crofts

[melmerby]

10 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

If those dotted white lines were where road traffic was supposed to stop to 'give way' to rail traffic, the car drivers would have got a really close-up view of the trains - especially those on this side......😬!!

There is also a flashing crossing sign but it faced the trains! (It's was still there in the undergrowth when that Google car passed.)

 

I saw trains using that crossing, when living in Cumbria.

[Beechnut]

Another from Burton. This time it’s the former Burton Power Station at the end of the appropriately named Electric Street. On the left is what what the turbine hall with offices to the right. These days it’s a builders merchant and has been for some years.

The line would have carried on to a headshunt then reversing loaded wagons to the boiler house which was between the turbine hall and the river.

The PS closed circa 1974.

 

[melmerby]

Some more from Workington.

Some of these were still in use in the mid 2000s

Lakes Road:

 

Princess Way:

 

 

 

TSP Works:

 

View of the Derwent and the various works.

Before the flood with rail bridge (2003):

 

After:

 

Curwen Road is the one running past the Sailing Club.

By 2006 the steel works had shrunk to almost nothing, so reinstating the bridge after the 2006 flood was pointless.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by melmerby