Engine-Tender DCC Connections

[robmcg]

I'm sure this issue has been discussed elsewhere, but it still annoys me the the 4-pin connectors on many (most?) new Hornby tender engines is a serious disincentive to purchase.

 

Given that the details on such as a 'Britannia' barely survive gentle and careful handing in a cradle, a buyer is faced with having a good model for static display, or a compromised possibly damaged model for running. It is no longer practical turn these locos upside down without surgical precision.

 

It would help if the electrical connection to the tender had a vertically-oriented male plug on a lead from harness in tender, thus allowing different connection widths, and a socket under the fall plate.

 

I defy anyone to install or remove the existing Hornby DCC plug without stress or difficulty. Locos cannot be easily returned to boxes as purchased. Thus they stay in or out

 

Unless a second hand item is known to be undamaged, I wouldn't touch one. The annoying thing is that the current plug is simply cheap poor design, and could be far better with nothing more than a redesign of wiring even retaining thin wires and existing plug type, with a recess on sides of female port to allow screwdiver prising.. In other respects, the detail included in recent models is astonishingly good, and of course, fragile.

 

Might I also suggest permanently-coupled engine-tender arrangements as a better solution?

 

Rob

[the fuzzler]

How dare you mention this poor connection on here ! I've been bemoaning it on MREMag, joining in with others who have put their head over the parapet, but it seems that (on there at any rate) you can't criticise this poor arrangemnet for fear of upsetting some folk.

 

Good on you Robbie - it is a very poor arrangement, which Bachmann have also inflicted on the otherwise superb City of Truro. You can't store stock once its been connected in the original packaging unless you do some surgery to it. Heaven knows what Hornby want you to do - connect it and leave it permanently coupled ? Its a fragile, flimsy and cheap arrangement. The plug is difficult to remove, and has to be forced out with a screwdriver. It won't withstand many cycles of insertion/removal.

 

I am told that the N gauge Ixion has two spring loaded connections between tender and loco. Now, if that is N, then it can be scaled up in OO to carry four connections.

[craigwelsh]

I am told that the N gauge Ixion has two spring loaded connections between tender and loco. Now, if that is N, then it can be scaled up in OO to carry four connections.

That connector though is causing quite a few returns so not a good idea at the moment.

 

I was surprised on the Hornby Castle that you have to pull on the cable to remove the plug from the socket again, you should be given a little extra plastic to pull it out with. A magnetic connector would be a good idea or indeed modifying the box for a coupled loco..

[Butler Henderson]

Found on the T9 it is possible to cut away the packaging to allow the tender to rest further forward and hence remain permanently coupled to the loco.

[the fuzzler]

Found on the T9 it is possible to cut away the packaging to allow the tender to rest further forward and hence remain permanently coupled to the loco.

 

Same with my Brittania (I think, or the Clan...can't remember). But you shouldn't have to ! Its indicative of Hornbys thinking that they seem to expect you to keep stock out on a layout at all times, or unplug the thing every time you want to put it back in the box. Why not tool the box up for a permanently coupled loco, and put in a removable polystyrene spacer for the intial delivery/storage when the engine and tender aren't coupled.

 

And its really fiddly to hold the engine/tender together to get them in the packaging. Given the extra detail and its fragility, things are going to get broken. And if you do want to uncouple the connection (as Robbie says) you've got to manhandle it more and get it to rest upside down. Good job I invested in a foam loco cradle......

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Interesting to see how different reactions to this system are. I have only seen Hornby's four pin system on a Castle, and am very pleased with it. Easily inserted and removed with a pair of tweezers or narrow nosed pliers; and enables a decoder to go in the tender where there is ample space, and no need to remove the loco body. (Irony time, this loco body is very easy to remove and replace, not the wrestling match experienced with Hornby's Gresley and Britannia pacific models.) The top half of Hornby's split packaging supports the loco inverted for connection/disconnection; this can be made easier by some light modification with a Stanley knife to enable the tender to sit closer to the loco.

 

However, Hornby could further refine the arrangements. I believe a better system is to have the socket on the loco, so that a blanking plug may be inserted to allow the loco to run as a stand alone piece. There is sufficient space in a tender for a flying lead with the plug on it to store away out of sight for those who don't want the two units connected by a lead. And finally some small modification to the packaging method so that storage of loco and tender with the two connected is made simple. The improvements we have got seem to be reactions to customer input, I would hope that further input could get to an arrangement that would suit everyone.

[RFS]

The coupler isn't perfect by any means, especially if you want to repeatedly remove the engine from the layout and put back in its box. But I take the view that the advantages outweigh this - decoder in tender, tender + loco pickup, and empty space in loco can be used for weight instead of the decoder. And fitting a decoder in the tender is a lot easier than taking the loco body off. I strongly suspect the T9 would not be do-able if you had to have the decoder in the loco - there just wouldn't be room for that plus sufficicent weight. Don't want to go back to tender-driven locos.

 

Incidentally I had a problem with my Schools loco yesterday: it was trundling round at speed with 11 coaches in tow when I noticed that the gap between loco and tender was large enough for the crew to fall through. It turned out that the coupling bar had become unhooked and the whole 11 coaches were being pulled round by the 4-pin connector wire acting as the coupling, so it's stronger than you think!

[Gilwell Park]

I tried to put a couple of locos in their boxes last night. The M7 will not fit unless you remove the rear coupling, the B of B will not fit unless the brake gear is removed, if you try too hard it falls off anyway! The KA tender will not fit with the brake rodding in place. Boxes should be designed to accommodate the complete, working, model.

 

Roger.

[Guest Max Stafford]

To be honest, all I've done is to acquire new fold-up loco boxes. When I'm not using my locos, I surround them in bubble wrap and place them in the box. It's a lot less fuss than using the Hornby packaging. Personally I like the general concept of the Hornby power arrangement, it's just the excecution that's a little wanting. The box is a bit of a pain though, even with more conventionally arranged locos. Most continental steam locos have the decoder socket in the tender and it's generally a lot easier to get a tender body off than a detailed loco body.

 

Dave.

[34040]

Incidentally I had a problem with my Schools loco yesterday: it was trundling round at speed with 11 coaches in tow when I noticed that the gap between loco and tender was large enough for the crew to fall through. It turned out that the coupling bar had become unhooked and the whole 11 coaches were being pulled round by the 4-pin connector wire acting as the coupling, so it's stronger than you think!

 

I had the same problem once and it seems daft to me that Hornby have this delicate plug arrangement but still only use a simple "hook & eye" coupling. To avoid the risk of the loco and tender coming adrift and putting all the stress onto the wires, I have press-fitted a short length of insulation over the hook to stop the two vehicles separating. If I need to part them, I can slide the insulation off, or cut it.

 

Dave

[Charlie]

So long as they don't go back to the horrendous plug in system that aflicted the tender driven models. My mallard's never run correctly.

 

Have to say, if Hornby think they should be semi-permanently coupled then why not reflect this in the packaging? Instead of Polystyrene have a clear plastic package that can be opened and the sides and top to allow the model to be lifted in and out.

[autocoach]

A short length of black shrink wrap tubing makes an excellent retainer to keep the coupling bar from slipping off. I have used this method on Schools and T9's.

[brushman47544]

I've commented about Hornby's (and Bachmann's for that matter) loco boxes in the past. Since when is it necessary to encase a loco tighly all the way round to hold it in place for transit. As long as the loco is held in place in a number of key locations, including to keep moving parts such as wheels in place, that is sufficient. If they adopted that approach - more akin to Roco boxes - it would be much easier to adapt them when loco and tender are coupled.

[JZ]

I don't have a problem with it. I have used this type of connector for many years when I was in the electronics industry. It is easily removed or inserted with a small pair of pliers and surely most of us modellers have a pair of these in our toolboxes. I would have fitted these to my Bachmann 2251 when I decoder fitted the tender, unfortunately I could only buy them in bulk, ie 250 pairs. Many US H0 steam loco's use this system, I have an USRA 2-6-6-2 which has a 2-pin and a 4-pin.

As for the point about cutting packaging or not. Once the brake rigging is fitted, I have found the packaging needs cutting anyway.

[Stuartthegrant]

On the subject of engine/tender plugs, can anybody point me in the direction of a replacement? One broken wire on a Schools class.

[Market65]

Hi, Stuartthegrant. I would think that Peters Spares would have what you are needing here. Web address is: www.petersspares.com - tel: 01642-909794. Do not forget code 44 and leave out the first 0 if calling from outside the UK. I hope that you can get hold of what are needing, and wish you good luck.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[RFS]

Here's another supplier on Ebay I've dealt with who has the items you need - http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_odkw=&item=140992332315&pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&_osacat=0&hash=item20d3cc421b&_ssn=tracksidecars&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xtender+wires&_nkw=tender+wires&_sacat=0&_from=R40

[Retro_man]

The part you need is X6113.

 

I got mine from East Kent Models - £2.00 plus postage.

 

ekm@hotmail.com

 

Steve

Canada

[Mike70]

I've also resorted to putting my loco's in fold up boxes.

Like Dave in reply 10.

 

I bought a batch of 363 x 102 x 62mm boxes from Post Pack.

 

They are too big for one loco on it's own, so I tend to put two in together with cardboard partitions to stop them banging against each other.

As long as you keep the box flat, it seems to work quite well and it's a lot easier than taking them out of the original box.

 

The photo attached is a bit grainy, but it gives you the general idea;

 

I bought the Hornby X6468 Extractor Tool earlier this week.  It's OK, but I feel more comfortable using a small screw driver to gradually prize it out by levering both sides of the plug.

 

[Stuartthegrant]

A while back now, but thanks to Retro_man and Market65 also RFS for the links. I have obtained the X6113 "plug and Leads" .

 However when putting a decoder in the tender of another Hornby Schools( that runs well on DC) the engine just started to run at a fixed speed. Also it

Would not respond at all to the Power Cab. Any thoughts guys? The decoder a "ZEN" was fitted correctly. Help.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Put the loco on programme track and perform a reset would be my first thought.  

 

Once it shows address 03 and has then accepted the address you want to programme, then see how it performs on DCC power. If it again goes off at fixed speed then maybe it doesn't work well with the suppressors on the loco ( try on a different make of chassis if you have one handy, ideally one with no suppression) and try a different decoder on the Schools model. If the zen decoder has runaways on other chassis despite resets, possibly faulty as supplied.

[brossard]

A problem that I found which led to a broken wire in Black 5 connector is that there is no way to keep the loco and tender coupled.  Mine would uncouple with handling putting strain on the wires.  I fixed it with a slice of brass tube secured with cyano to the coupling pin.

 

 

Fortunately I was able to push the broken wire back in.  I also gave things further strain relief by putting on a dollop of contact cement.

 

John

[Rob Hayes]

I hope Hornby discontinue this style. It's damn awful and not a good design. The old hook on method made sense, the compromise on reliability should not me made in favour of sound, the compromise should be on sound limitations.

 

All the A4s I have I had modded to the old style. There is ample room in the loco to fit a decoder and speaker.

 

I know this is not true for all locos and you can use sugarcube speakers which often give the best and biggest sound anyway.

 

I think perhaps Hornby should look at using sugar cube speakers in their sound locos. They are incredible and at the same time revert to the older well proven method where possible.

 

[GraemeWatson]

I did indeed used to despise "The Devil's Plug" however the presence of tender pickups is a great plus. I note that Hornby are supplying their sound A4/P2/Tornados pre-plugged and permanently coupled.

One good method for plugging/unplugging is simply to lie the loco on it's side on a piece of foam to protect it, and use a set of plastic toothed forceps to aid the cause.

The metal tool designed for the task available separately from Hornby is too unwieldy, and metal forceps run the risk of damage.

I do also recommend using a small amount of a Teflon lubricant grease applied to plug to allow for easier removal.

[Ian Hargrave]

Tender pickups have been the norm on mainstream Hornby range models well before the introduction of Satan's plug in the form of the substantial metal 'bayonet' connected by lowering it into the jaws of te tender connection. The reason for using the nasty plug was to make it easier for DCC use.We have now moved on to the much easier semi-pemanently connected out-of-the box system,for DC at any rate..Bachmann are now also using the same method.