Interesting and inspiring photos from Flickr....

[Nearholmer]

It’s always difficult to be sure from OS, because a lot depended on the surveyor and cartographer. There are some maps in the 1:1056 London series where the p.way is drawn so exactly that I’ve wondered if the staff doing it were ex-railway, and others that look as if they were drawn after a long pub lunch.

[montyburns56]

Kings Cross 1969

 

 

[Michael Edge]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

It’s always difficult to be sure from OS, because a lot depended on the surveyor and cartographer. There are some maps in the 1:1056 London series where the p.way is drawn so exactly that I’ve wondered if the staff doing it were ex-railway, and others that look as if they were drawn after a long pub lunch.

Most of the OS plans don't distinguish between double/single slips and diamonds.

[montyburns56]

Westbury 1983 by Jamerail

 

 

[russ p]

14 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

Westbury 1983 by Jamerail

 

 

 

Interesting that only one has a TOPS code

[62613]

16 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

Westbury 1983 by Jamerail

 

 

Four vans, all different!

[Steadfast]

16 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

Westbury 1983 by Jamerail

 

 

Bovis Wharf siding?

 

Jo

[Stoke West]

8 minutes ago, Steadfast said:

Bovis Wharf siding?

 

Jo

That dock is where the gwr traincrew Depot is now

[Steadfast]

19 minutes ago, Stoke West said:

That dock is where the gwr traincrew Depot is now

Ah gotcha. Never knew that siding was there. Before I was even born let alone working at Westbury! Presumably the siding was to serve the pway depot that's still there, looking at some wider shots on Flickr of early 1980s Westbury. 

 

Jo

[ba14eagle]

Bovis Wharf is on the Upside, opposite this location

[Kylestrome]

17 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

Westbury 1983 by Jamerail

 

 

This should be compulsory viewing for all those who worry about getting the exact correct shade of bauxite paint.

 

 

Together with this one:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Kylestrome

[cctransuk]

15 minutes ago, Kylestrome said:

This should be compulsory viewing for all those who worry about getting the exact correct shade of bauxite paint.

 

 

Together with this one:

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's called weathering - all of these would have been painted in much the same shade of red bauxite - as per the BR spec., - when first released to traffic.

 

In my experience, finishing models in a selection of shades of red / orange / brown / mud does not produce the same, authentic appearance as finishing in the correct colour; subsequently weathered to a variety of extent.

 

John Isherwood.

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, ba14eagle said:

Bovis Wharf is on the Upside, opposite this location

Ah, Farr's Siding and loading bank.  Funny how the names change over the years.   Farr's were a big rail customer back in the 1970s regul;arly receiving wagonloads of agricultural machines from Germany in ferry wagons.

 

The first photo above (and copied below) really shows a lot of long changed Westbury.  I suspect that the wagons were probably being used to store material for resignalling work which would have been getting underway by then.  The line nearest the camera - with Wx Nth No.63 ground disc just in shot - was the Down Goods Avoider and the next line away from it - before the dock siding - had at one time been where grain wagons were dealt with - still an occasional traffic in the 1970s and there was a small grain silo next to it; it originally extended back under the bridge alongside the Patney Refuge (siding).  The Dock Siding - where the wagons are standing - had at one time been much longer and seems to have originally been used as a carriage siding.  Quite when it became a dock siding I don't know but as what became Farr's Siding - over on the Up side, at one time served the iron works it might well have been created to provide some sort of dock capacity?

 

[montyburns56]

I wonder where the crew are?

 

Birkenhead Docks 1982 by Martyn Hilbert

 

 

[Stoke West]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Ah, Farr's Siding and loading bank.  Funny how the names change over the years.   Farr's were a big rail customer back in the 1970s regul;arly receiving wagonloads of agricultural machines from Germany in ferry wagons.

 

The first photo above (and copied below) really shows a lot of long changed Westbury.  I suspect that the wagons were probably being used to store material for resignalling work which would have been getting underway by then.  The line nearest the camera - with Wx Nth No.63 ground disc just in shot - was the Down Goods Avoider and the next line away from it - before the dock siding - had at one time been where grain wagons were dealt with - still an occasional traffic in the 1970s and there was a small grain silo next to it; it originally extended back under the bridge alongside the Patney Refuge (siding).  The Dock Siding - where the wagons are standing - had at one time been much longer and seems to have originally been used as a carriage siding.  Quite when it became a dock siding I don't know but as what became Farr's Siding - over on the Up side, at one time served the iron works it might well have been created to provide some sort of dock capacity?

 

This dock was for the traffic department , the carriage sidings were separate and ran under the disused bridge of which the parapet remains on the station side . The engineers Dept had various buildings either side of the road alongside the carriage sidings . The S&T Dept was based in the downside yard at Frome

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, Stoke West said:

This dock was for the traffic department , the carriage sidings were separate and ran under the disused bridge of which the parapet remains on the station side . The engineers Dept had various buildings either side of the road alongside the carriage sidings . The S&T Dept was based in the downside yard at Frome

Er. well.  there is an online photo which very clearly shows a curved carriage siding roughly on the alignment of the dock siding and following the curve of the station approach.  It isn't show on the 1914 OS map but the photo suggests that it might well have been there by then judging by the vehicles in the siding.- early years of the 20th century so it seems fairly certain that is what it was there for.

 

The other siding, parallel at that point with the Down Goods was quite short stopped short of the bridge and was presumably extended when the bridge was rebuilt - the bridge of course is still there carting Station Road/the B3097 over the railway.   What the two sidings were used for has - as I explained - clearly changed over the years,  In the getting on for 5 years when I was at Westbury the siding which ran roughly parallel to the Patney Refuge had the grain silo and was not much for anything else - in fact it wasn't used for much at all as generally the Patney Refuge was the first choice as it was easier to shunt.  The Dock Siding very occasionally had a wagon stabled on it and it definitely wasn't used for traffic purposes, although probably originally intended for that, as any traffic (which was actually quite regular) requiring side loading/unloading was dealt with in Farr's Siding - almost all of it at that time being for them anyway.

 

The S&T depot was at Frome but there were techs based at Westbury however material coming in for resignalling work is something completely different and I doubt the PerWay had much need to store materials under cover especially in the sort of quantities those vans could accommodate.

[New Haven Neil]

22 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

It's called weathering - all of these would have been painted in much the same shade of red bauxite - as per the BR spec., - when first released to traffic.

 

In my experience, finishing models in a selection of shades of red / orange / brown / mud does not produce the same, authentic appearance as finishing in the correct colour; subsequently weathered to a variety of extent.

 

John Isherwood.

 

I remain unconvinced they all started the samecolour.

 

[Sitham Yard]

3 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

 

I remain unconvinced they all started the samecolour.

 

Agreed. Looking at various photos there seems to have been a time when, at least some wagons were (re)painted in a more orangery bauxite . 

Andrew 

[cctransuk]

4 minutes ago, Sitham Yard said:

Agreed. Looking at various photos there seems to have been a time when, at least some wagons were (re)painted in a more orangery bauxite . 

Andrew 

 

They all came out in orangey bauxite in the 1950s / 60s.

 

My nearest spotting location was on the Midland Mainline at Wigston Magna, near Leicester. Wigston had a BR-operated wagon repair shop in the former Midland Railway locoshed; and our view of passing locos was frequently - and frustratingly - blocked by a Fowler 3F 0-6-0 shunting incoming and outgoing wagon rakes.

 

I can assure you that any paint that was applied - either to odd replaced planks or to wholly repainted wagons - was either a shade of grey / green / blue, (that was a remarkable match for Royal Navy ships); an orangey bauxite, as seen in the recently posted photo; or a shiny black. New or refurbished wagons really did catch the eye - though a few weeks in traffic rendered them all shades of muddy red / brown / black.

 

I know that it is difficult to accept the degree of weathering that occurred in those pre-smokeless zone days - but it certainly did!

 

John Isherwood.

[cctransuk]

33 minutes ago, Sitham Yard said:

Agreed. Looking at various photos there seems to have been a time when, at least some wagons were (re)painted in a more orangery bauxite . 

Andrew 

 

Look at the PALVAN nearer to the camera - and specifically the RH end where the wheelbase lettering has been added / repainted.

 

 

What colour is the repainted patch upon which the lettering has been painted? It looks to be orangey bauxite - with a couple of weeks weathering - to me!

 

John Isherwood.

[D7063]

41 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Look at the PALVAN nearer to the camera - and specifically the RH end where the wheelbase lettering has been added / repainted.

 

 

What colour is the repainted patch upon which the lettering has been painted? It looks to be orangey bauxite - with a couple of weeks weathering - to me!

 

John Isherwood.

Looks like the signalbox has received a coast too - on the woodwork!

[D7063]

A 'coat' - that should have been!

not a 'coast'🙄

[Stoke West]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Er. well.  there is an online photo which very clearly shows a curved carriage siding roughly on the alignment of the dock siding and following the curve of the station approach.  It isn't show on the 1914 OS map but the photo suggests that it might well have been there by then judging by the vehicles in the siding.- early years of the 20th century so it seems fairly certain that is what it was there for.

 

The other siding, parallel at that point with the Down Goods was quite short stopped short of the bridge and was presumably extended when the bridge was rebuilt - the bridge of course is still there carting Station Road/the B3097 over the railway.   What the two sidings were used for has - as I explained - clearly changed over the years,  In the getting on for 5 years when I was at Westbury the siding which ran roughly parallel to the Patney Refuge had the grain silo and was not much for anything else - in fact it wasn't used for much at all as generally the Patney Refuge was the first choice as it was easier to shunt.  The Dock Siding very occasionally had a wagon stabled on it and it definitely wasn't used for traffic purposes, although probably originally intended for that, as any traffic (which was actually quite regular) requiring side loading/unloading was dealt with in Farr's Siding - almost all of it at that time being for them anyway.

 

The S&T depot was at Frome but there were techs based at Westbury however material coming in for resignalling work is something completely different and I doubt the PerWay had much need to store materials under cover especially in the sort of quantities those vans could accommodate.

There were alterations after the 1899 rebuild of the station  the down and up goods running loops coming later on . The siding alongside the down goods extended under and beyond the bridge and moved away from the Patney and ended at about the middle of the panel box standing about ten grain wagons the Patney side of the bridge , presumably  classed as a private for Nitrovit . It always had the appearance of having been a tip siding probably loco ash . Parallel to the dock siding was a siding which split into two , the carriage Sidings , and passed under a stone built bridge of Wilts and Somerset design now filled in but the parapet on the station side is still there , and onto an embankment to the rear of the panel box . The dock must have been put in as a passenger dock ie Horse &  Carriage , separate from the goods yard . 

[50A55B]

The other thing to note about the Palvan is the colour of the springs. I’ve seen a few black and white photos of these vans which indicated a pale colour, this suggests something similar to a green primer shade as sometimes seen on replacement buffers. These vans were the ones with riding problems, I wonder if the unusual spring colouring is connected with investigations into the issues?

[Porcy Mane]

2 hours ago, 50A55B said:

I wonder if the unusual spring colouring is connected with investigations into the issues?

 

Yep. Yellow painted springs. Indicated fitment of balanced springs and allowed to travel in class C & D trains. There were route restrictions though.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Porcy Mane