Cavalex - all new Class 56 in OO

[Damo666]

1 hour ago, IOW O2 said:

Think I should have said the whole of the axle should have been in front of the handrail hinge frame.  Best pic I can find below.  it is subject to copyright.

 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=7w2kz9%2Fw&id=84F95A6E919EFBCD6F099CF5F7DC1FA22FF7E905&thid=OIP.7w2kz9_wEi-pyuQVtGJHVQHaEK&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F-TI7WxdDWug%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&exph=720&expw=1280&q=class+56+locomotive&simid=608042759849843710&form=IRPRST&ck=B53A1F10E64246FD35C22318991C8EFD&selectedindex=7&itb=0&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0&vt=0&sim=11&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.ef0da4cfdff0122fa9cae415b4624755%3Frik%3DBen3L6If3Pf1nA%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0

You are not looking straight on the side elevation with the picture in your link. As the photographer is forward of the front of the loco you've got some parallax going on. Elements not in the same plane will appear to be in different juxtapositions the further you move away from a perpendicular viewpoint.

[Trains4U]

For anyone awaiting a DCC fitted locomotive from us.

 

Cavalex did not offer factory fitted DCC.

 

We offered this to save our customers the trouble of sorting out their own decoders.

 

We are fitting ESU 10 function lokpilots and we are working on obtaining and programming a suitable decoder profile

 

We will ship these models as soon as this work is complete. (Which wont be much longer!)

 

for context, DCC fitted only accounts for about 7% of our pre-orders, which is why it would not have been cost effective to be offered as a factory option.

Edited January 31 by Trains4U

[Ajax50046]

Out of interest Gareth, what’s the ratio of sales of DCC Sound v DCC ready locos these days? 

[JN]

is an example of: not all 56s were filthy all the time. I do not if ex-works or what, but I think I will leave my Kellingley Colliery example in ex-works condition, certainly before I properly understand weathering and such. I am making baby steps back into the hobby and this is my first model in years which has the tenuous connection of:

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/the-knottingley-silver-band-leads-miners-union-members-and-news-photo/501980100

(I am the person wearing the blue coat).

[158722]

Out of curiosity, this is what a patch of Precision Paints executive dark grey looks like on a 56097 roof.

[RBE]

10 minutes ago, 158722 said:

Out of curiosity, this is what a patch of Precision Paints executive dark grey looks like on a 56097 roof.

But is it so stark when not under a bright overhead light? As shown before it looks darker here. 

Edited January 31 by RBE

[158722]

9 minutes ago, RBE said:

But is it so stark when not under a bright overhead light? As shown before it looks darker here. 

Full dull light, no artificial and blinds closed to shade from outside.

[RBE]

7 minutes ago, 158722 said:

Full dull light, no artificial and blinds closed to shade from outside.

In that photo the roof looks correct and the precision way too dark.

 

Interesting this lighting business. 

 

[LNERandBR]

1 minute ago, RBE said:

In that photo the roof looks correct and the precision way too dark.

 

Interesting this lighting business. 

 

 

You also need to factor in any auto correction the camera could be doing. I bet they look different to the naked eye.

[97406]

Conversely, I backdated the Accurascale 37419 in Mainline livery and had to darken Railmatch exec dark grey an amount to blend it in OK. The locos I've resprayed using it are a touch lighter than many RTR ones. In this case I suspect the real 419 may have had a darker shade in its retro respray.

[adb968008]

4 minutes ago, 97406 said:

Conversely, I backdated the Accurascale 37419 in Mainline livery and had to darken Railmatch exec dark grey an amount to blend it in OK. The locos I've resprayed using it are a touch lighter than many RTR ones. In this case I suspect the real 419 may have had a darker shade in its retro respray.

The real 37419 is definitely more glossy today than it was in the 1990’s, same too for 37425.

Edited January 31 by adb968008

[Rhysb]

12 minutes ago, 158722 said:

Full dull light, no artificial and blinds closed to shade from outside.

 

Good Morning,

 

Please note I will not comment directly on your photograph as the paint used/application of paint/brand of paint cannot be verified by myself. Also I do not want to comment on other manufacturers colours or paint manufacturers colours.

 

However below is a professionally painted model that has used precision paints executive grey held alongside and official British standards BS4800 colour swatch. The original BR colour specification in 1987 at the point of the launch of the sectorisation branding by roundel design was for the roof: BS 4800, 00 A 13 Greyfriar/Storm Grey:

 

This photo is clear that the paint on the model is too dark compared to the official British Standard Swatch.

 

Again I re-iterate my point from earlier in this thread. The Cavalex class 56 sector livery was matched from the 1987 brand guidelines document released officially by Roundel design and the official BR specification sheet. We can all point to photo's we see in service where it may look lighter, it may look darker, it may look spot on, its not been cleaned in ages, its just been cleaned or repainted etc etc but all Cavalex can do is match the colour with paint matching from one of the worlds largest paint companies against the original specifications.

 

Also please note that while RAL, NCS and other universal paint systems are indeed that Universal the BS colour system was never that. Even the British Rail depot's were not matching the colours correctly in the 80's to their own specification. It was much later in the sectorisation period that BR decided to move painting of locomotives from their own depots into professional paint shops.

 

(I have edited the photo to hide the manufacturer/type of model as this is repainted model and not their representation of the colour and I wish to talk only about Cavalex)

[ruggedpeak]

Was the paint mixed properly before applying or was it a dab of the thickest sludge in the pot? Was it fully dry before being photographed? Dark Grey paint has been painted onto a dark grey base colour etc etc.

 

Given the humungous rabbit hole that is paint colour, that the issue has been discussed in detail on RMW many times, that Cavalex have made clear they have spent a lot of time and effort properly colour matching, that any image of paint is an inaccurate reproduction, and that we've already had the "it didn't look like that in the 1980's, I know I saw it" approach to colour matching, that BR et al used various colours and mixes etc etc is there much benefit to paint discussion in the absence of an Oxford Scotrail Mk3 type howler?

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, 158722 said:

Full dull light, no artificial and blinds closed to shade from outside.

 

You would need to adjust your camera's white balance. I appreciate that you are looking at comparative shades but also light reflectance values of different paints/finishes would need to be considered.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Rhysb said:

 

Good Morning,

 

Please note I will not comment directly on your photograph as the paint used/application of paint/brand of paint cannot be verified by myself. Also I do not want to comment on other manufacturers colours or paint manufacturers colours.

 

However below is a professionally painted model that has used precision paints executive grey held alongside and official British standards BS4800 colour swatch. The original BR colour specification in 1987 at the point of the launch of the sectorisation branding by roundel design was for the roof: BS 4800, 00 A 13 Greyfriar/Storm Grey:

 

This photo is clear that the paint on the model is too dark compared to the official British Standard Swatch.

 

Again I re-iterate my point from earlier in this thread. The Cavalex class 56 sector livery was matched from the 1987 brand guidelines document released officially by Roundel design and the official BR specification sheet. We can all point to photo's we see in service where it may look lighter, it may look darker, it may look spot on, its not been cleaned in ages, its just been cleaned or repainted etc etc but all Cavalex can do is match the colour with paint matching from one of the worlds largest paint companies against the original specifications.

 

Also please note that while RAL, NCS and other universal paint systems are indeed that Universal the BS colour system was never that. Even the British Rail depot's were not matching the colours correctly in the 80's to their own specification. It was much later in the sectorisation period that BR decided to move painting of locomotives from their own depots into professional paint shops.

 

(I have edited the photo to hide the manufacturer/type of model as this is repainted model and not their representation of the colour and I wish to talk only about Cavalex)

The swatch too could have faded over time, making it falliable too.

 

too many variables.

 

At the end of the day beauty is in the eye of the beholder… if it looks right to you, then it is right to you.

 

 

Edited January 31 by adb968008

[lego legs]

As a designer I hate colour discussions. Especially when using a photograph, there's just too many variables. Also, colours can appear different depending on what colour they're placed next to. I have a £700 Pantone swatch book I have to use for colour matching and I still can't always get the exact match as materials, light, temperature, paint/ink coverage (and pretty much anything else you can think of) can impact on the colour. 

 

If Cavalex have matched it to the brand standards then I can't see the room for debate - they're the official colours, they've been checked and matched and given Cavalex have put a lot of detail into this, I'm sure they're correct.

[Keith Simons]

Hi Cavalex. Did you manage to speak to Rails about scale wheel sets please? I phoned them this morning and they are still saying they are waiting for them to be delivered. 🤔

Kind regards.
Keith down in not so sunny Devon. 

[Rhysb]

3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The swatch too could have faded over time, making it infalliable too.

 

too many variables.

 

At the end of the day beauty is in the eye of the beholder… if it looks right to you, then it is right to you.

 

 

Its a brand new paint swatch, photo taken in a paint factory. I agree on all sides that there is many variables. As stated all Cavalex can do is match to a specification.

[adb968008]

Meanwhile, ive just opened my £380 box…

 

 

 

[RBE]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Meanwhile, ive just opened my £380 box…

 

 

 

Has that taken a knock in transit and dislodged the roof panel. That's a big knock if it has as those very strong magnets. 

[big jim]

1 minute ago, RBE said:

Has that taken a knock in transit and dislodged the roof panel. That's a big knock if it has as those very strong magnets. 

yeah a knock like that has rendered both locos worthless, better send them to me to dispose of @adb968008 

[JN]

20 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The swatch too could have faded over time, making it infalliable too.

 

too many variables.

 

At the end of the day beauty is in the eye of the beholder… if it looks right to you, then it is right to you.

 

 

Fallible = capable of error.

Infallible = incapable of error.

 

Adding: Just wanted to let you know.

Edited January 31 by JN

[158722]

9 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The swatch too could have faded over time, making it infalliable too.

 

too many variables.

 

At the end of the day beauty is in the eye of the beholder… if it looks right to you, then it is right to you.

 

 

Your last line is spot on! Exactly my logic.

 

That grey is too light to my eye and there is no justification for it from white balance on cameras, lighting conditions, whether I stirred the paint pot, faded colour swathes, whether I applied the paint with a toothbrush or having the wrong type of light (Portuguese light being different to UK light, of course), all according to my eye.

 

As a happy customer, having got three of these excellent locos, it’s my eye which counts and nothing mentioned is going to change that view, with due respect to Cavalex and other posts. My perogative if I want to repaint the roofs/grills, which I will. Takes nothing away from the models, which are fab and the roof colour isn’t anywhere near being a disaster. For that, we have Dapol… ;-)

[adb968008]

That was a Heart stopping moment….

 

but they are fine…

 

The box has a minor crumple in the top corner, its taken a knock in transit somewhere, but not a scratch and nothing loose ! The bogies were off their tracks in that cradle too.. but they were solid in that crate, and screwed down tight…

 

just popped the roof section back on…

 

theyve passed that test !

 

 

ok its playtime…

 

Edited January 31 by adb968008

[adb968008]

Actually odd one…

Compared to the box picture, they are missing 1 right side lower lamp bracket, both models, at both ends, is that expected ?

 

 

 

Edited January 31 by adb968008