Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[Vistisen]

4 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Auto Express are carrying this story today....

 

"Tesla to open Supercharger network to other EV brands"

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/355605/tesla-open-supercharger-network-other-ev-brands

 

 

.

I suspect that they are doing it now before they are forced to do it by the EU. Just like roaming mobile phones agreements, it is obvious to everyone that this is the way to go. Just imagine if each petrol company had a unique nozzle so that you had to choose which petrol company you want to use when you buy your car! All the various Danish charging companies have agreed to open for roaming from the start of July. 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

I suspect that they are doing it now before they are forced to do it by the EU. Just like roaming mobile phones agreements, it is obvious to everyone that this is the way to go. Just imagine if each petrol company had a unique nozzle so that you had to choose which petrol company you want to use when you buy your car! All the various Danish charging companies have agreed to open for roaming from the start of July. 

 

When Tesla started their network there was no standard plug so they had to invent one.

They use CCS now but it's a bit like letting all the plebs into your golf club. If I had a Tesla a large part of the reason would be a charging network not cluttered by wombles charging PHEVs

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Not wanting to support the doubters and naysayers in anyway, but with the recent lack of wind over the last couple of weeks, I thought I'd have a look at the National Grid: Live Status website.

 

Looking at the averages....

Renewables have provided no more than 14% of demand over the last week and 15.9% over the last month.

Out of that, wind has only been giving us 3.8% over the last week and 8.2% over the last month.

Clearly there's a long long way to go.

 

.

 

 

They should link them up to some of the conversations within this forum…….that’ll keep us warm in Winter 

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Shell to install 800 EV chargers at Waitrose shops by 2025

Our local Waitrose has had a few chargers for several years now, unfortunately they are tucked around the back of the store actually away from the car park, and to get a shopping cart to the charger positions is a bit of a trek and challenge as the pathway sort of disappears half way there 

[boxbrownie]

26 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

When Tesla started their network there was no standard plug so they had to invent one.

They use CCS now but it's a bit like letting all the plebs into your golf club. 

Oi!  I represent that remark 

[Vistisen]

55 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

When Tesla started their network there was no standard plug so they had to invent one.

They use CCS now but it's a bit like letting all the plebs into your golf club. If I had a Tesla a large part of the reason would be a charging network not cluttered by wombles charging PHEVs

<GLOVES OFF> I tried a Tesla 3 before choosing my Volvo V60-T6 Recharge.

Points for the Tesla: Agreed the 'exclusive'  charging network is the major buying reason, the 4 second 0-60 mph  time, and.... that's about it.

Points against the tesla: Noise at motorway speeds,  silly Autopilot ( the volo's is much better), but mainly the terrible build quality. My kid's lunch box has better quality plastic. On the test car I drove, the left hand side was about 1 cm longer than the right hand side due to panel gaps. And I have never seen light that wash themselver from the inside before:- novel feature. Mind you though the one I had did at least have paint on most of the bodywork :-)  </GLOVES ON>

Seriously I wanted to like it , and drove one twice ( two different cars). But compared to the Volvo, it is not as an nice a place to be sittting for hours at a stretch. If I had been able to wait for it, a Polestar2 might have been the car for me. In three years it might well be en NEO7 if they make it to Europe They call NEO the Chinese TESLA, but I won't hold that against them 

[boxbrownie]

52 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

<GLOVES OFF> I tried a Tesla 3 before choosing my Volvo V60-T6 Recharge.

Points for the Tesla: Agreed the 'exclusive'  charging network is the major buying reason, the 4 second 0-60 mph  time, and.... that's about it.

Points against the tesla: Noise at motorway speeds,  silly Autopilot ( the volo's is much better), but mainly the terrible build quality. My kid's lunch box has better quality plastic. On the test car I drove, the left hand side was about 1 cm longer than the right hand side due to panel gaps. And I have never seen light that wash themselver from the inside before:- novel feature. Mind you though the one I had did at least have paint on most of the bodywork :-)  </GLOVES ON>

Seriously I wanted to like it , and drove one twice ( two different cars). But compared to the Volvo, it is not as an nice a place to be sittting for hours at a stretch. If I had been able to wait for it, a Polestar2 might have been the car for me. In three years it might well be en NEO7 if they make it to Europe They call NEO the Chinese TESLA, but I won't hold that against them 

They are very successful, but flawed as you say……and a lot of owners put up with quite serious faults (that other manufacturers wouldn’t get away with) because they are Tesla.

 

We test drive a couple when first launched and the went like stink but the NVH was appalling.

[PenrithBeacon]

5 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Shell to install 800 EV chargers at Waitrose shops by 2025

I do wonder just how useful these will be. Aren't they competing with home chargers?

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I do wonder just how useful these will be. Aren't they competing with home chargers?

 

Each site will get six 22kW AC posts and two 50kW rapids.

 

The AC units will be of more interest to PHEV drivers who can charge while they shop and maybe do the trip without burning petrol. They'll also be of interest to owners of older Zoes many of which only charge at a max 22kW.

 

The rapids are what EV drivers will want. Those users will be travelling somewhere and stopping for a top up. While they're doing that they might pop in and buy a sandwich.

 

I used to make use of an AC supermarket post when I had the 24kWh Leaf and an hour of 6.6kW is a useful top up when your errands go beyond your range on a charge.

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I do wonder just how useful these will be. Aren't they competing with home chargers?

 

Just what I thought.

 

A question for those with the relevant experience...

What is a 22kW charger going give you in 30 mins ?

...or is that the wrong question?

(I know it also depends on the vehicle)

 

 

.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

What is a 22kW charger going give you in 30 mins ?

 

40 or 50 miles if your car can use  all the 22kW three phase.

 

4 miles per kWh is a good rough estimate although my Mii is small and gets over 5 easily.

[PenrithBeacon]

15 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

40 or 50 miles if your car can use  all the 22kW three phase.

 

4 miles per kWh is a good rough estimate although my Mii is small and gets over 5 easily.

At what speed is this true for? Suburban or Motorway?

[rocor]

Charging at home would not be an option for me. So on the basis of charging infrastructure, what would be the minimum that would need to be in place to entice me into buying an electric car?

 

I would be looking at, charging stations to be as numerous, and have the same number of charge points as petrol stations have pumps (by then perhaps they will be one and the same).

 

If charging within the 20% to 80% range of a battery pack, then I would expect to be able to charge at around 10 miles of range per minute.

[boxbrownie]

11 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

At what speed is this true for? Suburban or Motorway?

Same as an ICE vehicle, the faster you go the less your energy/fuel lasts.

 

We get just over 4 miles per kWh driving normally on A/B roads, on motorways at 65/70 mph it can reduce to 3.5/3 miles per kWh.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

At what speed is this true for? Suburban or Motorway?

 

That was the lifetime average for my Leaf.

Motorways down towards 3

Suburban over 5. You get huge mileage at lower speeds.

[Ian J.]

Given a driving style that remains relatively constant, I imagine that economy in an electric vehicle will come down to how much road and wind resistance needs to be met. The faster a vehicle travels the more wind resistance it meets. In ICE cars, this is noticeable much above 55 and has a significant effect on fuel consumption, and will I imagine be the same in any type of EV. At low speeds though the ICE falls down on economy due to having to use lower gears, whereas for the EV that's not a factor. Both power types would still have to deal with getting the vehicle moving from standing start and hence use more power then, though.

 

Re charging, the petrol station as we know it will cease to exist. They'll be replaced by charging points in most bays in supermarket car parks, or possibly at dedicated 'charging parks' with maybe some kind of shopping facilities, not unlike small motorway services, just not on the motorway. There will of course still need to be by the kerb charging of some kind in suburban and rural locations, and home charging better than simple 13amp as well.

[PenrithBeacon]

47 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

That was the lifetime average for my Leaf.

Motorways down towards 3

Suburban over 5. You get huge mileage at lower speeds.

My Jazz has a most economical cruising speed at c55mph when it can achieve 56-58mpg or better. On motorways at 65-70 mph around 48 mpg, suburban 42-43 or less sometimes a lot less.

Clearly energy consumption for EVs has a different profile to the Jazz. It will be interesting to see what Honda come up with next year for their Jazz EV replacement. 

[black and decker boy]

My typical consumption on motorways is 3.5miles/KW, I have achieved close to 4.5 on occasion (generally in heavy but constant speed traffic so getting a good slipstream. A/B roads when driven sympathetically gets you 4 miles / KW. I have a 75KW battery.
 

driving into a stiff headwind on quiet road recently saw consumption rise to around 2.5miles/ KW

 

Winter seems to have 10-15% higher consumption than summer.

 

1 hr on a 22KW charger gets you roundly 11KW. For my long term average that is 38.5 miles. That’s not much if doing a long trip hence the need for and increased availability of 150kw + chargers on which you should never need more than 30minutes or so charger time.

[Ian Morgan]

When I was commuting with my Ioniq 35 miles each way up the M4 (albeit with 50mph limit the whole way during 'smart motorway' upgrade) I was getting 5.4 miles/kWh. Since lockdown, with the other half doing local journeys of 10 miles or so, it is now averaging 4.8 miles/kWh.

 

I don't know if it is down to different road conditions or different driving styles.

 

A full charge at home on the 7kW charger takes 2 to 3 hours. A 20 minute charge on a motorway does the same.

 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Clearly energy consumption for EVs has a different profile to the Jazz. It will be interesting to see what Honda come up with next year for their Jazz EV replacement. 

An EV’s  motor efficiency % is mid to high 90’s pretty much all the time. Thus economy is very simply related to speed. The faster you go the more you use.

An ICE vehicle is quite epically inefficient around town where an EV is using very little power and gets to recover some of it when you stop.

The current Jazz is series hybrid only in the UK so will be a bit better around town than yours and gains regen braking. On a motorway the difference will be narrower.

[Talltim]

Drove my first full EV yesterday, our company pool MG ZS EV. I was not impressed.

The actual car bit was OK, but pretty much all the human interface bits were terrible.

First off it had previously been driven by someone very short so I had to move the seat back before I could get in. Tried the most obvious lever, no, that's motorised up and down. Tried the next most obvious lever, no, that's motorised seat rear rake adjustment. Stuck my head in under the seat to find the back and forward lever, no. Eventually found that the up and down lever moves the seat back once fully down. Not sure what you do if you have a short body and long legs. And why bother wasting motors on those movements when you have failed to spend money on more important things?

Unplugged it from the charger and shut the cover OK, not sure why it needs a waterproof plug as well as the cover, surely one 'door' could be design to do both?

Went to put stuff int he boot, couldn't work out how to open it. No handle, but there's a button on the remote, maybe its powered? Nope, that does nothing.

Put stuff on the rear seat. Get in and can't find the start button. eventually find it behind the wheel at the left hand side. Now I know the traditional ignition key barrel is hidden, but it's there on the column because it mechanically locks the steering, but there no reason to hide the most important electrical button.

With the car turned on, I connect my phone via bluetooth, which was pretty easy although I noticed the touchscreen was a bit unresponsive. I then drove an picked up some more equipment. Next I thought I would set my destination in the satnav, and found that the touch screen was inaccurate and so slow that you would press a key again thinking it hadn't registered. Evenutally got a simple route set up and set off. I realised that that satnav wasn't talking, but noticed that mute was on so I turned it off. Then, whenever you would expect it to talk, it muted the music and said nothing.....

I ended up using both Google and Apple maps on my phone and both were better.

 

Next annoyance was on the motorway. In between the speedo and power settings dials is a small screen that displays the speed limit (as a road sign) and speed. Above 60mph the speed limit sign flashes, which is highly distracting. (it also flashes if you go above the limit, but this is more reasonable). I then noticed that the speed limit shown on this screen did not always match the speed limit on the satnav. I know that these are only guidance*, but....

 

The most annoying annoyance was the starting procedure. I went to several places that day, so stopped and started many times. Even after that I couldn't tell you what order you had to press the various buttons in. Every time seemed to be different. In one multistory it could have been embarassing, I'd parked a bit far back in the space because I was wary of hitting the pillar in front. When I got out I saw I had quite lot of room so decided to move it forward a bit. Could I get it started? Worse, one experiment took the electric handbrake off and I rolled back out of the bay a bit.

 

Last one was when I got back, I had to read the manual to find out how to open the charging socket door. I'm sorry, if you design a simple thing like a door so unintuitively, you shouldn't be a designer.

 

None of these problems are really specific to electric cars, but you have to wonder why they have decided to reinvent the wheel on so many of the interfaces that already have perfectly good solutions. It didn't give me a good first EV experience, but I'm definitely never buying an MG rather than never buying an EV.

 

*My old Garmin standalone satnav once showed a 45mph limit....

Edited July 27, 2021 by Talltim

[PenrithBeacon]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mg-motor/zs-ev

[Michael Hodgson]

On 23/07/2021 at 19:55, PenrithBeacon said:

I do wonder just how useful these will be. Aren't they competing with home chargers?

Waitrose are - their segment of the market have private driveways and garages

Aldi and Lidl aren't - their target customers struggle to find to find a gap somewhere in the street or parking on the pavement every time they get home, so they can't use home charging. 

Yes, I do know they're stereotypes and that one of the ways the rich stay rich is by slumming it at Aldi.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Aldi and Lidl aren't - their target customers struggle to find to find a gap somewhere in the street or parking on the pavement every time they get home, so they can't use home charging. 

 

It's a smart move my Lidl to put rapids at their shops. You have a stream of people who maybe wouldn't normally shop there with half an hour to kill so they pop in and discover it's perfectly nice. Next week they do their weekly shop at Lidl instead.

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, 30801 said:

 

It's a smart move my Lidl to put rapids at their shops. You have a stream of people who maybe wouldn't normally shop there with half an hour to kill so they pop in and discover it's perfectly nice. Next week they do their weekly shop at Lidl instead.

Yes, and they do have a few affluent customers like a farmer I knew who boasted that he whenever he went to see his bank manager he made a point of putting on the tattiest old clothes and tied his trousers up with a length of baler twine!  Normally he was smartly dressed, and he only ever grew wheat because he didn't want to get his shoes covered in farmyard dung!   The cowsheds which were therefore redundant made an excellent home to the local model railway club, easily heated and no trace of damp.