Ingleford Wharf: 1870s canalside inglenook on the "M&WJR" in 00, and Victoria Quay: a 1900s WIP in 0

[Mikkel]

Lovely drains.

 

(being able to make such odd statements with complete legitimacy is one of the joys of this hobby)

 

I don't recall seeing troughs outside GWR stables - but I may have overlooked them, and in any case yours is not the sleek standardized railway that the GWR strived to be in the 1900s.

 

 

 

[magmouse]

8 hours ago, Schooner said:

Suck it and see! One drop, mix, check - a little does go a long way

 

Yes, but beware - there is an important nuance here. When judging the density of colour of a translucent material, it depends on the lighting. In your finished canal, the light arrives at the top surface, passes through the tinted resin to the bottom, reflects off the bottom surface, and comes back up, out of the resin and to our eye. It passes through the thickness of the resin twice. If when mixing you hold the transparent/translucent mixing vessel up to the light to gauge the colour, the light only passes through the resin once, and it looks much lighter. It is easy to be fooled into tinting the resin much too dark this way. Make sure you judge the colour looking down into the resin with the mixing vessel on a coloured background similar to the bottom of your canal.

 

But you probably knew all that...

 

8 hours ago, Schooner said:

but happily I can't believe canals that were any clearer than they are today, so if it goes all oops-shaped then i'll just paint the bugg'r brown!

 

Defeatist attitude - nul point. We are watching carefully...

 

Nick.

[magmouse]

8 hours ago, Schooner said:

Less ideal is the trough. To me it looks like something which belongs in a market square, not a small working yard. What do you reckon?

 

Is the bit at the right hand end a drinking fountain for humans? That is the part that says market square to me, I think.

 

Nick.

[MrWolf]

34 minutes ago, magmouse said:

 

Is the bit at the right hand end a drinking fountain for humans? That is the part that says market square to me, I think.

 

Nick.

 

I used WPY53 Village pumps and horse trough on this page. It's not a good picture though!

 

https://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Paccessories___1_76_scale__OO_-p1.html

 

 

This is mine painted up with a little modification to the base to make it look more like stone than a metal slab.

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by MrWolf
Picture

[Schooner]

6 hours ago, Mikkel said:

I don't recall seeing troughs outside GWR stables

No stables, but 

 

 

GWR's Cirencester terminus. Check out not only the arrival/dep platforms but also the slightly bonkers loop in between. No wonder it was re-designed. Twice.

 

I would, of course, be cribbing heavily from its original charm-laden unadulterated original form* :) The sister map showing the rest of the throat completes the picture, and even includes little something for @brumtb

 

There's been a slight local variation of opinion re who's using what clamps for what job where and when. Short story - I'm nipping off to Wickes. Anyone need something picking up?

 

*Not just for this reason. It overlays particularly well over the wharf footprint, which is pleasing, including the coal yard and goods roads. Suggestions for other inspirations welcome as ever.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Schooner
*

[Schooner]

3 hours ago, magmouse said:

But you probably knew all that...

I know loads of stuff which I either a) let slip my mind in moments of enthusiasm / b) ignore in case the knowledge slows me down! Reminders useful and appreciated, always :)

 

In this case fairly easy to check with a test depth in a clear container held over the canalbed. There will be a little more light getting in around the sides, but if I err on the side of caution (ha!) it should get me in the right ballpark. Still, I think it's going to be pretty thick - I've not expectation (or desire!) to see the bottom. It's more about the nice bright glossy frontage/top, and to cover the initial design when I thought I might want full-hull boats. 

 

2 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

I used WPY53 Village pumps and horse trough on this page.

Boom, ta. That looks about as good as they get. Looking for other things to add to the order to justify the postage I almost bought a vardo...still might...

 

[MrWolf]

I suspect that little casting has been around for a good fifty years, but it's still a good one, I remember scratching about to find one when I returned to the hobby and was pleased to find a lot of things I remember are still available, just not necessarily from the same outlets.

[Annie]

5 hours ago, Schooner said:

No stables, but 

 

 

GWR's Cirencester terminus. Check out not only the arrival/dep platforms but also the slightly bonkers loop in between. No wonder it was re-designed. Twice.

 

I would, of course, be cribbing heavily from its original charm-laden unadulterated original form* :) The sister map showing the rest of the throat completes the picture, and even includes little something for @brumtb

 

There's been a slight local variation of opinion re who's using what clamps for what job where and when. Short story - I'm nipping off to Wickes. Anyone need something picking up?

 

*Not just for this reason. It overlays particularly well over the wharf footprint, which is pleasing, including the coal yard and goods roads. Suggestions for other inspirations welcome as ever.

Nice OS map and trackplan, - and it's one for the real GWR too.

[JustinDean]

Cirencester Town would be a great subject for a model. I wonder if anyone has already had a go? Here’s the track plan after the loop was changed.

 

Jay

 

 

[Annie]

42 minutes ago, JustinDean said:

Cirencester Town would be a great subject for a model. I wonder if anyone has already had a go? Here’s the track plan after the loop was changed.

Yes the original 1875 loop arrangement is a bit odd, but then if I did build up a representation of Cirencester Town I'd be doing a 19th century version and staying with how things are on the OS map.  The Broad Gauge trackwork was converted to Stephenson's coal cart gauge in 1872, but I think I might ignore that.

 

Some excellent early photos can be found on the Disused Stations website.

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/c/cirencester_town/index.shtml

Edited April 26, 2023 by Annie
More information

[The White Rabbit]

On 25/04/2023 at 16:39, Schooner said:

Advice please:

 

On 25/04/2023 at 16:39, Schooner said:

('Don't cock it up' is already noted, thanks :)

 

I've not used that stuff myself but from mixing other products to get model water, I'd say mix very thoroughly. As thoroughly as the time you have before it starts curing will allow. With Deluxe Materials and other 'official' model railway products, I mixed the two components for twice as long as the instructions suggested. 

 

And it's useful to protect the material from dust while it's setting - I use a 'yak' style tent of spare doweling and balsa pieces with clingfilm draped over the top. I found it makes quite a difference, even in a 'clean' environment. 

[Metropolitan H]

19 hours ago, Schooner said:

..............................

 

I think Nick wins today's Utility Prize

Suck it and see! One drop, mix, check - a little does go a long way - but happily I can't believe canals that were any clearer than they are today, so if it goes all oops-shaped then i'll just paint the bugg'r brown!

 

About 45+ years back on a day-trip on a narrow-boat around some of the BCN network, I was warned about clear canal water - it normally indicated that the water was effectively poisioned by toxic chemicals - so not capable of sustaining life, so "Do not touch / bathe / drink" and in some areas it would burn holes in your clothing if it got splashed.

 

The other thing we witnessed was a boat pole ued to help get through a shallow bit came up and the wet end started smouldering due to the phosphorous picked up from the bottom - old leaving from the regular passage of the phosphorous boats. The pole end went back to be trailed in the water till the muck washed off.

 

So you can probably have clear canals in some of the nastiest places - but brown elsewhere. But best to drink beer and boil any water used for cooking or washing.

 

Regards

Chris H

[brumtb]

On 26/04/2023 at 00:34, Schooner said:

Thanks all for the good wishes! 

 

I think Nick wins today's Utility Prize

Suck it and see! One drop, mix, check - a little does go a long way - but happily I can't believe canals that were any clearer than they are today, so if it goes all oops-shaped then i'll just paint the bugg'r brown!

 

Agreed to parts but one.

 

Aiming for a 4-part process

• c.2mm first pour to prove the dam and get a level to see if I need to do anything drastic to the wharf edge
• After 12hrs or so c.20mm second pour
• "    "   10mm third pour
• After watercraft complete, Mod Podge Gloss (eg) final layer to embed them and add a little texture to the surface (also masking any meniscus). @chuffinghell has absolutely nailed the look I'm aiming for on the rippled-reflections front.

The sole disagreement is on clearer top layers. It makes intuitive sense, which is why that was exactly what I did with the mill pond! It looks very strange having a glassy-clear layer over a soupy one. Better to go for less pigment in a deeper pour, it gives a more natural increase of murk :)

 

Oh no, it is!

 

Less extreme - some clever chemistry, wwll documented tolerances and the protracted cure make it less exciting than epoxies used to be - but defs something to be aware of...especially on a foamcore layout...😇

 

He's got a lot to answer for, that Mr Towan! His Alaskan river scene was the reason I decided I must have full-depth 'water' as the layout front...

 

...turns out wilderness rivers and Industrial-era canals are not so similar as I'd imagined in that moment of enthusiasm...!

 

Cheers all, will fold in the good vibes with Luke Towan vids and makers instructions (madness, I'm off the chain, I know. The joys of using trade supplies :) ) and let you know how I get on! Pretty comfy playing with resins so fingers x'd it'll be a really boring few days...

 

In other news I've been ignoring the last wagons (I'll have to do them whilst the resin is curing) but chipping away at scenic jobs. Spring has sprung at Ingleford, the towpath has been remodelled, platform stuck down and bedded in etc. Fitting drains was much more fun than it sounds, or looks

The yard was sized off the embossing tool (from @Giles). Ideal.

 

Less ideal is the trough. To me it looks like something which belongs in a market square, not a small working yard. What do you reckon?

 

Would a suitably qualified and experienced horse driver from the Parish membership mind telling me the sort of set-dressing gubbins which would sell it as a believable scene? I've not spent enough time around stables to pick up a feel for what they look like to someone who knows what they're looking at!

I do like the hayrack, is it your own or can you say where it came from, please?

Thanks

Tony

 

[Schooner]

@brumtb No credit due here - it's part of the (excellent) kit

 

 

Clampgate continues. 

 

This means I had a clear run this evening to have a good sort-out of the room in which the layout currently resides, give everything a good hoover to start reducing dust for the resin pour (hopefully over the weekend, but we'll see).

 

So obviously I tipped out some bits and bobs and had a play instead. Shall we have an Operator's Overview, and then perhaps a go for a quick stroll?

 

Not much to say about these - they're still full of placeholders, but the holders are starting to give a more coherent sense of place...

 

 

 

...I hope. These are fairly random bits and mostly ancient plastic figures, with even 'proper' items (like the mooring rings) just loosely placed to get a feel for them.

 

This makes it a really good time to share you thoughts on the scenes, how they're coming together - or, especially, not - so those ideas can be folded in as we move towards the final furlong...

Edited April 27, 2023 by Schooner
Sp. Again.

[Schooner]

Wot I Saw on My Walk to Work (or 'Cock-up Close-ups'  - E.J's back in town!):

 

Don't worry, no 'funny' captions this eve! I did vow to have no in-motion poses, but I love this horse stance - it captures a sense of power and momentum which I like, 'tho failed to illustrate in this pic - and thought I might allow it to be the exception. It also does solid work in masking the edge of the layout as seen through the arch by the operator :) Blokely might be taking a minute to lean on the gate in the sunshine before opening it to let the horse through, so I think that's static enough.

 

 

Labourers who Lunch/Three Men and a Boat

 

 

This view - through the open gates along the wharf to the shed and trow in the background - is one I've had in mind since the very start of the project. Nice to finally see it as roughly intended!

 

 

Remember how I lost one section of fence, only to find it a few days later well away from it's natural environment? Well, the section of wall which ran off with it must be enjoying foreign climes so much it's decided to stay. Seems silly to order another pack for one section but I'll have to bite the bullet at some point. 

 

 

The tree will some get some needed TLC before long, but I'm enjoying the dappled shade it's already throwing.

 

 

A quick and dirty (and very ugly) pile of coal. Failed experiment. Swapping out the coal hole (which just seemed monumentally silly on a coal wharf) with a water-butt is an ongoing experiment...

 

 

How do I make this gate look like it's the old main gate, before the railway redeveloped the wharf?

 

 

Gubbins.

 

 

Three colours in one view?! Sensory overload! Gateposts to be moved to match gate, not vice versa.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Schooner

[mullie]

Some excellent modelling on show, the atmosphere of the line is coming together, don't be too hard on yourself. 

 

Martyn 

[WFPettigrew]

49 minutes ago, Schooner said:

Blokely might be taking a minute to lean on the gate in the sunshine before opening it to let the horse through, so I think that's static enough.

 

Genuine question - were there gates on towpaths?  Given that the horses were often left to their own devices to plod along, etc.?

 

Other than that, it seems that ever since you "larged it" with that red purchase, the 4mm has come on in massive leaps and bounds, and all in the right direction. 

 

All the best

 

Neil 

[Schooner]

34 minutes ago, mullie said:

...don't be too hard on yourself. 

Not a frequent concern! Behind all the 'how to make it betters' is solid nugget of smug at how much satisfaction I'm getting from this 'return' to modelling*. Mind you, if I knew it'd end up with all kitbuilt stock I'd have gone for EM!

 

*Given that previously my 'modelling' was mostly shunting RTR stock to make up a train a corner termimus, then setting it running round a circuit as pleasant background whilst I got on with important task of reading more Terry Pratchett...

 

23 minutes ago, WFPettigrew said:

Genuine question - were there gates on towpaths?  Given that the horses were often left to their own devices to plod along, etc.?

It's a good question, as on many canal networks the answer was 'no'. In the case of the Thames and Severn however, like the Kennet and Avon of similar age and inheritance, local landowners did not fence their land off from but down to the water:

 

No idea why this is, but I suspect it's related to the history of bowhauliers on early river navigations; the kind of commercial waterway from which both canals grew.

 

This meant that field boundaries had to be maintained across the towpath and down to the water to stop your livestock getting 'accidentally' caught up in your neighbour's market drove. Hence

being a feature typical of the T&S and K&A (maybe among others, I don't know).

 

23 minutes ago, WFPettigrew said:

Other than that, it seems that ever since you "larged it" with that red purchase, the 4mm has come on in massive leaps and bounds...

Indeed! I've found myself engaged in something of a race (shhh, don't tell @Tricky!) which has helped me try to further a task each time I go to the layout.

 

Well, unless I cover it in temporary stuff for some photos that is, but they're useful too!

Edited April 27, 2023 by Schooner

[MrWolf]

How to make the gate look like the main gate from the canal era?

Perhaps a couple of imposing looking stone pillars with caps? I'm thinking round and sandstone?

[NHY 581]

7 hours ago, MrWolf said:

How to make the gate look like the main gate from the canal era?

Perhaps a couple of imposing looking stone pillars with caps? I'm thinking round and sandstone?

 

Balls. 

 

 

[Mr Cervus]

Latecomer to this correspondence, and from a very tangential direction.  So I must start by saying what a pleasingly spacious and well-crafted piece of modelling (and the period happens to be to my taste too).  Less aware of it being the 'inglenook' design than of its general feel. Anyway, I hesitate to make a suggestion to someone who makes wagons so beautfully, but I was searching for 'slate load' and came upon your comment 'must make...' months back.  In case it's of interest/amusement, here was my own attempt: madness lies in fixing individual slates, but an old desk diary with the pages slightly offset, glued together, and sawn into strips, then painted (ok, a different sort of madness) means one can stick them in blocks, at least, and hide someweight indide.  I wonder how far this is from how slates actually looked (too young to have seen this)... clearly an apprentice slatecutter let loose to split duchesses for an undiscriminating customer...

(apologies for that I did not bother to take a new picture without the horsebox)

[brumtb]

11 hours ago, Schooner said:

@brumtb No credit due here - it's part of the (excellent) kit

 

 

Clampgate continues. 

 

This means I had a clear run this evening to have a good sort-out of the room in which the layout currently resides, give everything a good hoover to start reducing dust for the resin pour (hopefully over the weekend, but we'll see).

 

So obviously I tipped out some bits and bobs and had a play instead. Shall we have an Operator's Overview, and then perhaps a go for a quick stroll?

 

Not much to say about these - they're still full of placeholders, but the holders are starting to give a more coherent sense of place...

 

 

 

...I hope. These are fairly random bits and mostly ancient plastic figures, with even 'proper' items (like the mooring rings) just loosely placed to get a feel for them.

 

This makes it a really good time to share you thoughts on the scenes, how they're coming together - or, especially, not - so those ideas can be folded in as we move towards t

11 hours ago, Schooner said:

@brumtb No credit due here - it's part of the (excellent) kit

 

 

 

.

Ah thanks, looks a nice building but I guess it's back to making the hay racks myself.

Tony

[Lacathedrale]

I continually come back to this layout - the combination of light tones, selective colours and the use of open space really set it apart from the usual 'shunting plank'. Thank you for continulally sharing your progress.

[WFPettigrew]

11 hours ago, Schooner said:

No idea why this is, but I suspect it's related to the history of bowhauliers on early river navigations; the kind of commercial waterway from which both canals grew.

 

Thanks, I will remove that query from my mind. 

[magmouse]

57 minutes ago, Mr Cervus said:

madness lies in fixing individual slates, but an old desk diary with the pages slightly offset, glued together, and sawn into strips, then painted (ok, a different sort of madness)

 

I went for the first kind of madness, admittedly in 16mm scale:

 

 

Black plasticard cut into rectangles. I scribe the whole sheet and then sand it down, which makes it go dark grey rather than black. The strips can then be snapped off the sheet and into individual slates. I make the inside ones smaller, to save plasticard - you get through a lot - and build the load onto a former which drops into the wagon. A few full size ones are wedged in around the edges to make the load look tightly packed.

 

 

I am still pondering whether to try the same technique in 7mm scale for a Cambrian 2-planker, much like your very characterful example, @Mr Cervus.

 

Nick.