Supermarkets - empty shelves therein

[burgundy]

43 minutes ago, alastairq said:

I cannot believe folk are still buying{?} newspapers....

It may be a result of the shortage of toilet paper. 

Best wishes 

Eric

[alastairq]

23 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

The link requires you to login to Facebook

Quote

Jim Titheridge

m17ti sSSertepnrtieonmber gat n06i:1r7  · 

So, you are running out of food on the shelves, fuel in the garages, you can’t buy things you need, because the shops can’t get their supplies.

Why is that?

A shortage of goods? No

A shortage of money? No

A shortage of drivers to deliver the goods? Well, sort of.

There isn’t actually a shortage of drivers, what we have, is a shortage of people who can drive, that are willing to drive any more. You might wonder why that is. I can’t answer for all drivers, but I can give you the reason I no longer drive. Driving was something I always yearned to do as a young boy, and as soon as I could, I managed to get my driving licence, I even joined the army to get my HGV licence faster, I held my licence at the age of 17. It was all I ever wanted to do, drive trucks, I had that vision of being a knight of the roads, bringing the goods to everyone, providing a service everyone needed. What I didn’t take into account was the absolute abuse my profession would get over the years.

I have seen a massive decline in the respect this trade has, first, it was the erosion of truck parking and transport café’s, then it was the massive increase in restricting where I could stop, timed weight limits in just about every city and town, but not all the time, you can get there to do your delivery, but you can’t stay there, nobody wants an empty truck, nobody wants you there once they have what they did want.

Compare France to the UK. I can park in nearly every town or village, they have marked truck parking bays, and somewhere nearby, will be a small routier, where I can get a meal and a shower, the locals respect me, and have no problems with me or my truck being there for the night.

Go out onto the motorway services, and I can park for no cost, go into the service area, and get a shower for a minimal cost, and have freshly cooked food, I even get to jump the queues, because others know that my time is limited, and respect I am there because it is my job. Add to that, I even get a 20% discount of all I purchase. Compare that to the UK £25-£40 just to park overnight, dirty showers, and expensive, dried (under heat lamps) food that is overpriced, and I have no choice but to park there, because you don’t want me in your towns and cities.

Ask yourself how you would feel, if doing your job actually cost you money at the end of the day, just so you could rest.

But that isn’t the half of it. Not only have we been rejected from our towns and cities, but we have also suffered massive pay cuts, because of the influx of foreign drivers willing to work for a wage that is high where they come from, companies eagerly recruited from the eastern bloc, who can blame them, why pay good money when you can get cheap labour, and a never ending supply of it as well. Never mind that their own countries would suffer from a shortage themselves, that was never our problem, they could always get people from further afield if they needed drivers.

We were once seen as knights of the road, now we are seen as the lepers of society. Why would anyone want to go back to that?

If you are worried about not getting supplies on your supermarket shelves, ask your local council just how well they cater for trucks in your district.

I know Canterbury has the grand total of zero truck parking facilities, but does have a lot of restrictions, making it difficult for trucks to stop anywhere.

Do you want me to go back to driving trucks? Give me a good reason to do so. Give anyone a good reason to take it up as a profession.

Perhaps once you work out why you can’t, you will understand why your shelves are not as full as they could be.

I tried it for over 30 years, but will never go back, you just couldn't pay me enough.

Thank you to all those people who have shared this post. I never expected such a massive response, but am glad that this message is getting out there. I really hope that some people who are in a position to change just how bad it is for some drivers, can influence the powers that be to make changes for the better. Perhaps some city and town councillors have seen this, and are willing to bring up these issues at their council meetings. It surely cannot be too much to ask of a town/city to provide facilities for those who are doing so much to make sure their economies run and their shops and businesses are stocked with supplies. I never wanted any luxuries, just somewhere safe to park, and some basic ablutions that are maintained to a reasonable standard. I spent my nights away from my home and family for you, how much is it to ask that you at least give me access to some basic services.

There are tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of licence holders just like me, who will no longer tolerate the conditions. So the ball is firmly in the court of the councils to solve this problem.

There...just for you?   

[MarkC]

The parallels with British Merchant Seamen in that previous post are familiar - I and many others saw our jobs disappear thanks to the influx of cheaper manpower. I was one of the lucky ones, being in what was (and still is) a more specialist sector.

 

However, as intimated, local councils are definitely a sizeable part of the problem for HGV drivers, for the reasons stated. Ditto these so-called service stations on motorways & trunk routes - out to fleece all motorists for as much as they can.

 

We have a massive problem; the question is, how to solve it? And allowing foreign drivers back in on a massive scale isn't it - unless they and their employers are made to adhere to the same standards, pay & conditions as our own people. This "Flag of Convenience" style of operation was never going to end well, for anyone except owners...

[chris p bacon]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

There...just for you?   

 

Thanks, I've never signed up to FB so was unable to read it.

 

I agree with part of what was written and that drivers had become 2nd class citizens on the road network. In the 80's a joinery firm I worked for had a small lorry we used for deliveries, only 2 of us had clean licences to be able to drive it and even then finding somewhere to park and eat was a trial.

 

Just on the outskirts of town several laybys used as overnight stops by trucks were double yellow lined to stop the practice.    The morning clean up by local council staff yeilded an average of 3-5 empty vodka bottles filled with 'P' and carrier bags with <insert turd emoji here>  so the double yellows were painted to curb what was becoming a health hazard.

[spikey]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

There...just for you?   

 

And me.  Thank you.

[Guest]

If you drive to the supermarket you might be out of luck...

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/23/bp-rations-fuel-deliveries-petrol-stations/

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by 30801

[alastairq]

There is much political banging-on about making testing 'easier', recruiting, etc.

I seem to recall there were massive campaigns, financial incentives, etc and much money poured into the health sector to boost nursing numbers?

 

Everybody bangs on with ideas to make things easier, or 'boost recruitment', but, as the health sector discovered it's one thing having the finance there to increase numbers...its entirely another thing to actually get folk to actually apply for the positions!

 

We've had this  problem for 50 or 60 years now.

The problem being that the so-called 'working classes' in the UK gradually ceased to exist as such.

Back in the 1950's through to the 1970's, I recall London Transport having real staffing issues with drivers. No-one actually wanted to drive buses in London...out of the nations so-called 'work-force'. Staff had to be recruited from other parts of the world.  Huge numbers came from areas like the Caribbean, simply to drive London buses.  Only the daft young enthusiasts like me would apply to LT to be trained as a driver!  My family [such as it was] were frankly horrified that I went to drive London buses, instead of making use of my ''education' and tottering off to university to study for ''something worthwhile''...

Imagine going around the 6th form colleges today and trying to recruit youngsters to be 'lorry drivers?'

 

Perhaps we should encourage more boat people to arrive, as long as they promise to drive lorries?

 

Shortage of tanker drivers?

 

The Army [& Hair Force] have already got  training in hand for military personnel to take over driving civilian tankers...[Op summat or other]....Strategic operation in case of a tanker drivers' strike....but could easily be used for other strategic reasons. [These folk are trained & assessed to the tanker Owners' required standards....before anybody questions the wisdom of letting an RLC driver loose in Birmingham with a tanker full of petrol?  How do I know? Well,it was one of the strings to my bow I had, when I worked]

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by alastairq

[APOLLO]

Called at Tesco Wigan this afternoon for petrol (£1.40 a litre YIKES!!). No supply problems but on leaving at the very well signposted for Tesco entrance a big Tesco artic sailed past (missed his turning). Following him up the hill on the way home he kept slowing at junctions, looking for a place to turn, and eventually decided to do a multi point turn at the hospital entrance. I kept my distance.

 

HGV Drivers - I've sh1t em !!!!!!!

 

Brit15

[Legend]

The latest one is apparently some BP garages are running out of fuel as no HGVs to replenish

 

On the plus side I watched news last night and as theres a shortage of HGV drivers more containers are going by train . The picture was of containers being loaded at Liverpool docks , which were on a short route to Birmingham . Chance for a modal shift to Railfreight here.  Its certainly apparent if you ever drive up or down the M6/M74 the constant flows of Gist, DHL lorries, almost in convoy,  that could presumably go up the WCML

[alastairq]

 

According to the RHA, the average age of a UK lorry driver is 55!!!

 

Less than 1% of lorry drivers are under the age of 25!

 

The last bit actually says it all, about the labour issues we as an affluent nation[as well as others] face.

Our younger generations no longer deem it appropriate to be aiming to work in such menial trades.  Or maybe, it's the parent of our younger generations who are doing the deeming??

[Nick C]

21 minutes ago, alastairq said:

The last bit actually says it all, about the labour issues we as an affluent nation[as well as others] face.

Our younger generations no longer deem it appropriate to be aiming to work in such menial trades.  Or maybe, it's the parent of our younger generations who are doing the deeming??

 

Indeed - even when I was at school in the '90s, it was very much made clear that we should be aspiring for university followed by a 'professional' job. Fine by me, as I was academic, but much less suited to several of my classmates who weren't. I suspect much of it was nothing to do with what suited our potential as students, and more about the school's position in the league table...

 

They tried to push quite a few of us into applying for Oxbridge as well - I refused, knowing that firstly, it wouldn't suit me, and secondly, the redbricks were better for the type of course I wanted to study.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Nick C

[Phil Parker]

I remember, when doing my A levels, being given the only bit of careers advice, from a teacher - Get your A levels, go to university, become a teacher. Basically - "I've never left school and don't think anyone else should either."

 

With that sort of thinking, no wonder we have lots of golf course designers, but not many plumbers, lorry drivers etc.

[Michael Hodgson]

19 minutes ago, alastairq said:

According to the RHA, the average age of a UK lorry driver is 55!!!

 

Less than 1% of lorry drivers are under the age of 25!

 

I seem to recall British Railways worrying a good many years ago that the same could be said for their drivers.  Their firemen could still fill "dead men's shoes" and were rapidly doing so and nor being replaced by "cleaners" because of dieselisation and then the move to single manning.  The concern was the age profile of the workforce - everybody would be reaching retirement age together and there would be a lack of continuity.  

 

Promotion timescales had certainly accelerated from the unreasonably lengthy learning process of the steam era but it was necessary that replacements were recruited as drivers without having to go through all these earlier lower paid jobs.  And pay had to increase to get enough of them.

 

Of course the railway industry wasn't the slowest industry with that attitude ... that honour goes to the monarchy, for as far as I can see the longest apprenticeship served by anybody in this country is the next King of England who is well past normal retirement age and has yet to start in the job!

 

As for 25 year olds, isn't there a restriction that you have to be 25 to drive some classes of heavy vehicle - buses perhaps?  I'm sure I've yet to hear of a "boy racer" in a Routemaster.  

[Michael Hodgson]

7 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I remember, when doing my A levels, being given the only bit of careers advice, from a teacher - Get your A levels, go to university, become a teacher. Basically - "I've never left school and don't think anyone else should either."

 

"Those who can do, those who can't teach"

[dhjgreen]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

"Those who can do, those who can't teach"

Those that can't teach, teach teachers.

[ejstubbs]

On 22/09/2021 at 14:56, EddieB said:

We did have such a storage facility, but it has all but finished being decommissioned - reason given as safety concerns. 

 

Was that the one which had supposedly only remained gas-tight because the ground around it was frozen solid?  The problem being that if you removed too much gas, the ground would start to thaw...

 

(A bit like the old Billingsgate Market building on Lower Thames Street, which was turned in to offices after the market itself moved to the Isle of Dogs.  When they decommissioned the cold store in the basement, the river started to seep in through the no-longer-frozen foundations.)

[Michael Hodgson]

24 minutes ago, Nick C said:

 

Indeed - even when I was at school in the '90s, it was very much made clear that we should be aspiring for university followed by a 'professional' job. Fine by me, as I was academic, but much less suited to several of my classmates who weren't. I suspect much of it was nothing to do with what suited our potential as students, and more about the school's position in the league table...

 

They tried to push quite a few of us into applying for Oxbridge as well - I refused, knowing that firstly, it wouldn't suit me, and secondly, the redbricks were better for the type of course I wanted to study.

I was pushed to apply to Oxbridge too but didn't know it wouldn't suit me.  Fortunately they had separate entrance exams - which I failed.  I do remember that the rejection letter from Cambridge was somewhat less courteous than I would have expected from an educational establishment in that I was simply addressed by surname without Mr.   

 

I didn't go to a "redbrick" though, the contemporary term for newer universities was "plateglass", although Warwick was mostly white tiles falling off the concrete walls because of low quality adhesive.  All the doorways were protected by porches made of scaffolding in case people got hit on the head by falling rubble! 

[beast66606]

So the MSM run a story about petrol shortages but tell people not to panic and ... guess what ? - massive queues at Sainsburys this morning for fuel, maybe not headlining with "FUEL SHORTAGES" and then in smaller print / later in the report saying "at some places" - irresponsible twots.

 

Not a lot of choices around here so if people get nervous and want to fill up then chaos ensues at the few petrol stations we have.

[Ron Ron Ron]

19 minutes ago, beast66606 said:

So the MSM run a story about petrol shortages but tell people not to panic and ... guess what ? - ......

 

I went out earlier and there were queues at three of our local filling stations, BP, Esso and Shell.

MSM's self fulfilling news story...with the shortages being blamed on someone else.

 

 

 

.

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

As for 25 year olds, isn't there a restriction that you have to be 25 to drive some classes of heavy vehicle - buses perhaps?  I'm sure I've yet to hear of a "boy racer" in a Routemaster.  

 No. The minimum age to undergo a PCV test  is 21.

Same for the CAt C LGV test.

The exceptions being, the Armed Forces {GB], and those fortunate enough to obtain a recognised apprenticeship in the haulage industry. They can take a CAt C LGV test at age 18. [C+E can be taken & driven, but a far as I recall, cannot drive without a qualified driver's mate, with a trailer.}

 

I broke from the system of education education education when I passed my 2nd Mates exams when at sea, employed by BP tankers...and decided soditt, and left.  Then got a job doing something I fancied at the time, being a London Transport bus driver [1972, still old school]....I passed my test [PSV, there was a difference]....2 months after my 21st birthday.

 

You won't find many young bus drivers today simply because no youngsters want to be bothered!  In general.

 

Bus & lorry driving were traditionally [past 40 years or so] seen as being jobs one took when there was nothing else to be had.

 

BAck in the 70's and 80's, I remember students coming onto the buses for summertime jobs [East Yorkshire Motor Services, United, etc], as conductors....and one or two went on to pass their tests and drive. With rare exceptions, they all enjoyed their time on the buses....it wasn't quite what the general public thought it was, as a job.

 

I left the buses [along with many other 'old hands'] when I noticed how we were being considered less & less as 'drivers', and more like shop assistants!

[Ron Ron Ron]

Sky News....

 

 

 

 

Daily Fail...

 

 

[MarkC]

Perhaps if the MSM stopped with the scare stories then life would continue as normal. Why, anyone would think that they had an agenda...

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

"Those who can do, those who can't teach"

 Usually spouted by those who actually don't have a proper understanding of the skills they are supposed to display.

Often cannot get their heads around the difference between 'My way' and the 'Correct way'...

 

I usually found 'those that can do', actually cannot, in reality, so need refreshing..ie re-teaching!

It's often referred to a skills fade.....An initial lack of proper understanding leads eventually to so-called 'bad habits'.....

 

Also, teaching is a whole new world in itself.....right across the board, as I found out 20 years ago. I too, had the above idea.....what a shock I got!

There is always a huge disconnect between what [work] practitioners think people should know.....and what those people actually should know.

[alastairq]

Aaaah, the sunny South[east?]....up here, I popped 20 pension quids worth of E10 in one of my old bangers [in the south it would be  a ''classic car''].....Esso spot, no queues, just a continuous flow of customers, and the fuel costs £1.34 a litre...which is somewhat less than that in the photos.  This at a 'main road' service station....

 

I guess we don't get MSN up here? CAn't tear it up to wipe bums when the toilet roll shortage hits?

 

Mind, we have our 'own' refineries just an hour's drive away[Humber region]....so i guess much will depend on how close one is to refineries, and how many folk are runnign around in cars, locally?

 

OR....is is a secret ply to convince everybody to go electric??????

[johnd]

Electrickery  is no problem, easy to charge and a lot less stressfull to drive, making driving a pleasure again !