JohnH Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 14 hours ago, AY Mod said: Maybe not but I think it's, if not appropriate, timely to say that loss of sleep and unnecessary stress has been caused to others through the chosen actions. As someone who has, in the past, tried to protect my own IP because of infringement, I couldn't agree more A Y. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmorgancym Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 43 minutes ago, Vistisen said: I very carefully wrote that I was not commenting on the right and wrongs. I was wodering whether Studio Canal was that worried by it They would be, because Rapido could sue because Studio Canal have breached the exclusive rights deal signed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2022 25 minutes ago, eldomtom2 said: They're illustrations rather than still frames, but they're definitely direct tracings from the film, and that is copyright infringement regardless of whether or not the items inside the box are. Any decent artist would be able to make a picture very like, but not identical to, the original. Most people wouldn't be able to see the difference when used as box art. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.C.L. 11 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) I feel the replica Liverpool and Manchester coaches included in 'The Lady With a Lamp' could be Hornby's strong suit in all of this as the only items not duplicated by Rapido's offering. They were built to run with Lion, not Rocket, and even Rapido's Lion product page has a classic photo of the loco at the head of them. It's interesting to see how the coaches' livery has been modified for the film and one can imagine the film crew hastily painting over the words 'Liverpool' and 'Manchester'. Hornby's description of the pack says "three L&MR First Class coaches, one of which was intriguingly unnamed" - the 'unnamed' coach actually being 'Traveller' (the one Hornby measured up at the NRM). I wonder why the other two got to keep their names for filming - possibly because the gold leaf would be more difficult to reinstate than the rest of the lettering but one anonymous coach was needed for close-ups. Personally I would rather have them in proper full livery. Edited January 12, 2022 by I.C.L. 11 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, I.C.L. 11 said: Hornby's description of the pack says "three L&MR First Class coaches, one of which was intriguingly unnamed" - the 'unnamed' coach actually being 'Traveller' (the one Hornby measured up at the NRM). I wonder why the other two got to keep their names for filming - possibly because the gold leaf would be more difficult to reinstate than the rest of the lettering but one anonymous coach was needed for close-ups. In that use case is it possible it only lost its name on one side ? ive never heard of, let alone seen this film.. how much footage of Lion is in it ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Titan said: I beg to differ! And if you missed that there will be a strong case that other people will, thus denting the "inspired by" defence further! And I now see that the background black and white film on this box is the Titfield Thunderbolt, more evidence of something hastily put together? Thanks for that. So they have in this case used images of frames from the film which suggesrs (to me at any rate) that they had agreement from Studio Canal to do os but the Titfield film reel images are a pastiche. The more you look at it the more shambolic they get and it increasingly looks like a rushed job whereas here was me thinking that 'its all about detail' - just goes to show that I shouldn't believe anything I see and hear on tv. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2022 36 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said: They would be, because Rapido could sue because Studio Canal have breached the exclusive rights deal signed. StudioCanal haven't breached anything. Hornby are the ones vigorously swinging the lead. StudioCanal I assume will be popping off a cease and desist letter in due course. It's their business after all. Hopefully Rapido won't be harmed by this. I'm certainly not seeing posts from anyone saying they'll be buying the Hornby one instead. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.C.L. 11 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, adb968008 said: ive never heard of, let alone seen this film.. how much footage of Lion is in it ? I haven't seen the film either and only heard of it with reference to Lion but it's available to rent on Amazon and curiosity may get the better of me soon. I think the consensus is not much screen time for Lion. Being a B&W film how can we know what colour the cover-ups actually were? Were they painted or just pasted over with paper for easy removal? Hope Hornby have done their research! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2022 18 minutes ago, adb968008 said: In that use case is it possible it only lost its name on one side ? ive never heard of, let alone seen this film.. how much footage of Lion is in it ? Here are some stills from Reel Streets (an excellent site if you're into old films) - scroll down to see the relevant view and its location. The film isn;t available online - just a short excerpt to promote the dvd or whatever. This particular sequence was no more than a minute or two as far as i can remember - towards the later part of the film. https://www.reelstreets.com/films/lady-with-a-lamp-the-ready/ 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: here was me thinking that 'its all about detail' - just goes to show that I shouldn't believe anything I see and hear on tv. People say Rapido are more media savvy but Hornby scored a major coup with that program. Shame they're undoing it now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaym481 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, 30801 said: I doubt they're losing much sleep over it. How many sets will be sold? A couple of thousand? Can't imagine the royalties will be huge. I doubt they're losing any sleep, but their lawyers have probably already made a first draft of a C&D letter. Large corporations tend to be very tetchy about their IP. Even to the extent of sending C&D letters to tiny companies that have a product that just sounds similar to one of the corporation's brands. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium RichardT Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 hours ago, knitpick said: But it would seem that even Rapido do not plan to issue that coach from the initial Titfield railway preservation train consist other than as part of a very pricey set. Rapido do plan to issue the coach as a standalone W&U item, as well as in sets. RT 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium RichardT Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2022 57 minutes ago, melmerby said: Most people wouldn't be able to see the difference when used as box art. Possibly "most people" might not, but it's the opinion of whoever arbitrates this dispute that matters. Look at some IP disputes to see how fine the judgements can sometimes be. RT 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: This particular sequence was no more than a minute or two as far as i can remember - towards the later part of the film. Ahem. For educational use only. https://ok.ru/video/1960284785304 @ 1:20:01 Edited January 12, 2022 by Porcy Mane 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, jaym481 said: Large corporations tend to be very tetchy about their IP. Even to the extent of sending C&D letters to tiny companies that have a product that just sounds similar to one of the corporation's brands. They're obliged to. AFAIK if you fail to defend your trademark you can lose it. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said: Ahem. For educational use only. https://ok.ru/video/1960284785304 If it is just the one scene, total screen time for Lion is no more than 45 seconds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, 30801 said: I doubt they're losing much sleep over it. How many sets will be sold? A couple of thousand? Can't imagine the royalties will be huge. It is not about the royalties on this set. It is about the precedent that is set if they do not pursue. If they don't pursue it, it opens the door to other infringers to bypass licencing on other more lucrative items and worse, it would weaken their case in law because the infringer could point to the TT case and say Studiocanal have shown they do not mind infringement of their IP. Edited January 12, 2022 by Andy Hayter 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said: Ahem. For educational use only. @ 1:20:01 is that it ? 21 minutes ago, Titan said: If it is just the one scene, total screen time for Lion is no more than 45 seconds. Its all becoming rather transparent in an opaque kind of way. I might just watch the film though, it looks interesting in its own non-railway merits. Imo, have to wonder if this “lamp” set ever reaches the shelves, or if it exists for other purposes? Edited January 12, 2022 by adb968008 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 22 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said: Ahem. For educational use only. https://ok.ru/video/1960284785304 @ 1:20:01 Blimey, watch the whole film and doze off for a few seconds and you'll likely have missed it! Hornby marketing a train pack on the basis of that tiny appearance is madness. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium RichardT Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Coppercap said: Hornby marketing a train pack on the basis of that tiny appearance is madness. Absolutely - if that was actually their motivation. Better than Eastenders? This is better than Poirot and Foyle’s War* combined! RT *(Other dramas in which the plot is occasionally let down by unconvincingly mocked up railway scenes are available.) Edited January 12, 2022 by RichardT Add a bit 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadnerd Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 49 minutes ago, 30801 said: I'm certainly not seeing posts from anyone saying they'll be buying the Hornby one instead. I was wondering if I could afford one of the TTs, ie Rapido's, now I'm wondering if I can buy two. For those who say they don't understand this type of product, or they won't buy it, fine. But I, and assume others, do. Else they wouldn't exist. And they aren't just dust gathering shelf things. Not all the time anyway! I like fantasy stuff, and BR Blue, and the odd bit of Americana. And yes buy some things just because I'm an anal rententive obsessive compulsive. The 60th anniversary TT was a 1000 run. Many said they didn't like it, and wouldn't buy it. But it sold, and fetches a premium if it's for sale. So there is a market to argue over. I just get the feeling someone is making this model for the love of it, and one... Isn't. But I agree with those that say this shouldn't be Hornby's modus operandi. I'd prefer it if they made bigger runs, at lower prices of 'models' rather than collectables. I want to buy a railroad HST when I want one, not blink and miss it, and buy something used again. It seems SK is thinking more like those catalogues of 'collectables' that appear in my pensioner dad's home, and afternoon TV adverts for worthless coins. I suppose some would say the TT is just the same. But I like railways, old films, and buying crap I don't need. You can sell it when I'm dead. I tell her... Rant over. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldomtom2 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, melmerby said: Any decent artist would be able to make a picture very like, but not identical to, the original. Most people wouldn't be able to see the difference when used as box art. If you have created an almost exact copy you have committed copyright infringement! 48 minutes ago, 30801 said: They're obliged to. AFAIK if you fail to defend your trademark you can lose it. Note that this only applies to trademarks and not copyright. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium RichardT Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, eldomtom2 said: Note that this only applies to trademarks and not copyright. A very worthwhile reminder. Copyright is a property right and exists automatically under the relevant legislation - it doesn’t have to be claimed by or pre-emptively defended by the owner for the right to exist . Similar to Freedom of Information requests to bodies covered by the FOI legislation: any request for information from such a body is *automatically* an FOI request and must be treated as such, including replying within time limits etc. There’s no need when making your request to specifically say “I am requesting this information under the FOI Act.” (That said, with some public bodies it doesn’t do any harm to remind them.) RT 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmorgancym Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, 30801 said: StudioCanal haven't breached anything. Hornby are the ones vigorously swinging the lead. StudioCanal I assume will be popping off a cease and desist letter in due course. It's their business after all. Hopefully Rapido won't be harmed by this. I'm certainly not seeing posts from anyone saying they'll be buying the Hornby one instead. My tenses were a bit awry. I meant if Studio Canal failed to act, the Rapido would have a case that they failed to honour the exclusive rights agreement. Edited January 12, 2022 by Pmorgancym 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmorgancym Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Sitting down with the catalogue, the intro bumf for Trains on Film seems incredibly desperate 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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