Hornby 2022 - Trains on Film

[G-BOAF]

32 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

the state rests, m'lud

Interesting. I'm not sure. We have seen MANY TIMES that models have been improved on second batches as a result of comments from the press and consumers. The most high profile was the awful smokebox door on the first Merchant Navy release. 

Had Hornby done an 'engine shed' style update on the Terriers prior to release and the recess picked up, would it have been in time for correction? Or would it have been a subsequent tooling revision anyway? Who knows.

But I would say those revisions were normal batch 2 corrections and not related to the Terriers being 'rushed'.

[Corbs]

Just trying to collate the learnings and conclusions from this thread, feel free to add more:

There is no mass market for model trains but Hornby appeals to the mass market

Rapido and Hornby started work on the models before Rapido and Hornby

Rapido needs to be in toy shops and newsagents where people who aren't into trains and don't want to buy Titfield sets can puzzle at the boxes before buying Disney stuff

Hornby do need licences to produce film tie-in merch

Hornby do not need licences to produce film tie-in merch

No-one cares about a film that has had re-releases, hundreds of TV broadcasts, a remastering, several documentaries, dedicated model packs that two companies fight over who gets the right to make and gets quoted all the time

[MyRule1]

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

The "reverse images" is to make it colour match with the Continental trains being used. Turkish I think, as they couldn't film behind the Iron Curtain at the time.

I have read elsewhere that this was because that at the time of the film, blue filters were used on cameras to get a night effect, as colour film at the time was not sensitive enough to film in the dark. The by-product of this was that reds became green. This is most noticeable on the buffer beam which is a very strong green. 

[Compound2632]

19 minutes ago, Corbs said:

Just trying to collate the learnings and conclusions from this thread, feel free to add more:

 

Brilliant. That really ought to be pinned! Not that I suppose for one moment it would really give anyone pause for thought before posting their non-professional opinions.

[Legend]

16 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

There's also a Midland signal box at one point!

Zagreb Midland

[Helmdon]

38 minutes ago, Global said:

I’m early 40s and I certainly had never heard of the film before now, or Lion for that matter, so was a bit oblivious to it all until it all kicked off on Monday! 

I'm 41 and my dad taped it off Channel 4 onto Betamax for me in about 1988...

[Andy Hayter]

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

At least one is a Royal Scot.

.

The "reverse images" is to make it colour match with the Continental trains being used. Turkish I think, as they couldn't film behind the Iron Curtain at the time.

 

 

Jason

 

Turkey was never behind the Iron Curtain which stopped at the Southern Bulgarian border.

[adb968008]

13 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

At least one is a Royal Scot.

.

The "reverse images" is to make it colour match with the Continental trains being used. Turkish I think, as they couldn't film behind the Iron Curtain at the time.

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

I thought much of the film was filmed in Istanbul ?

 

certainly ive visited several of the filming locations.

my thoughts are post filming they need some additional footage, and knowing most european stock was green, they used some Uk filming, revesed the colouring to get green to save money on going all the way back again.

 

Besides using a Black 5, would pass for a Turkish 8F.

Edited January 12, 2022 by adb968008

[SamThomas]

10 hours ago, melmerby said:

Perhaps you should look here:

Smyth's Toys, The Entertainer, Argos, Hamleys etc. etc.? (The biggest High St. toy retailers in UK by sales and they all sell Hornby.)

 

Rapido are mainly in model shops that the average person wouldn't visit plus a few heritage lines, which they might.

 

 

20 years ago a good friend of mine worked in the buying department of a large retail park store (no longer trading in the UK).

During negotiations to buy products the supplier was told what the retailer was prepared to pay for X amount of Y - take it or leave it & that applied to all the suppliers. She told me that was common practice with the big retailers.

 

Is it the same now ? I don't know, but some companies may be able to play to that tune & earn a small percentage, others may not - could that (& the household name) be the reasons why you only tend to see one brand in the quoted outlets ?

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

Zagreb Midland

 

Never underestimate the reach of the tentacles of the Derby octopus. There was a puzzling case from the 1860s of a driver who left the Midland's service and some years later was re-employed - contrary to the usual company policy at the time. It turned out he'd been driving on a line in the Ottoman Empire in which several Midland directors had a financial interest - the Varna line I think, now considered the first railway in Bulgaria. It had a strategic political purpose, being designed to frustrate Russian influence.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Compound2632

[30801]

11 hours ago, melmerby said:

Perhaps you should look here:

Smyth's Toys, The Entertainer, Argos, Hamleys etc. etc.? (The biggest High St. toy retailers in UK by sales and they all sell Hornby.)

 

Rapido are mainly in model shops that the average person wouldn't visit plus a few heritage lines, which they might.

 

 

 

Now have a look at what those shops sell. Playtrains and a couple of basic 040 starter sets*. Curiously Hamley's website lists no Hornby at all which I think is a fault. But in any case they only have a dozen or so branches in major cities.

Clearly they're not selling to the wheezing old codgers that might be excited by a Titfield Thunderbolt set.

 

* They might stock a Flying Scotsman nearer Christmas.

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, melmerby said:

The thing I find odd about the whole affair is why Studio Canal would give the licence to Rapido in the first place. (see below*)

If you are a rights holder you want info about your product plastered all over the place.

With Hornby they would get that, all the Hornby Retailers can put up posters and displays relating to the film, it's anniversary and have the tie in products for sale, in the same way all the Star Wars, Frozen etc. film merchandise was available everywhere.

 

What do they get with Rapido?

No retail base in the UK, available at only a few model shops and unknown to Joe Public and much of the toy train market.

I'm puzzled.

 

Rapido will IMHO get a lot more from it than SC.

 

*This is not meant to cast aspersions on Rapido but more to question what Studio Canal might think they are going to get from the tie up.

Simple answer - money.   Broader answer - why not if they are being paid for it?   Question - do you think Rapido would sell fewer examples than Hornby when you realise stuff like this from  Hornby is made is comparatively limited numbers so retailers will get 'allocations' whereas Rapido will make as many as they need to meet retailer and end customer orders. (no doubt plus some spares?) if they follow their normal procedure.

 

So if anybody definitely wants one the obvious one to pre-order is the Rapido model because that way you will definitely get one.

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, Global said:

I’m early 40s and I certainly had never heard of the film before now, or Lion for that matter, so was a bit oblivious to it all until it all kicked off on Monday! 

 

Signs of a misspent youth not watching the endless recycling of old comedies and films on the tv?  I saw the Titfield Thunderbolt many times along with many other Ealing classics as a kid in the 80’s. A trip to the cinema was a rare treat but there was always something on BBC2.  

[Roy Langridge]

13 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

 

Signs of a misspent youth not watching the endless recycling of old comedies and films on the tv?  I saw the Titfield Thunderbolt many times along with many other Ealing classics as a kid in the 80’s. A trip to the cinema was a rare treat but there was always something on BBC2.  

 

I own it on DVD and have watched it several times, as has my middle son. A brilliant film.

 

Roy

[Global]

12 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

 

Signs of a misspent youth not watching the endless recycling of old comedies and films on the tv?  I saw the Titfield Thunderbolt many times along with many other Ealing classics as a kid in the 80’s. A trip to the cinema was a rare treat but there was always something on BBC2.  

Lol. Never been a big tv or film watcher now I think about it! Star Wars was probably about it when I was growing up!  Wanted to be a stormtrooper when I grew up, with hindsight probably not the most lengthy career choice! Haha. 

[The Stationmaster]

10 hours ago, stonojnr said:

 

thats the curious thing to me, its a 70 year old movie, well 69 actually as it didnt come out till 1953, 'Ealing comedies' dont exactly get much of a run out in the local multiplexes or even reruns on tv anymore, and is probably only available in the bargain bin blu-ray/dvd section, what recognition is there for the Titfield Thunderbolt among the general population anymore ? . I can understand the appeal from a modellers aspect keen to have something that might fit in with their layout, as a quirky addition and done well its going to have appeal, and the name might mean more than the actual film did to most.

 

but the average kid fed on a diet of superhero movies and wizards,are they really going to see this and ask for an ancient looking train set from a film thats really from their great grandparents era, that their parents have probably never watched either ?

 

its not like its the train from Harry Potter, or Paddingtons cgi films, or even from a beloved classic childrens film like the Railway children which has an imminent remake, that they might have memories of watching again and again, its maybe not an obscure film, but its not a film alot of people have been watching alot of in this century put it that way is how Id describe it.

 

so it just seems well unlikely that these sets are aimed at anything other than either fans of the film or model rail enthusiasts/collectors.

 

Odd to relate I watched the '70 year old movie' three times last year, and not on a dvd etc but when it was broadcast on tv. I also watched 'The Lady With A Lamp' so saw Lion in that although it had slipped my mind.  I think that so far this year I have watched or watched part of (as I did yesterday evening) more films currently owned by Studio Canal than many people have ever heard of including some made in the 1930s and '40s let alone the '50s and '60s,

 

 I too don't think it is all that likely to appeal to many 'average' , or even far from average, children (let alone young goats ) but I bet it will appeal to some although they will be far from the main market for this sort of thing.  Hornby are no doubt aiming at 'collectors' where they still seem to believe there is a good market (I do wonder a bit about that?) while Rapido very clearly have a section of the enthusiast market very much in mind because that is the market they know and for many in that category Titifield is a much loved film.

 

Incidentally some of these films might, or might not, be available in someone's dvd etc bargain bin but many of them are regularly televised including the Ealing Studios comedies.   All you need to do is look at the 'Radio Times' (numerous alternatives are available) or even the dreaded internet and you don't need to go anywhere near any sort of bargain bin.  In fact if I were to sign up for something now available on the 'net (I think it might even be free of charge) I could watch 'The Titfield Thunderbolt' as often as I liked on my 'puter screen.  Maybe people don't need to get out quite so much? 

[30801]

5 minutes ago, Global said:

Wanted to be a stormtrooper when I grew up, with hindsight probably not the most lengthy career choice! Haha. 

 

Don't worry. You'll still outlive a Star Trek red shirt.

[Phil Parker]

2 hours ago, Global said:

I’m early 40s and I certainly had never heard of the film before now, or Lion for that matter, so was a bit oblivious to it all until it all kicked off on Monday! 

 

30 minutes ago, Global said:

Lol. Never been a big tv or film watcher now I think about it! Star Wars was probably about it when I was growing up!  Wanted to be a stormtrooper when I grew up, with hindsight probably not the most lengthy career choice! Haha. 

 

I think we can see how you are unaware of one of the best films ever made now. (Not THE best, that's Herbie Rides Again, obviously)

[Steamport Southport]

6 hours ago, Vanguard 5374 said:

Wasn’t it shown on BBC Four though? Great for classic forgotten or lesser movies but not exactly Sky Cinema or Netflix for a modern audience, is it? I doubt the average person would have a clue about the movie, it’s got an audience with film and railway enthusiasts, and that’s about it.

 

BBC Two.

 

August Bank Holiday at 2.30PM.

 

So probably had a higher audience than SKY get for anything other than football.

[E100]

For those unaware I'd suggest looking at the other thread on the Titfield Thunderbolt debate within the Rapido section. The recent post by @AY Mod on what was said at the media briefing is very insightful into Hornby's thinking.

  

4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I asked at the press briefing if it was legitimate to do this as it was public knowledge that Rapido Trains had been given an exclusive licence by Studio Canal to produce and market ‘The Titfield Thunderbolt’, he responded by saying “Well, the point is it’s a touch of semantics, it’s not so much as ‘Exclusive’ but what we have produced is what we call ‘Inspired by’. We are not promoting the film ‘The Titfield Thunderbolt’, we’re not using any of their assets as in packaging and all the rest of it. So, the loco exists, the rolling stock exists and, as I say, the key there is that the packs are inspired by the trains that you see on film.”

 

Simon continued, “I think the key thing is, you know, we’re not using any of the branding from the film and that’s the thing; we are producing a model of items that exist”.

 

Simon was asked if there were likely to be any legal issues in this regard; he responded “No, I doubt that very much. You know, you can start going into registration marks and all the rest of it and what class it is in, remember we are producing Class 28 which is classed as toys”.

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

Turkey was never behind the Iron Curtain which stopped at the Southern Bulgarian border.

 

I didn't say it was. Might be worth reading what I did write.

 

The "reverse images" is to make it colour match with the Continental trains being used. Turkish I think, as they couldn't film behind the Iron Curtain at the time.

 

The train is Turkish and then goes into Eastern Europe and turns into a Royal Scot and Black Five. Then it's another Turkish train when in the station masquerading as Zagreb.

 

The film was filmed in partly filmed in Turkey including in the old Hagia Sophia mosque that is now a mosque again.

 

 

Jason

[Global]

16 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

 

I think we can see how you are unaware of one of the best films ever made now. (Not THE best, that's Herbie Rides Again, obviously)

Oh, I do remember watching Herbie! And probably some of the better Carry Ons! Was there some Doctor ones that were similar with, I think, Leslie Philips?!

 

Sorry gone a bit off topic here!

 

Were there any trains in Carry On?! Maybe they could rework a TPO model so that instead of depositing the mail bags a OO gauge Barbara Windsors bra is left hanging on the hook as the train speeds by?! And back on topic! 

[Titan]

6 minutes ago, Global said:

s a OO gauge Barbara Windsors bra is left hanging on the hook as the train speeds by?! And back on topic! 

 

Well it certainly would not be HO!

[Porcy Mane]

T

1 hour ago, Global said:

Sorry gone a bit off topic here!

 

Were there any trains in Carry On?! Maybe they could rework a TPO model so that instead of depositing the mail bags a OO gauge Barbara Windsors bra is left hanging on the hook as the train speeds by?! And back on topic! 

 

"Trains on Film - Mystery Junction"  Good ol Sydney Tafler, playing a goody for once. Yet another murder mystery set almost entirely in a "baggage" car.

 

Starring a Battle of Britain (or it might have been a West Country) on an express from Pickering. 

 

Plenty of mileage Hornby could get from that film. Could even resurrect the old tooling for the utility van. Body being flung from the speeding train anybody?

Edited January 12, 2022 by Porcy Mane

[PhilJ W]

About five Carry on films feature trains.