Run around loops

[Nicholas C]

hi guys a quick question about run a round loops, originally I was told to add one, now people are saying its all wrong. 

i plan to use dmu only but I added a run around loop for interest, were there any train stations that had a run around loop either forward of the station or in a strange position like half in half out I found this picture and it looks like the run around loop is forward of the train station, can anyone advise?

Edited February 13, 2022 by Nicholas C
pictures to small

[Nicholas C]

[JZ]

A lot of branchlines lost their loops when they converted to DMU operation. Bridport and Severn Beach to name but two. The only reason to keep them would be if there was still freight traffic. The picture of Alvescot shows that the loop was being used as a siding. And, of course, Alvescot was a through station.

Edited February 14, 2022 by JZ
spelling

[Nicholas C]

great stuff, I think I will use my run around loop as a siding then, maybe as i only have a class 121 dmu, i added the run around as people kept moaning saying i needed a run a round loop lol

[Kris]

Looe had the loop beyond the station. Trains would arrive from Liskeard, deposit passengers then draw forward to the loop. Running round could then occur  before the train returned to the station ready for the return journey. 

[Wheatley]

Saltburn still has a loop short of the platforms, same (or similar) at Whitby. 

 

Alongside the platform is conventional but there were plenty of exceptions and unusual configurations. 

[Nicholas C]

that's all I needed to know thanks guys, its just know it all's telling me my layout is wrong 

[Pacific231G]

Another good example was Fairford where the run round loop, goods yard and loco shed were all beyond the single platform ,(though in that case there had been plans to extend the line to Cheltenham) . The arrangement in your plan is rather more normal than that. 

I've  never uderstood why Looe was laid out as it was as it put the station further away from the town than it needed to be but I think the very narrow site probably has something to do wiith it.  

 

Don't worry about know alls. I remember one of them loudly proclaiming that a model based on French practice was wrong because "European trains go on the right". The layout's left hand running was of course entirely correct (before anyone asks, it wasn't set in Alsace-Lorraine) 

[melmerby]

Just been looking through "Great Western Stations" (vol1) By RH Clark.

If a single line has a single platform almost inevitably there is a loop away from the platforms, there were loads of them.

[Siberian Snooper]

The stations on the Kingsbridge branch spring to mind.

 

[eastglosmog]

On the East Gloucestershire, only those stations built as passing places (Witney, Bampton and very much later, Carterton) had the platforms on the passing loop.  All the others had the platform before or after the loop.  Although Lechlade became a passing place in 1944,it was not built as such and until then, the loop was effectively a double ended siding as were Alvescot, South Leigh and Eynsham.

[JZ]

The Camerton branch had a few stations with single platforms and a passing loop alongside.

[Rivercider]

Quite often in this scenario the loop is not a passing loop, but is simply a double ended siding

which makes it convenient to be shunted by a train heading in either direction. In that case there

would not be a signal box, but simply a ground frame, or two, to access the siding.

 

There were a number of example on the former LSWR/SR lines in the West Country,

 

cheers

 

[Nicholas C]

thanks guys this is all brilliant information and has helped me a lot, you know what the Facebook warriors are like, I knew there were places that were like my plans, but they kept saying i was wrong, i have just gone and shot them down, they obviously don't know as much about railways as they think they do

[Michael Hodgson]

12 hours ago, Nicholas C said:

great stuff, I think I will use my run around loop as a siding then, maybe as i only have a class 121 dmu, i added the run around as people kept moaning saying i needed a run a round loop lol

 

You don't leave wagons in a run-round loop because you can only run round if the loop is clear! 

You need one at a terminus if you run loco-hauled trains.  Otherwise you have to top and tail the train.

Of course if it used to be a run-round, you could use it as a siding instead - but wagons would have arrived on a goods train, and that would have needed the loop to get the loco and brake van at the right end for the return working,.

Alvescot is a poor example because it wasn't a terminus and its goods loop would have enabled a goods train to be shunted out of the way for another train to pass, provided of course the signalling also catered for this.  If the timetable didn't call for this, you could drop off a couple of wagons into the loop from a passing train, as the run-round would occur at the terminus.

 

The layout at Whitby is quite exceptional, it is there together with special signalling arrangements because of the NYMR loco-hauled services introduced a few years ago.

 

 

[Rivercider]

14 hours ago, Nicholas C said:

great stuff, I think I will use my run around loop as a siding then, maybe as i only have a class 121 dmu, i added the run around as people kept moaning saying i needed a run a round loop lol

Having a passing loop, or loop siding gives you added flexibility. When operating your normal service with your class 121 you do not need to use the loop/siding, so it can be used to stable or unload wagons. If you choose to run a special train that needs a loop to run round then you need to clear the loop/siding first.

There were many secondary lines and branch lines in tourist areas where on high days and holidays goods services would be suspended at weekends and goods stock cleared out to make way for additional passenger services or excursions.

 

cheers 

[RJS1977]

There seems to be an element of confusion here between three different types of loop:

 

* Run-round loop - generally found at branch termini in the steam era. As noted, these would often be removed when the branch went over to multiple unit operation, unless some freight workings remained.

* Passing loop - to allow two trains to pass each other in opposite directions. Sometimes within the station platform, sometimes not. Both have advantages and disadvantages - if a passing loop is in a platform, then passengers can disembark while the train waits for the passing train to arrive. However passing two passenger trains would then require either a second platform, or an island.

* Double ended siding. Again, as noted, some 'loops' were in fact sidings with a connection at both ends, so that wagons could be dropped off on the outbound goods working, unloaded/reloaded, and be picked up on the return working.

 

Sometimes a run-round loop might be found at an intermediate location if that location was a source of a particular freight traffic (e.g. a dairy) to prevent the train having to go to the far end of the branch to run round.

 

A loop may at times serve more than one purpose - for example, a passing loop at a through station may also be used as a run-round loop for terminating services, or for shunting purposes.

[Nicholas C]

I found this image and its exactly like mine, yes I think I could be confused to the meaning  but the explanation above has made it way more clearer for me so I thank everyone who has helped in this matter, I added the what we will call run around loop for flexibility and if I ever wanted steam or freight at a later date, by building it into the plan it will give more options for future use, and rather than not put it in and have to add later.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

5 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

You don't leave wagons in a run-round loop because you can only run round if the loop is clear! 

Different situation to the OP’s, but my local line had several “through” stations with additional terminating platforms, with their own run-round loops. I’ve seen numerous photos of those loops being used as wagon or carriage sidings instead. At those stations though there was probably a pilot on hand to release the incoming locos. 

[F-UnitMad]

5 hours ago, Nicholas C said:

thanks guys this is all brilliant information and has helped me a lot, you know what the Facebook warriors are like, I knew there were places that were like my plans, but they kept saying i was wrong, i have just gone and shot them down, they obviously don't know as much about railways as they think they do

The trouble with know-alls who like to point out other's mistakes is  that they never post any of their work showing how things 'should' done.      

Also, by trying to know less & less about more & more, eventually they know nothing about everything.

[D9020 Nimbus]

58 minutes ago, Nicholas C said:

I found this image and its exactly like mine, yes I think I could be confused to the meaning  but the explanation above has made it way more clearer for me so I thank everyone who has helped in this matter, I added the what we will call run around loop for flexibility and if I ever wanted steam or freight at a later date, by building it into the plan it will give more options for future use, and rather than not put it in and have to add later.

I think this is a photo of the terminus at Barton-on-Humber in steam days.

[melmerby]

26 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Also, by trying to know less & less about more & more, eventually they know nothing about everything.

Or everything about nothing.

[Nicholas C]

Quote

 

hahaha I agree

[Wheatley]

This is Kirkcudbright in SW Scotland, looking from the buffers. The facing point for the run round loop is just visible towards the far end of the platform.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=kirkcudbright+station&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&prmd=mnixv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjp88-49__1AhUxQ0EAHZBRAi0Q_AUoA3oECAIQAw&biw=384&bih=726&dpr=1.88#imgrc=fNUVzcSimik2kM

[Kris]

23 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

The stations on the Kingsbridge branch spring to mind.

 

The loops were considered to be sidings in these cases.